Real concerns

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Some posters are just unbelievable , i have always chosen to ignore some posts but the amount of posters who are plain ignorant , reliant on the fact that Di Matteo has more experience so he must have more football knowledge than you all combined is ridiculous.

Why don't we just admit the fact that the only players who we are seeing the best of are Mata & Ramires , Hazard can be miles better than that if he was given encouragement & guidance on when to dribble , to improve his finishing.

Oscar should be encouraged to shoot more and instructed to take places right in-front of the box waiting for a rebound (you always find Mata doing that but he is very wasteful from that position).

The team's off-the ball movement is purely instinctive and obviously based on no specific instructions , which is why we have rarely scored from the impressive link-up play as in most cases players get to the question of what's next , their instincts can't answer all of the questions on field.

Those are just examples , i don't know how a manager should handle and develop them into world-class substance because it's his job , and as a fan when i watch games i want to see this improvement on field.

My biggest concern is that a player like Hazard for instance is not half the player he was last year for Lille or at this season's beginning , to say he is slowly improving is the real non-sense.

This is exactly what's so exasperating. Oh no, we don't know anything. We are all so ignorant. RDM doesn't know anything. he's an idiot. The board are all idiots. Only you, random poster on the internet, can see the truth and anyone who disagrees with you is blind....the truth is that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're saying that Hazard is half the player he was at Lille? Well, Lille is a massive step down from the Premier League. Drogba was a Chelsea legend and it took him about a year and a half to get used to the Premier League (and he was 24-25). Hazard is not anymore the dominant player on a poor side, he's just one player on a top side. On Lille last year, he had double the shots of anyone else on the team. The squad was largely built around him. He was never going to have that sort of role on any good squad. You think the Manchester teams would have built their team around Hazard? They wouldn't. You think he'd be some kind of unstoppable force if he were on a different team? What kind of player will Hazard be in England? NOBODY knows but he's developing very well. He's 21 and played 19 games with Chelsea and has 3 goals and 10 assists and you're whining about it. How do you know how good Hazard "can be"? You don't. It's based entirely on how good you hoped he would be which was obviously an entirely unrealistic expectation.

You really think that if it were so simple to improve the team, Chelsea wouldn't be doing it? You think that with their dossiers of information and hundreds of hours of tape, they don't know what you know? There are problems, but they are not easily fixable. They are going to take time. There are legitimate criticisms of any coach, but criticizing RDM for not developing young players is borderline insane and based on nothing except a fantasy of what young players should be bringing to the game.

[Rmpr 8,977]

@TorontoChelsea, do you agree that if it was 2-1 we would see totally different posts?

I mean, if we had scored one of the many chances we had I think we would see positive reactions: "really close to manurre, nice job RDM", "transition mode and 1 point behind", "a striker shy of a perfect team", etc.

People tend to direct their opinions by the outcome of the game, they forget to impartially analyse the aspects of the team. Of course it is not everyone, but some members do it all the time. We cant be doing great at one end and not so good at ohters. It is either everything or nothing...

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

@TorontoChelsea, do you agree that if we had scored from our many chances we would see totally different posts?

I mean, Chelsea 2-1 Loserpool. I think we would see positive reactions: "really close to manurre, nice job RDM", "transition mode and 1 point behind", "a striker shy of a perfect team", etc.

People tend to direct their opinions by the outcome of the game, they forget to neutrally analyse the aspects of the team. Of course it is not everyone, but some members do it all the time.

100%. People were going crazy when we won a few games in a row but it was obvious that we had the same issues. The problem has generally not been us being wasteful, it's in us not creating chances. For a few weeks, we were scoring on virtually every chance we got and that was simply not sustainable. Same thing with the Shakhtar game. If Moses doesn't score, people would have gone ballistic, but he does score, so they're overjoyed. Obviously, the goal changes the result, but it doesn't much change the analysis of what we did right and what we did wrong.

[Rmpr 8,977]

100%. People were going crazy when we won a few games in a row but it was obvious that we had the same issues. The problem has generally not been us being wasteful, it's in us not creating chances. For a few weeks, we were scoring on virtually every chance we got and that was simply not sustainable. Same thing with the Shakhtar game. If Moses doesn't score, people would have gone ballistic, but he does score, so they're overjoyed. Obviously, the goal changes the result, but it doesn't much change the analysis of what we did right and what we did wrong.

We really were with an unsustainable convert ratio, but last game Oscar and Mata had to score those chances. It would have killed the game.

I think our problem lies defensively, but not individual performance, group work instead. We do not have a clear defensive role for everybody (if we do we are not performing it). This leaves our midfield vunerable to any width or possession team, making our defense extremely overloaded. It also makes our attacking trio to be out of position in the counters. I am too lazy to post pretty pictures to show off, but you can clearly see the disorganization in our transition.

There is also the identity crysis, are we a possession (Barcelona) or a speed killer (Real and Bayern) team?

The problem is I do not know how to solve this. It might be by playing wingers with a passing and ball control pivot, one formation for attack and defense, not enough training, lack of leadership, bad coaching, etc. Maybe it is a bit of everything, I have no clue.

[communicate 2,703]

100%. People were going crazy when we won a few games in a row but it was obvious that we had the same issues. The problem has generally not been us being wasteful, it's in us not creating chances. For a few weeks, we were scoring on virtually every chance we got and that was simply not sustainable. Same thing with the Shakhtar game. If Moses doesn't score, people would have gone ballistic, but he does score, so they're overjoyed. Obviously, the goal changes the result, but it doesn't much change the analysis of what we did right and what we did wrong.

Excellent post.

I think I had similar discussion with somebody in this forum a couple months ago.

Somebody posted number that showed that we were actually average in term of chance creation in EPL but

we have been very clinical in term of converting our chances.

[didierforever 7,349]

This however is truly stupid. Least the other lad is in some sort of denile about it.

no, your comment that torres is better than sturridge was stupid. tell me what is the playing time that sturridge has got this season especially when u take out that 1 carling cup game. and still u said torres is better than sturridge, how? as i see it sturridge has one start in this season and got a goal in that match, can u say the same of torres.

and then u said something about EFFORT.torres puts in more EFFORT than sturridge. how did u make that assessment. and what effort are we talking about. this stat will show u his true effort : Torres touched the ball 42 times against liverpool, 26 of them directly resulted in a turnover, goal kick, or opponents throw. he plays for himself not the club.

[nachikethas 1,149]

this is when u realise the need for old stars... getting rid of lampard will be a huge blow...

[Styles 9,790]

Some posters are just unbelievable , i have always chosen to ignore some posts but the amount of posters who are plain ignorant , reliant on the fact that Di Matteo has more experience so he must have more football knowledge than you all combined is ridiculous.

Why don't we just admit the fact that the only players who we are seeing the best of are Mata & Ramires , Hazard can be miles better than that if he was given encouragement & guidance on when to dribble , to improve his finishing.

Oscar should be encouraged to shoot more and instructed to take places right in-front of the box waiting for a rebound (you always find Mata doing that but he is very wasteful from that position).

The team's off-the ball movement is purely instinctive and obviously based on no specific instructions , which is why we have rarely scored from the impressive link-up play as in most cases players get to the question of what's next , their instincts can't answer all of the questions on field.

Those are just examples , i don't know how a manager should handle and develop them into world-class substance because it's his job , and as a fan when i watch games i want to see this improvement on field.

My biggest concern is that a player like Hazard for instance is not half the player he was last year for Lille or at this season's beginning , to say he is slowly improving is the real non-sense.

You talk about encouragement and guidance but you're neglecting experience and self-motivation too.

For example Oscar missed a good chance against Liverpool with his left foot. He didn't look entirely comfortable taking the shot. I believe a player as smart as him knows he will have to work on that. But things like that take time. You can't do it over a weekend.

You make valid points but you're also impatient. Transition and improvement aren't just buzzwords, they're very real stages in a club and players development. Hazard and Oscar will be better at 23, 24, 25 than they are at 21 if they can avoid serious injuries.

Players don't reach their full potential at 21. Just be a little patient and enjoy watching them grow. I'd rather watch the journey AND the final product as opposed to just watching players/clubs at their peak. It's much better that way, trust me.

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

Double post

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

I love Robbie, think he's a legend, hell he is a legend. He's a great man manager and seemingly a great motivator BUT tactically I think hes being found wanting. His substitutions are predictable and often too late in the game and he seems unable to change us when necessary. We seem to have a real problem dealing with any sort of pressure and no lesson was seemingly learnt in the shaktar game when we should have known what was coming our way.As the original poster said we have 3 outstandingly talented midfielders who link well together at times and in time and with games they will get even better but there does look to be a lack of direction for them at times. I'm also concerned with robbies hesitation to take off under performers the next game. David luiz is a real liability at times and big gaz is a more solid defender and greater goal threat and would be my starter every time. As for torres ,sigh, not much we can do till January. Still think we need to stick with Robbie but just think a defeat or 2 or a few more draws will see big Rom down at cobham for "talks". Should remember though that this is essentially the progress from joses Chelsea to the new Chelsea, the flair playing Chelsea and we are still only 3 behind the scum and joint top of our CL group. No panic needed yet

[RamiCFC9 258]

There's a difference between football legend, a nice guy and a good manager.Some people just yet can't see it, well you will and I bet it won't be long time in future.

[BLionheart 516]

This is exactly what's so exasperating. Oh no, we don't know anything. We are all so ignorant. RDM doesn't know anything. he's an idiot. The board are all idiots. Only you, random poster on the internet, can see the truth and anyone who disagrees with you is blind....the truth is that you have no idea what you're talking about. You're saying that Hazard is half the player he was at Lille? Well, Lille is a massive step down from the Premier League. Drogba was a Chelsea legend and it took him about a year and a half to get used to the Premier League (and he was 24-25). Hazard is not anymore the dominant player on a poor side, he's just one player on a top side. On Lille last year, he had double the shots of anyone else on the team. The squad was largely built around him. He was never going to have that sort of role on any good squad. You think the Manchester teams would have built their team around Hazard? They wouldn't. You think he'd be some kind of unstoppable force if he were on a different team? What kind of player will Hazard be in England? NOBODY knows but he's developing very well. He's 21 and played 19 games with Chelsea and has 3 goals and 10 assists and you're whining about it. How do you know how good Hazard "can be"? You don't. It's based entirely on how good you hoped he would be which was obviously an entirely unrealistic expectation.

You really think that if it were so simple to improve the team, Chelsea wouldn't be doing it? You think that with their dossiers of information and hundreds of hours of tape, they don't know what you know? There are problems, but they are not easily fixable. They are going to take time. There are legitimate criticisms of any coach, but criticizing RDM for not developing young players is borderline insane and based on nothing except a fantasy of what young players should be bringing to the game.

Thanks for pointing those facts out , i don't know what i was thinking !! this is Chelsea FC so their manager must be faultless so does their board , who are we to doubt any single decision of a CFC manager or board , madness right , i mean what's next ..... there may actually come the day where people start criticizing one of the 3 maestros !!!!

Pathetic

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Thanks for pointing those facts out , i don't know what i was thinking !! this is Chelsea FC so their manager must be faultless so does their board , who are we to doubt any single decision of a CFC manager or board , madness right , i mean what's next ..... there may actually come the day where people start criticizing one of the 3 maestros !!!!

Pathetic

I never said that the board or the manager is faultless. This is a strawman that you've created. There are legitimate criticisms of our board and of RDM, but criticizing any manager for not being able to develop young talent after 10 games is ridiculous. Criticizing the same manager for not being able to develop talent despite the fact that the young talent is developing very well is even more ridiculous. Young talent takes years to develop. Cristiano Ronaldo took three-four years under SAF,Robin Van Persie took years. before he developed into an excellent player. Drogba took years. That's the way football works.

[Magic Lamps 11,453]

Back to that Plan B. Our 4-2-3-1 is not only a striker shy of perfection but also a decent pivot. Mikel and Ramires look average in a pivot, cos both are better in a mid-three.

We need to apply a fuckin 4-3-3 at times. imagine 2 or even all three of our maestros are not available or must be rested, it would be pointless to play a 4-2-3-1. But in a 4-3-3 Ramires pace and engine is more of a weapon than at double pivot and we could use Lamps diagonal balls, late runs and finishing again, which have carried us for 10 years. It also would put Mikel in his natural position between two CMs.

[RamiCFC9 258]

Let's buy RDM 5 more world beaters in order to have more possession then liverpool at home..Look at the teams we struggled they hardly have half the talent and money we got but are learnt to play in some way(Swansea, Shakhtar) or atleast are trying to develop (Liverpool).Again what are we doing ? What style of play are we developing ?You can hardly find answers for those questions.

[TheCount 146]

no, your comment that torres is better than sturridge was stupid. tell me what is the playing time that sturridge has got this season especially when u take out that 1 carling cup game. and still u said torres is better than sturridge, how? as i see it sturridge has one start in this season and got a goal in that match, can u say the same of torres.

and then u said something about EFFORT.torres puts in more EFFORT than sturridge. how did u make that assessment. and what effort are we talking about. this stat will show u his true effort : Torres touched the ball 42 times against liverpool, 26 of them directly resulted in a turnover, goal kick, or opponents throw. he plays for himself not the club.

Your post was stupid. Nothing you said in it had any relevance to what i had said. This post is better, still as stupid, but at least its on topic.

[Miguelito 459]

i made a topic trying to get people to relax and be realistic in where we should be right now and i stand by that i am proud of where we are, but we do have problems

Obviously, the striker position is a main problem because torres just obviously isnt getting the job done and needs to be in the right position so much more often that it's embarrassing, but i dont want to talk about torres. that debate is old and useless

A deep-lying playmaker is necessary for us and would help alleviate all sorts of problems. We need someone who starts attacks and makes plays from there. we need a playmaker in the double pivot. I think that once rami and mikel get the ball, our 3 attacking midfielders have to come too deep to receive the ball and then just dribble up towards the opposing defenders. by the time we get in to really attacking positions, the defense is already set and we dont have too much to do. I think this is why we have had problems creating chances.

if we had someone who could really pass and even find a killer pass from deep, it would make us so much less predictable and the 3 attacking midfielders could stay higher up the pitch. We have to transition from defense to attack faster for us to be more successful and we cant do that with mikel and rami in there. as much as i love them and know that they are giving great individual performances, we need another type of player to help how the team plays. Once of the 3 maestros drops deep to get the ball it creates a problem. we dont have enough options to pass the ball forward. the opposition has enough people back they can man mark or even double team players.

i think teams have started to figure out that if they pressure our double pivot and make them get rid of quickly then it greatly reduces our chances of attacking successfully. if they continuously press them, then hazard, mata, and oscar have to come deeper quicker and therefore eventually stay deeper in general during the game.

The last thing is that we should start to press higher up the field. if we do this right, we can win the ball higher up the pitch and counter a lot faster. i think moses would help a lot in this sense because he is built for the counter and he would be a great outlet for it. this will also allow our 3 attackign midfielders to stay in a more natural and attacking position. this is my view on it anyways and i think that kdb would be perfect for the double pivot so i dont want us to buy anyone else for. oscar could do the job there now too.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Deep-lying playmaker would solve a lot of problems imo. While the Mikel-Ramires duo has performed admirably, a player like Modric next to Mikel would take a lot of pressure off of the 3 maestros and would allow them to do their thing without having to drop deep to get the ball.

The player who loses out would be Ramires as he would be stuck with substitutions and the odd start, but our team would be in a lot better shape with a deep-lying playmaker.