Oscar

[Muzchap 8,966]

If the rumours if him potentially leaving are true would that be the biggest hint yet we are reverting back to 4 3 3 full time?

I would love us to have other options - 4-2-3-1 just doesn't always work

4-3-3 or 4-4-2 against some teams would definitely help

I'm not sure the Oscar rumours are true - just more media BS

[LAB 1,030]

If the rumours if him potentially leaving are true would that be the biggest hint yet we are reverting back to 4 3 3 full time?

On the contrary. Oscar fits in 4-3-3 and probably better than in 4-2-3-1 imo

[lionsden 4,689]

Ganso became and was injury prone....Ganso's skillset was always very high, he was just slow and injury prone....

I love how OScar faded into oblivion and failed to fulfill early promise and potential...TBH, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Illiterate nubs would like your comment.

He's not showing signs of progression and getting any better that's for sure and he's never shown any consistency at club level be it internacional or Chelsea to suggest it's just a long barren purple patch. It's the same excuses that were made for countless failed youngsters "he's too talented not too make it", "he's just experiencing a purple patch" "He's not suited to the tactics, the managers isn't getting the best out of him" "He was fantastic (insert timeframe) and so on. we have seen it all before.

[lionsden 4,689]

I also find it quite contradictory to the "he's not ready/good enough" bandwagon how they aren't championing the idea of Oscar being sent out on loan to prove himself and polish his skills (God knows he needs massive amount of work and improvement from a technical standpoint).

Afterall he was bought on the back of his performances at the U20 WC and friendlies for Brazil and he has yet shown or proven anything at club level. If other youngsters are on loan for this reason, then it's fair to conclude Oscar is in the team on the basis of his transfer fee and hype.

Henceforth anyone that supports Oscar and think he deserves a starting spot in the first team have absolutely no right whatsover to claim Lukaku, for example, a player who has shown far more in the premier league than Oscar ever has, isn't ready yet or good enough for first team football at Chelsea as that will just be contradiction and double standard of the highest degree.

Also we have set a precedence that we are a learning school for young players afterall as long as they cost a lot of money so the excuse that we cannot afford to accommodate/ integrate (inconsistent/relatively unproven youngsters (Oscar was unproven when we bought him) as we have aspirations to challenge for and win titles and we aren't "Southampton" no longer holds weight .

You can't support Oscar and then frown at the idea of bringing through a youngster like Chalobah for example who also has shone at youth tournaments . . . . . . . once you give Oscar a chance, you have to give other youngsters with similar talent and career path one as well.

[Jype 6,398]

If the rumours if him potentially leaving are true would that be the biggest hint yet we are reverting back to 4 3 3 full time?

I see no reason why this wouldn't work, at least against the bottom half teams we struggled against last season. Against the big boys, especially away from home, either Oscar or Fabregas could then be replaced by Ramires or MvG to give us a more balanced midfield.

I really don't think Oscar is a player suited to play in the pivot of a 4-2-3-1 like some have been suggesting for a long time now, but in a 4-3-3 I think he could do really well as the most advanced CM of the three. However, I think you might be onto something here. Mata was already sold and due to his lack of tactical versatility he was for some time the main reason why we couldn't play 4-3-3 and if Oscar goes too I don't see why we should keep continuing with the 4-2-3-1 anymore. A midfield three of Matic, Fabregas and a box-to-box midfielder, someone with better technical ability than Ramires, would potentially be great. At the moment that third midfielder would probably be MvG and I think his qualities would be well suited to play there but I'm not sure if Mourinho thinks of him as a starter just yet.

All this assuming we actually pull off the Fabregas signing.

[Spike 12,049]

Oscar for the Golden Boot. Heard it here first.

[Jase 43,479]

I see no reason why this wouldn't work, at least against the bottom half teams we struggled against last season. Against the big boys, especially away from home, either Oscar or Fabregas could then be replaced by Ramires or MvG to give us a more balanced midfield.

I really don't think Oscar is a player suited to play in the pivot of a 4-2-3-1 like some have been suggesting for a long time now, but in a 4-3-3 I think he could do really well as the most advanced CM of the three. However, I think you might be onto something here. Mata was already sold and due to his lack of tactical versatility he was for some time the main reason why we couldn't play 4-3-3 and if Oscar goes too I don't see why we should keep continuing with the 4-2-3-1 anymore. A midfield three of Matic, Fabregas and a box-to-box midfielder, someone with better technical ability than Ramires, would potentially be great. At the moment that third midfielder would probably be MvG and I think his qualities would be well suited to play there but I'm not sure if Mourinho thinks of him as a starter just yet.

All this assuming we actually pull off the Fabregas signing.

Considering people always go on and on about the 4-2-3-1 doesn't work, how 4-3-3, 4-4-2 etc is better, it would really be nice if someone produce a detailed explanation on the intricacies as to why it doesn't work and the alternatives. Most, so far, are only scratching on its surface without necessarily going into details. It feels almost easy to say there's problem with this and that but not necessarily explaining in detail why so.

[Jype 6,398]

Considering people always go on and on about the 4-2-3-1 doesn't work, how 4-3-3, 4-4-2 etc is better, it would really be nice if someone produce a detailed explanation on the intricacies as to why it doesn't work and the alternatives. Most, so far, are only scratching on its surface without necessarily going into details. It feels almost easy to say there's problem with this and that but not necessarily explaining in detail why so.

I wasn't commenting on whether the current 4-2-3-1 works or not, more like speculation on what I think Mourinho might be considering. If we sold Oscar too after already selling Mata we'd have no reason to continue with the 4-2-3-1 because players like Ramires, MvG and Fabregas, should we get him, would work much better in a three man midfield than in the pivot of a 4-2-3-1.

I don't think changing the formation is some magic cure for our problems but if some minor tactical changes helped Mourinho get the best out of some players, I'm all for it.

[Jase 43,479]

I wasn't commenting on whether the current 4-2-3-1 works or not, more like speculation on what I think Mourinho might be considering. If we sold Oscar too after already selling Mata we'd have no reason to continue with the 4-2-3-1 because players like Ramires, MvG and Fabregas, should we get him, would work much better in a three man midfield than in the pivot of a 4-2-3-1.

I don't think changing the formation is some magic cure for our problems but if some minor tactical changes helped Mourinho get the best out of some players, I'm all for it.

Wasn't referring to you specifically but just in general. We all know these formations etc are just pretty numbers and it's the setup within the system/formation that makes it work. For all we know, Mourinho could set us up in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 but the results may well turn out to be the opposite of what people expect/want from the system if he goes about it the 'wrong' way.

For starters, would like to think the 4-2-3-1 is gonna work better with Mourinho making some tweaks within it and actually, having proper players in the right positions. Like a ST leading the frontline, a deep lying playmaker in the pivot and a LB in the LB spot(hopefully!).

[Jype 6,398]

For starters, would like to think the 4-2-3-1 is gonna work better with Mourinho making some tweaks within it and actually, having proper players in the right positions. Like a ST leading the frontline, a deep lying playmaker in the pivot and a LB in the LB spot(hopefully!).

I agree, but I'm not sure if Mourinho does. Maybe he's trying to get Fabregas to play as the DLP and all will be good after also getting Costa and Luis, but there is a real possibility that he still considers Ramires a key player and is planning on playing a pivot of Matic-Ramires with Cesc ahead of them in the position Oscar has so far been playing in. Maybe I'm alone with my opinion but for me that midfield trio would work much better with Matic sitting deep and the other two roaming more freely ahead of him while still not forgetting their defensive duties, compared to Matic and Ramires sitting deeper and Fabregas in the 'number ten position'. Never been impressed with Ramires in the pivot but I also haven't forgotten how good his performances were in a three man midfield and I think Fabregas in a deeper role would also benefit from having more players close to him because that way he wouldn't get so easily exposed defensively.

4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 are basically the same formation with some minor tweaks to suit different kinds of players so whichever we end up with I'm confident in Mourinho's abilities to get the best out of it.

[Barbara 15,149]

Considering people always go on and on about the 4-2-3-1 doesn't work, how 4-3-3, 4-4-2 etc is better, it would really be nice if someone produce a detailed explanation on the intricacies as to why it doesn't work and the alternatives. Most, so far, are only scratching on its surface without necessarily going into details. It feels almost easy to say there's problem with this and that but not necessarily explaining in detail why so.

First of all, it suits our players better. We strengthen our midfield, give more freedom to the attackers, we add quality to our transition, we occupy the field better - having better coverage. In a system where Mourinho seems to value defending with almost everyone off the ball and attacking with as many as possible on the ball, a more robust - and populated midfield - is less demanding for the team as a whole as those three players distribute better the ball when we have it and cover more ground imo when we don't. In a 4-3-3 it seems like we'll depend less of Hazard marking his man like in Atleti's first goal because there are three players ahead of him (as we don't have the ball) giving the first 'combat', and his defensive work is limited. The attackers (whether strikers, wingers or CAMs) have more room to move and link-up with a support of two, sometimes three players just behind them, it's like a wave.

Of course many of those things are also possible in a 4-2-3-1, but for example, I see linkup plays in a 4-2-3-1 happening more between FB and wingers, while I see it between midfielders and attackers in the 4-3-3 more than with the FB. The same three guys behind the attackers are attacking when we have the ball, but the moment we miss it, they're still in their 'zone' to tackle it right away. It may seem contradictory at first, but a 4-2-3-1 with Mourinho's mentality - at least last season (he had a different one in Spain, but then again, Spanish football is very light, opposite to England's heavy-physical style) - makes the team more defensive than a 4-3-3 when in theory, it should be the opposite as one has four players attacking while the other has three. But in the end we ask more from the CAMs and wingers in terms of defense and they wear out quicker and some of them may even get overwhelmed. In a 4-3-3 I feel the attackers have a bit more freedom, if the FB decides to support the attack there's a firm and steady line of three players just behind them or by their side. When we have talented players making this three line - such as Modrid, di Maria, Oscar, Fabregas, etc... not only we offer coverage, tackles, functional and effective pressing, but we also add quality coming from behind. Also I think 4-3-3 is more suited for teams that don't play with possession (seemingly our case) and the break counts with players such as those I've just mentioned passing to the attackers, instead of two defensive pivot players. We add quality to set-up the attack and we give more freedom to the attackers imo.

Take Oscar, for example, who I think is perfect for a 4-3-3 now. He's sharing his primary defensive duties with two other players and he's equally responsible for attacking and defending, whereas as a CAM or a winger, his main duty is to attack, but he also has to press and tackle as soon as possible after the possession is given away. It's overloading because his first priority is to attack, but his mind has to be in the defensive aspect all the time. He's normally higher in the pitch in a 4-2-3-1, whereas in a 4-3-3 he's a bit deeper and he can distribute better and actually make a transition, instead of a pivot with Ramires, for example. In the 4-2-3-1, Oscar receives the ball and then carries it or passes to someone ahead of him or linkup. In a 4-3-3 he can be a deep lying playmaker, that will give the ball to someone that will carry it and linkup with another attacker. Then coming from behind, Oscar presents himself as an option is if counter is slowed down and we actually have to create a chance from possession, as well as the guy who can take a shot. His responsibilities change. That's why I don't like the idea of him playing in the pivot in a 4-2-3-1. Sharing his primary defensive responsibilities - which would be his first priority - with only one player will exhaust him, expose his slim body and I'm positive both things would contribute for him to wear down faster, easier, in addition to demand him to overachieve in something that isn't his best attribute (tackling). He does great tackling as a CAM or a third man in a 4-3-3 midfield because he shares the burden with more people. Relying on him alone to cover a side of the pitch or to give proper-serious first combat is asking more than he physically and technically offers. The same would happen to a player like Fabregas, for example. Now the combination of the two of them, with Matic behind them, or by their side, relieve their burden and responsibility and allow them to be more 'whole' and fresh throughout the match, especially to make the transition with more talent and quality. They have better vision (and view) coming from behind than they have once they're already high in the pitch. It's like exploring their best attributes.

That's my view at least...

edit: I forgot to mention something I think it's important. When I said 4-3-3 suits better our players, I forgot to say why it doesn't for a 4-2-3-1. For the latter to work at its best we need two things from the pivot players. They're basically mandatory in terms of EPL as it's very physical: they need to be strong, physical and relentless. We only have Matic that fits that bill and maybe Mikel. They also need to have the ability to pick a deep pass (as Alonso and Schweinsteiger do so well) as well as make the transition smooth. Currently, we have Matic to do it not as often and that's about it. Mikel and Ramires can't offer it.

[Korea 734]

I think the acquisition of Cesc drops Oscar moreso than Ramires.....

[Namika 922]

Come on boy, it's your time to shine.

[LucienDillonCFC 77]

Oscars shot then, wow

[Ze Mario 638]

Brazil-oscar is on the track now. Vision, Passing, shooting.

And now that! Damn amazing.