Real concerns

[Henrique 9,133]

some of you people are fucking unbelievable... honestly, we have Oscar and Hazard, Azpilicueta in there today and Bertrand who has had but a handful of starts. As well as Torres upfront. We get a loss against Man Utd and a draw against Liverpool and you are all saying that RDM needs to be sacked. What the fuck is wrong with you..? Some of you really do make it difficult to think that you are anything but plastic fans. Though, we have kind of brought it on ourselves what with the constant sacking and hiring of managers over the past 8 years- all of which have a different philosophy and play style.

Stop the bullshit. Nobody is saying RDM needs to be sacked. The topic is about real concerns, and well, Liverpool, great history, very competitive in the past, but the way we conceded the draw yesterday was really worrying.

[TheCount 146]

You are still missing the point. The ratio is totally not interesting. Why?

Because if you have those choices (on paper) and you dont know who the player is (meaning; you dont know if its Drogba how usually scores in big games) you WILL chose the one that scores the most goals. That is what its all about at the end of the day.

So your saying you'd rather have sturridge then drogba for a final in wembley because on paper Sturridge scored more that season? This is all such wank and semantics, the only way any of this would apply is if you didnt know any of the players and just took it on statistics rather then your opinion and logical conclusion from what you've seen. The fact of the matter is that you think Sturridge is better then Torres and other thinks Torres is better then Sturridge or you have my camp that thinks well their both really bad atm but at least we know what torres COULD do and we also know what sturridge COULD do and if you take that into account, ATM, torres is the choice. You might not agree with that, but its irrelevant since RDM seems to at least share this opinion.

At the end of the day, bitching like a girl because you didnt get your way isnt going to solve the real problem here, that is both are fucking useless atm and we need someone entirely better or just on form. By all means express your opinion but do we really need your nonsensical wank thrown at us every time sturridge dosent start, Torres is still our player and until he isnt our player he needs our support as fans, i dont care if he never scores again we as chelsea fans should have a certain degree of respect for the player until he's dropped or left. And like i always said at least he makes a fucking effort, something ive never seen sturridge do.

[Henrique 9,133]

Yeah, but these reactionary posts are ridiculous and frustrating. People overreact when we win and overreact when we drop points. How can anyone be complaining about RDM at this point?

Its very simple, RDM is developing as manager, this team is still developing as one. When you have a child, perhaps he will do a lot of mistakes because he/she is inexeperienced in a lot of subjects, and as father you should say whats is wrong, but this child still could learn with his/her mistakes.

Its same with RDM, only fans that thinks everything is fine (we have a lot of these guys in this forum), would be blind to not see some of the weak points the team have.

Asking for a a PL trophy in this season perhaps is too much for RDM and his team, but a top 4 finish is an obligation, but I'm sure if we went down to 5th, 6th position, people would say RDM is still the right man, just like we had a lot of this mad thing last season with AVB, even when it was clear that there was no way we would end up in the top 4.

At this point RDM is doing a decent job, but nobody knows how his story will end up. I have to remember that some years ago, Arsenal started a rebuilding process, buying a lot of young players with a lot of potential, and they had players like RVB and Fabregas. In the beginning they were really good, but in the big matches they just failed, and many people thought it was because they lacked the experience, and in the coming seasons they would win some big trophies.

Years passed, and they stayed as a team for the future, so its got to the point that both Fabregas and RVP decided that they had to move to win.

Right now RDM's team is far from a winning side. A lot of young and inexperienced players, and a squad that lacks depth. yesterday it was like Juventus' game. We were the better side for the most part of the game, but in the end the opponent scored goals despite having few chances to do so.

[Henrique 9,133]

The problem with this squad is the lack of experience and strong characters. I was really worried went Terry got injured. Even players like Mata are not the kind of players to lead a team, we had many players like that in the past, with the likes of Ballack, Lampard, Terry, Ricardo Carvalho, Essien, Drogba.

In my opnion the board is not doing a smart job when they are only buying players with 19, 20 years old. This team need a little bit of experience, otherwise it will become the new Arsenal. Good players, attacking football and lack of trophies.

[Laylabelle 9,351]

Yeah Arsenal's issue like you say they think about whats going to happen rather then what is.The team we played in the Carling Cup was on to watch out for and expect things off...they all pretty much have buggered off.Must be just Theo left

Agree with what said.We fell apart when JT left really.And with Ashley Cole and Lampard contract running out need to get that sorted.Man U have done well mixing old and young

Think we can win something this season.Probably not the Champions League or League League but FA or Carling Cup at least hopfully.

[LayZ 201]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP,couldn't have said it any better myself...Sometimes I feel a little guilty as a Chelsea supporter when young players don't make it at the club...more for the ones we buy than for the ones who come through the ranks of our academy...

Just consider the case of Gael Kakuta..he came to us in 2007,apparently after his 1st appearance for the reserves alongside Michael Ballack,the German legend said of him - "Go see the French lad, he is the star"...and since then he has played under 6 or 7 different managers...Carlo was quite impressed with Kakuta and the lad could probably have flourished under him...uncertailnty and instability is the last thing young players need to harness their fledgling potentials...

It would be a crying shame if at least one of Mata,Oscar or Hazard don't win the Ballon d'or one day,we would have done a great disservice to world football...

[LDN Blue 7,903]

tbh, we are riding on individual brilliance. you saw how shakhtar played. well drilled and clever off the ball running to create space and shoot. we are exactly the opposite of that. static on the attack. playing the ball to feet. lack of off-the-ball movement. we are nowhere near full capacity but 1/3rds into the season, I worry if we'll ever reach the full capacity this season

I still think it's the whole gelling process. They've done it very well on individual merits, especially Oscar. I have optimism that continuing into a season we'll see more tactically attacking movements - Things that seem as if they have been practiced off the pitch. What we're doing now is working, we are keeping the pace in the race to the title but there has to be an emergence of some structure.

Did we just drop into the relegation zone after last night's draw? Honestly, judging from some of the responses, you would think we are in the bottom 3 and not in the top 3. All this reaction is just needless. We just had an off day in front of goal yesterday. It happens and on another day, those chances could have easily gone in and we would have won the game comfortably.

There's actually some valid points within the post though. It doesn't look like a knee-jerk to me because it's an issue even when we win.. I see no wrong in openly discussing the faults the squad presents. It's not fair to be so dismissive of most of the posts.

[Jase 43,479]

There's actually some valid points within the post though. It doesn't look like a knee-jerk to me because it's an issue even when we win.. I see no wrong in openly discussing the faults the squad presents. It's not fair to be so dismissive of most of the posts.

I never said all the responses. Only mentioned some. And another thing, I agree we do have some issues that need to be sorted out but why no one brought it up when we were winning games? I mean it's not like the problems just suddenly appeared in the last week or so. Some of them were already evident for weeks or even months now!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I never said all the responses. Only mentioned some. And another thing, I agree we do have some issues that need to be sorted out but why no one brought it up when we were winning games? I mean it's not like the problems just suddenly appeared in the last week or so. Some of them were already evident for weeks or even months now!

Some issues were brought up but were dismissed with the claim of "don't fix what's not broken", well now it is broken and I don't see why we shouldn't discuss these issues.

I have to agree with most of the opening post by BL, especially the part about offensive plans. Against Liverpool and against QPR we seemed to just run out of ideas. I am probably repeating what's already been said in this thread but Mata, Oscar, Hazard, as brilliant as they may be, still need a lot of guidance. They are young players who need to be pushed in order to develop more.

[Jase 43,479]

Some issues were brought up but were dismissed with the claim of "don't fix what's not broken", well now it is broken and I don't see why we shouldn't discuss these issues.

Even now, they are still being dismissed...

I have to agree with most of the opening post by BL, especially the part about offensive plans. Against Liverpool and against QPR we seemed to just run out of ideas.

Would like to think the Shakhtar game took a lot out of the players and that led to the tiredness late on against Liverpool. And RDM's lack of rotation is affecting us as well. As for the game against QPR, RDM started the game with a defensive lineup and that pretty much speaks for itself. We looked to contain rather to attack then given the circumstances between Terry and Anton.

I am probably repeating what's already been said in this thread but Mata, Oscar, Hazard, as brilliant as they may be, still need a lot of guidance. They are young players who need to be pushed in order to develop more.

Yeah but that will still take time. Can't just expect major developments in the space of 4 months and let's not forget that this is Hazard and Oscar's first season in English football. As for Mata, we are already seeing improvement from him. He's playing with much better players now than last season and we can see the result especially in this new style of football that we're adopting.

[Styles 9,790]

I agree with some points that the OP had made but he has exaggerated a bit.

The best point is that we don't have any rehearsed moves and patterns of play. We are a much weaker side than we should be because of the lack of a 'playbook' so to speak. Look at Shakhtar for instance, that was a very well drilled team that has worked hard in training. But with so many games to play, almost every three days, and with a smallish squad just how much training can be done? And even the days in-between games are being used to recuperate and travel.

As for Hazard and Oscar they're only 21. They will fulfil their potential and become superstars but it's going to take more than 3 months of their first season at Chelsea. And besides they haven't done too badly have they? They have impressive stats so far and have both put in terrific performances. And I disagree strongly with the idea that Ferguson would turn Hazard into a superstar. He wouldn't know what to do with him. He'd probably try to turn him into a winger who just pumps balls into the box from wide areas. Look at how he has been with Kagawa, he barely know what to do with him.

The reality is we're still a team in transition. We have some terrific pieces like Oscar and Hazard that we can build around for the long-term. Compare that to last season when were crying out for players of that quality. Our squad rebuilding is far from complete and I wouldn't be surprised if we do get a new manager who does have a playbook.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

So your saying you'd rather have sturridge then drogba for a final in wembley because on paper Sturridge scored more that season? This is all such wank and semantics, the only way any of this would apply is if you didnt know any of the players and just took it on statistics rather then your opinion and logical conclusion from what you've seen. The fact of the matter is that you think Sturridge is better then Torres and other thinks Torres is better then Sturridge or you have my camp that thinks well their both really bad atm but at least we know what torres COULD do and we also know what sturridge COULD do and if you take that into account, ATM, torres is the choice. You might not agree with that, but its irrelevant since RDM seems to at least share this opinion.

At the end of the day, bitching like a girl because you didnt get your way isnt going to solve the real problem here, that is both are fucking useless atm and we need someone entirely better or just on form. By all means express your opinion but do we really need your nonsensical wank thrown at us every time sturridge dosent start, Torres is still our player and until he isnt our player he needs our support as fans, i dont care if he never scores again we as chelsea fans should have a certain degree of respect for the player until he's dropped or left. And like i always said at least he makes a fucking effort, something ive never seen sturridge do.

No, if you read what I wrote again you would understand that what I mean was exacly the opposite (regarding Drogba). If you have 2 unknown players you will OF COURSE chose the one who misses more but scores more, because at the end of the day, whoever scores most goals win. Simple as.

And regarding Sturridge, you are missing the point here. The point is we dont fucking know if Torres is better than Danny or if its the other way around because STURRIDGE ISNT GETTING ANY CHANCES. How the fuck can u say that Torres is better than Danny? If Danny was given 2-3 starts THEN we could judge him. The reason im "nagging" about wanting him to play is so we can see what the fuck he has, what he can do. We wont get that if he only gets a few minutes here and there. And considering who we have to drop for Danny to get more playtime, its pretty obvious, i mean its not like we will bench Messi...

And of course you see Torres doing more effoirt and working harder because he's playing and Danny isnt!! Jesus Christ....

[Henrique 9,133]

I never said all the responses. Only mentioned some. And another thing, I agree we do have some issues that need to be sorted out but why no one brought it up when we were winning games? I mean it's not like the problems just suddenly appeared in the last week or so. Some of them were already evident for weeks or even months now!

Very simple, because these people would say: "its not time to criticize the team, we just won 3 points, and thats what matters";

[TheCount 146]

No, if you read what I wrote again you would understand that what I mean was exacly the opposite (regarding Drogba). If you have 2 unknown players you will OF COURSE chose the one who misses more but scores more, because at the end of the day, whoever scores most goals win. Simple as.

And regarding Sturridge, you are missing the point here. The point is we dont fucking know if Torres is better than Danny or if its the other way around because STURRIDGE ISNT GETTING ANY CHANCES. How the fuck can u say that Torres is better than Danny? If Danny was given 2-3 starts THEN we could judge him. The reason im "nagging" about wanting him to play is so we can see what the fuck he has, what he can do. We wont get that if he only gets a few minutes here and there. And considering who we have to drop for Danny to get more playtime, its pretty obvious, i mean its not like we will bench Messi...

And of course you see Torres doing more effoirt and working harder because he's playing and Danny isnt!! Jesus Christ....

You just said what you said the first time, by your logic you shouldnt pick drogba based on scoring while i would know take him in a big game regardless, for experience and the like.

Sturridge has been giving chances, not as many but he has and he hasnt impressed or made an effort, Torres at least makes the effort, most of the time.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

You guys worry to much. The players and manager knows what to be done, just chill. Positives can be taken from games even if you don't get results. Check out West Brom, flying high and playing really great football.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

You just said what you said the first time, by your logic you shouldnt pick drogba based on scoring while i would know take him in a big game regardless, for experience and the like.

Sturridge has been giving chances, not as many but he has and he hasnt impressed or made an effort, Torres at least makes the effort, most of the time.

You cant be this dumb can you? Of course I would pick Drogba. But the discussion wasnt about him. Nor was the example. What I meant was if you have to unknown and identical players, you would chose player A over player B according to the below:

Player A: Misses 1000, but scores 20.

Player B: Misses 100, but scores 5.

My point is that the ratio isnt interesting, because at the end of the day player A scores more. HOWEVER, im not stuipid and of course those 5 goals can be alot more important than the 20. But again, thats now what the discussion was about.

Regarding Sturridge, no, he hasnt been given chances. Not many enough, and not for long enough. Simple as. How many minutes has he played as CF actually? You cannot argue that considering whos spot he'd take, there isnt much to loser (rather gain) by giving him more chances.

[didierforever 7,349]

Sturridge has been giving chances, not as many but he has and he hasnt impressed or made an effort, Torres at least makes the effort, most of the time.

and continuing your awesome assessment i ll say :

turnbull is a much better keeper than cech.

mata sucks and should be sold, infact release him from his contract.

and to top it off marin has so far been a better buy than hazard and oscar combined.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Its very simple, RDM is developing as manager, this team is still developing as one. When you have a child, perhaps he will do a lot of mistakes because he/she is inexeperienced in a lot of subjects, and as father you should say whats is wrong, but this child still could learn with his/her mistakes.

Its same with RDM, only fans that thinks everything is fine (we have a lot of these guys in this forum), would be blind to not see some of the weak points the team have.

No, it's exactly the opposite. When you are a parent, you need to educate your children because you have more experience in life and because you know more than they do. All of us here know significantly less than RDM in every aspect of football. Yes, there are concerns we all have and but it's the combination of panicking and extreme arrogance as if we, who have vastly less knowledge of what's happening and infinitely less experience in football, we really know what needs to be done that's so bothersome.

And yes, everything is fine if you have the proper perspective. We are trying to build a team long-term and we are heading in the right direction. A year ago, the post-Mourinho core years looked like they would be a disaster. Now, if you look at Chelsea's future it looks bright. The spoiled kid aspect of it is infuriating. If the discussion were just "what I think Chelsea should be trying to do" it'd be different, but it isn't. It's always, "buy this expensive player" or "get this expensive manager" which is actually the opposite of a serious discussion of the issues we have. Look at this thread, there are some valid points, but there's also criticism of RDM because he isn't good enough at developing young players? That's just absolute nonsense and shows the incredible lack of patience and perspective too many Chelsea fans have. Hazard isn't the best player in the Premier League 10 games into his career so RDM isn't good at developing young talent? Don't people realise that having excellent potential does not mean that you will become a fantastic player immediately (or ever)? People think that every promising player we buy is going to turn out to be Messi or something. If you expected more out of Oscar, Bertrand , Hazard, and Moses at this point (like the author of this thread did) then the fault is down to you, not RDM.

If people want to have serious discussions about what they think Chelsea should be doing to improve the squad, then I'm all for it.Those are fun and engaging. However, there is very little of this. Instead, it's mostly just people ripping on the players they hate, trying to assign blame for everything that goes wrong, and attempting to construct fantasy lineups.