Victor Moses

[carayip 15]

If you judge a player only for his performance for Chelsea, how could you say Willian is amazing?

Can you see the word think in the sentence? I don't know in Hong Kong, but around here 'think' means something you guess will happen, not a fact. He's an amazing player - something I don't think Moses is btw - and I said I think he'll prove himself in the team. Should I draw now, or it is clear enough for you? Also did you ignore the part I said that André and Kevin alone proved they fit the team better or were you only worried about nitpicking (badly)?

So what you "think" can overshadow the fact that Moses has done more for Chelsea or for other teams in the EPL than Willian? Until Willian proves otherwise, Moses is the more amazing EPL player. How could you deny that?

[Tomo 21,685]

Now i can understand the annoyance with the Sturridge situation because of our striking problems but Moses? i dont understand.

Moses was a good squad player last season, inconsistent, frustrating, but capable of a very good game. But is he better than any of the six we currently have? no, Liverpool is his stepping stone to try and force his way back in.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think it will be fair to say we can compare how the others do in comparison to Moses last year at the end of the season, he got 11 or 12 goals in all competitions without starting many games which is pretty impressive, having players who can play every now and then that can get that sort of numbers is pretty good. Even if we compare his stats from his Liverpool loan to the others, still a bit annoyed he went to Pool but Rodgers could make him better, even though I reckon Jose could have as well.

OptaJoe ‏@OptaJoe 4h

1 - On his Liverpool debut Victor Moses has matched his Premier League goals total for Chelsea (in 23 apps)

on the other hand he had one goal in EPL in 23 matches... so yeah, I guess that maybe is concerning, don't you think? I know we play other competitions too, but I refuse to use EL stats for anything because we should never consider that our Europe competition (although it's funny we'll face both Basel and Steua in Champions League - but then again group stage can be a snooze fest since UEFA changed the rules and we have these likes spread in many groups).

So if a player can't perform in our biggest competition (maybe not in importance, but because it's the longest one - although I'm one of those people that consider the national league to be as important as the European), he presents a problem for us. We can't have players only for UCL or only for English Cups... the UCL issue is that sometimes we face Steua and Basel and sometimes we face Juve and Shakhtar and while he scored the saving goal against Shakhtar last year (in the 3x2 home win), I still think it's too little for us to think we have the player we need for the position.

Also, all this is personal and subjective. I'd rather have a player that plays at least level 7.0 at all matches (having a 8.0-match once in a while) than a guy that plays a 8.5-9.0 match and then a collection of 5.0-6.0 matches. I choose consistency over the guy that plays one good match and two invisible (and imo Moses's proportion was much worse than that). So that's why I like André better. He fits well in the system Mourinho has in place and he's constant - in the good and in the bad, and that's already impressive because the guy is adapting to a completely different league, so I think the most normal is for those guys to have seasons like Oscar had, playing one match well and a bunch being invisible. André for only 4-5 matches with us is showing that with time the position will be his to be taken.

Moses should leave for the sake of his own future, just like Sturridge did.

He deserves playing time and a bit of faith from the manager, because he's a solid player.

I also agree with that.

So what you "think" can overshadow the fact that Moses has done more for Chelsea or for other teams in the EPL than Willian? Until Willian proves otherwise, Moses is the more amazing EPL player. How could you deny that?

sweetie, let me be very didactic with you. I said Kevin de Bruyne and André Schürrle alone prove that Moses should leave because they showed - even with few matches - that they fit our system better, I said clearly WILLIAN OR NO WILLIAN, he should have left. That means that even if Willian didn't join, there was no space for Moses. Then I also commentated that Willian is an amazing player who may end up being among the starting 11. He may not. André is going to be fierce competition.

Now, do you understand it? Because I'm out of resources to try to make you understand what I stated so clearly in a five-sentence post.

[Reddish-Blue 2,236]

Now i can understand the annoyance with the Sturridge situation because of our striking problems but Moses? i dont understand.

Moses was a good squad player last season, inconsistent, frustrating, but capable of a very good game. But is he better than any of the six we currently have? no, Liverpool is his stepping stone to try and force his way back in.

To be fair, I don't see Moses coming back to Chelsea.

He's effectively behind three players in the pecking order for the RW position..and two of those players have a much more well-rounded skill set compared to Moses.

[OneMoSalah 8,619]

on the other hand he had one goal in EPL in 23 matches... so yeah, I guess that maybe is concerning, don't you think? I know we play other competitions too, but I refuse to use EL stats for anything because we should never consider that our Europe competition (although it's funny we'll face both Basel and Steua in Champions League - but then again group stage can be a snooze fest since UEFA changed the rules and we have these likes spread in many groups).

So if a player can't perform in our biggest competition (maybe not in importance, but because it's the longest one - although I'm one of those people that consider the national league to be as important as the European), he presents a problem for us. We can't have players only for UCL or only for English Cups... the UCL issue is that sometimes we face Steua and Basel and sometimes we face Juve and Shakhtar and while he scored the saving goal against Shakhtar last year (in the 3x2 home win), I still think it's too little for us to think we have the player we need for the position.

Also, all this is personal and subjective. I'd rather have a player that plays at least level 7.0 at all matches (having a 8.0-match once in a while) than a guy that plays a 8.5-9.0 match and then a collection of 5.0-6.0 matches. I choose consistency over the guy that plays one good match and two invisible (and imo Moses's proportion was much worse than that). So that's why I like André better. He fits well in the system Mourinho has in place and he's constant - in the good and in the bad, and that's already impressive because the guy is adapting to a completely different league, so I think the most normal is for those guys to have seasons like Oscar had, playing one match well and a bunch being invisible. André for only 4-5 matches with us is showing that with time the position will be his to be taken.

I think its unfair to say Moses played a good game one week then a few games where he was very poor, before he went to the AFCON he was one of our best players at times. Not bad for a squad player eh? He may have only scored the one PL goal but his goals against Shakhtar at the time was a winning goal and his goals in the Europa League were vital to us winning games at times.

I also want to dispute that Moses doesn't fit in Mourinho's system, Moses is a direct, pacey, strong, physical player, these attributes you could link to a Mourinho team (he had similar attributes in certain players at his other clubs; Ronaldo at Real, Eto'o at Inter, Drogba at Chelsea) Moses was loaned out after Abramovich went and wasted 30m on Willian who may be a good player, but nothing we don't already have in Mata, Hazard and Oscar. I really feel for Moses, Di Matteo was desperate to sign him and after an excellent pre-season under Jose hes been shipped out on loan when you could say that he outperformed the likes of Schurrle and Hazard. Sure pre-season means nothing but Jose even went on record and praised Moses during the tour and said he'd get games. Its a strange one still I'm hoping Moses can get a chance at some point, think he deserved slightly better after his pre-season performances.

I'm certain Schurrle, Kevin, Hazard etc are all better than Moses, 110% certain but he was certainly a decent player who would have gotten minutes if we hadn't needlessly signed Willian.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think its unfair to say Moses played a good game one week then a few games where he was very poor, before he went to the AFCON he was one of our best players at times. Not bad for a squad player eh? He may have only scored the one PL goal but his goals against Shakhtar at the time was a winning goal and his goals in the Europa League were vital to us winning games at times.

I also want to dispute that Moses doesn't fit in Mourinho's system, Moses is a direct, pacey, strong, physical player, these attributes you could link to a Mourinho team (he had similar attributes in certain players at his other clubs; Ronaldo at Real, Eto'o at Inter, Drogba at Chelsea) Moses was loaned out after Abramovich went and wasted 30m on Willian who may be a good player, but nothing we don't already have in Mata, Hazard and Oscar. I really feel for Moses, Di Matteo was desperate to sign him and after an excellent pre-season under Jose hes been shipped out on loan when you could say that he outperformed the likes of Schurrle and Hazard. Sure pre-season means nothing but Jose even went on record and praised Moses during the tour and said he'd get games. Its a strange one still I'm hoping Moses can get a chance at some point, think he deserved slightly better after his pre-season performances.

I'm certain Schurrle, Kevin, Hazard etc are all better than Moses, 110% certain but he was certainly a decent player who would have gotten minutes if we hadn't needlessly signed Willian.

I agree with many of your points, Ry (may I? Although Ryan is my very fave name in English for boys, I have a tendency of abbreviating everything). I don't think he's a bad player. I think he's inconstant. He's young, even if he's going to be 23 this year as someone pointed, he's still under development. Many players started peaking too early in their careers lately and I guess it leads us to lose the grasp of the reality for most. A player who is 22, 23 has plenty of time to improve and peaking at 25, 26 is absolutely normal and acceptable. It's still the case with most athletes in all sports.

now how fair is it with him to be a third option for one position? Because Willian can play quite well in the middle and he can do the false 9 if Mourinho wants him to (something I don't think he will, but still), so in theory he's third in more than one position. Eden is Mourinho's untouchable, he will only miss when he's injured and absolutely needs rest and even then both Kevin and André would be ahead of him. I think Willian caused a problem to Mourinho, not to Moses. Moses would play even less than he played last season. Much less actually. How fair is that? For one to be considered a squad player he has to have play I'd say at least 25% of the matches (whether starting or coming as a sub), don't you agree? Take Willian out of the equation. With Mata, Oscar, Hazard, André and Kevin, when would Moses play? The Swindon match and others of the likes of it, the eventual sub in the last 15 minutes. He wouldn't be selected to even be in the bench many times because we can't have only AM in the bench...

Also I didn't mean he doesn't fit at all. I meant others fit better. Not only for their work-rate, but also because of their style. For certain kind of matches though he'd fit better than André, for example. But in my opinion Kevin is an improved Moses through and through in everything you listed (except maybe the strong part, although Kevin isn't small and he's strong. It's tough to push him away with your body). I think he should have left, I don't think loaning our players to a club like Liverpool is wise though. I feel like we are belittling Liverpool and writing them off from the title contenders. That could be a mistake, although they've been consistently shit for the past few years we should never underestimate a club with their force, tradition and history. I know this is one of the worst shit to read, but sometimes those things still win you matches, they can unbalance a few matches, so I wouldn't underestimate them or Arsenal - just made fun

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I'd consider Eto'o a half decent forward. Seems like half decent wasn't good enough against Everton.

Should go big this winter.

Of course Eto'o is half-decent, as is Torres. Just a figure of speech - we could have "gone big", as you say, on someone of an even greater ilk.

uhm uhm... say what???

Haha, the two of us are the solitary members of the Moses fan-club! I thought he was the best player on the pitch last night - though, that being said, Shelvey did very well to play that well for two teams!

[zolayes 14,489]

Now i can understand the annoyance with the Sturridge situation because of our striking problems but Moses? i dont understand.

Moses was a good squad player last season, inconsistent, frustrating, but capable of a very good game. But is he better than any of the six we currently have? no, Liverpool is his stepping stone to try and force his way back in.

I think its Sod Law ,,,or Murphy's law since it is Liverpool . I'm sure if we loaned them Mikel he would score more goals than Lampard

[Special Juan 27,111]

Delighted for Moses and his goal last night, had another really good game.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I think its Sod Law ,,,or Murphy's law since it is Liverpool . I'm sure if we loaned them Mikel he would score more goals than Lampard

I think you might be going a little to far there Ron! I personally wouldn't have loaned Liverpool a sloppy shit, but this could be a make-or-break season for Vic. If he can prove he has the ability to perform at a very good club like Liverpool, then surely that puts him in good stead for his Stamford Bridge future.

[didierforever 7,349]

Of course Eto'o is half-decent, as is Torres. Just a figure of speech - we could have "gone big", as you say, on someone of an even greater ilk.

Haha, the two of us are the solitary members of the Moses fan-club! I thought he was the best player on the pitch last night - though, that being said, Shelvey did very well to play that well for two teams!

yup, played like he wanted to prove a point. hope he continues in the same vein. i just dont know what would happen to him when cunt-suarez comes back. just hope that henderson gets the boot and sturridge is shifted to the right wing rather than moses getting the boot.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

yup, played like he wanted to prove a point. hope he continues in the same vein. i just dont know what would happen to him when cunt-suarez comes back. just hope that henderson gets the boot and sturridge is shifted to the right wing rather than moses getting the boot.

Well Rodgers has made it quite clear he intends to keep Sturridge central. After his goalscoring exploits this season you see no reason to move him. Suarez can do a good job out wide as an inverted winger, or indeed even as a second striker. You'd imagine it would be Henderson he replaces?

[didierforever 7,349]

Well Rodgers has made it quite clear he intends to keep Sturridge central. After his goalscoring exploits this season you see no reason to move him. Suarez can do a good job out wide as an inverted winger, or indeed even as a second striker. You'd imagine it would be Henderson he replaces?

we can only hope.

but this is kinda scary

-----------sturridge--------

--moses--countinho--suarez--

[Spike 12,049]

Does anyone else think he will be caught up in the mix and end up at another club permanently sooner rather than later? The attacking roles are pretty stacked at the moment (sans striker) from the last transfer window. Hopefully the club makes the right judgement with Moses and this doesn't end up biting the club in the arse.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

we can only hope.

but this is kinda scary

-----------sturridge--------

--moses--countinho--suarez-

It's a very decent line-up Liverpool have there. There is a lot of interchangability between the front four, and with Lucas and Gerrard behind them they have both goals and creativity to support them. Rodgers is building a good side, and you have to say we have strengthened them immensely with the arrivals of Sturridge and Moses.

[didierforever 7,349]

It's a very decent line-up Liverpool have there. There is a lot of interchangability between the front four, and with Lucas and Gerrard behind them they have both goals and creativity to support them. Rodgers is building a good side, and you have to say we have strengthened them immensely with the arrivals of Sturridge and Moses.

very good point. and that is one of the reasons i dont understand why people are not giving them enough creditibility for top4. they have as good a first team as tottenham and if they can play well in the big matches and get a couple of points off arsenal and spurs in their 2 fixtures, i dont see why they cant get into top4. the only problem i see with them is injuries. they have no back-up. aspas,sterling simply dont cut it for me, henderson can be very useless on the wings, joe allen is a good squad player.

[Special Juan 27,111]

The problem with Liverpool for me is they were gifted that game last night and still didn't win. I don't worry about Liverpool one jot but the thing that I think is that Liverpool always raise their game against United, us and Arsenal yet it's the games like last night, away to Swansea etc that they will lose points.

It's still very early days.

[English Freak 456]

very good point. and that is one of the reasons i dont understand why people are not giving them enough creditibility for top4. they have as good a first team as tottenham and if they can play well in the big matches and get a couple of points off arsenal and spurs in their 2 fixtures, i dont see why they cant get into top4. the only problem i see with them is injuries. they have no back-up. aspas,sterling simply dont cut it for me, henderson can be very useless on the wings, joe allen is a good squad player.

Liverpool's first team Spurs first team

----------- Sturridge ------------ ---------Soldado-----------

Moses -- Coutinho -- Suarez Lamela --- Eriksen --- Lennon

---------Lucas ---- Gerrard---- ------ Paulinho --- Dembele

Enrique - Agger -- Skrtel -- Johnson Rose --- Jan -- Dawson -- Walker

------------Mignolet ------------ ------------ Lloris ------------

Spurs have the much better bench in comparison to Liverpool.