Wishlist Hulk

[The Skipper 20,593]

It is vastly inferior to the English league. Braga was the third place team in Portugal and they might be battling for relegation in England. Do they have a single starting international player? Their squad is made up of second-rate Brazilian and Portuguese players. The best players from all over the world go to the Premier League. Even teams struggling will have some internationals. There are internationals from England, France, Spain, Holland, all over Africa and Asia,, etc...The Portuguese League doesn't even have the best Portuguese players. In fact, West Ham had more internationals playing in the Championship than Braga did as the third place team. And Braga had a +30 goal differential which tells you all you need to know about the rest of the league.

So West Ham would win the Portuguese League then? West Ham practically had a PL side in the Championship. Porto and Benfica are one of the top clubs in Europe, they've proven that through their CL and Europa League performances.

Of course the Portuguese League is inferior to the PL, but some over-exaggeration isn't needed.

It's not a surprise that many players from Portugal became key players of whatever club they joined. The footballers in Portugal are good, some even great. I put Hulk in the great bracket.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Tottenham play with real wingers, and they finished above us.

Manchester United play with real wingers, and they finished above us.

They both play better, more exciting football than us.

Man City don't play with real wingers and they won the PL. Your point? Man City played some scintillating stuff this season too.

A variety of teams who don't play with real wingers still produce good football.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

So West Ham would win the Portuguese League then? West Ham practically had a PL side in the Championship. Porto and Benfica are one of the top clubs in Europe, they've proven that through their CL and Europa League performances.

Of course the Portuguese League is inferior to the PL, but some over-exaggeration isn't needed.

It's not a surprise that many players from Portugal became key players of whatever club they joined. The footballers in Portugal are good, some even great. I put Hulk in the great bracket.

Jesus....Did you even bother reading what I wrote? West Ham are not better than Porto or Benfica and I never said anything like that, but they'd be near the top of the Portuguese League, yes. And Porto and Benfica are absolutely not one of the top clubs in Europe. Where do you think they'd finish if they were in the Premiership? Chelsea has vastly more talent and finished 6th. Portugal doesn't even have the best Portuguese players. In the game against Germany, only 2 of the starting 11 for Portugal actually play in the Portuguese league.

[pachman40 357]

How come when we discuss a player from Portugal the quality of the league becomes a primary part of the debate? And how come everyone exaggerates to make their points seem more relevant? Nobody with a brain would say Portugal's league is as good as the EPL, but people talking smack about it, bringing up international players, goal differentials, and things like that obviously don't watch the league, period. The superiority complex about the EPL is frustrating to other fans because people are so busy trumpeting how utterly fantastic their league and dismissing other leagues that they can't see the forest through the trees. Recognize that another league doesn't need to be shit upon in order to validate the quality of the EPL. Everyone knows players generally aspire to get out of the Portuguese league to play in the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, and sometimes the Serie A but a huge part of that desire is money and worldwide fame.

The disparity in the leagues is truly overstated by some here. Sorry for the wakeup call, but Porto and Benfica would be battling nose to nose for Champions League spots in England and our next tier would be nose to nose against the Liverpools and Evertons for Europa League spots. We would be far far away from relegation battles, and to say that the West Hams of the world would be fighting for our title is simple ignorance. Being ignorant of our league is justifiable since we don't have as much coverage as others but to spout off these types of claims shows who talks for the sake of talking and who actually knows what they are talking about.

Sorry about the rant but I'm sensitive about this stuff. I'm not trying to come across as combative, but its just frustrating reading some of this stuff.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Tottenham play with real wingers, and they finished above us.

Manchester United play with real wingers, and they finished above us.

They both play better, more exciting football than us.

hmm... but why exactly do you comapre tham with Chelsea of 11/12 ? we played shit. We are talking about next season.

With the new players we'll play way more exciting football then them. Both of them btw played horrible football for some time last season.

You wont find a man u fan who was satisfied with the way they played, and spurs are spure... its not a coincidence that Man U went for

Kagawa, and spurs went for Hazard.

And another thing, you clearly didnt saw enough of Hazard and Hulk if you think they are not giving those width passes you want.

Thats pretty much a big part of their game.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Yes the league is so poor 4th place Sporting Lisbon knocked out English champion Man City out of the Europa league.

Arsenal had 25 goal differential what is your point?

The difference between Man City and third place is 29 points, while in Portugal the difference betwwen 1st place and 3rd place is only 13 points. Is Portuguese league more comparative? no, here is the thing with stats i can make it do anything and make misleading statements.

The EPL is betterwithout a doubt, but Portuguese liga is still a respectable league with good teams and great history.

you have been banging the same argument for a while, with random statistics to back up your ridiculous statements and keep saying the Primeira liga is poor. Try another angle for your argument for once.

The only reason I am banging on about it, is that people like you keep bringing up ridiculous arguments. "Team A beat team B therefore league A is better than league B" is not a logically valid argument because it implies that the team that wins is always from the better league which is nonsense. I am not using random statistics. Go look at the players in the Premiera League. Apart from Porto and Benfica, the league is extremely weak. I am looking at talent. Here is the starting XI for Braga's last match. Quim( Portugal's 4th choice keeper), Coelho (0 caps for Portugal), Echiejele(16 caps for Nigeria) Lopes (1 cap for Portugal), Ewerton (0 caps), Viana ( emergency replacement for the Euros, was not good enough for Newcastle or Valencia who both got rid of him after a year), Custodio (1 cap for Portugal), Amorim (1 cap for Portugal) , Imorou (4 caps for Benin), Mossoro (0 caps for Portugal), and Lima (0 caps for Brazil.) That's the team that came third in the league. Where do you think this team would finish in England? These are not some trick stats, this is not some angle, this is just about talent and the talent of the third place team in Portugal might not even escape relegation in England. This is exactly why it is so hard to judge players who have only had success in Portugal. If you want to see the difference in quality simply, look at one position-keepers. There are 13 keepers who play in England at the Euro.There are 2 who play in Portugal. (And England have international keepers from Belgium, Australia, US, etc...who are not at the Euro as well)

[pachman40 357]

Fernando is easily the best defensive midfielder in the league.

Cardozo is astonishingly prolific, almost like, but not quite as good as, Falcao.

Aimar is magic.

Gaitan shouldn't be in the list.

Patricio is one of the best players in the league, and easily and by far the best goalkeeper. Better than most of the Premier League 'keepers.

Capel has single handedly won games for Sporting all season, including some magic efforts in the Europa League. Best actual WINGER in the league.

Gomes is one of the greatest players to ever play in the league.

Lima has easily been on Hulk's level this past season. Have you seen how many goals he scored?

Fernando is a very good player, I'd love to have him on my team but you're exaggerating. Javi Garcia is right there with him, not gonna debate who's better cuz that's not relevant.

Cardozo is far from prolific, he has good stats and is very important, but he's extremely extremely wasteful, not even remotely in the same league as Falcao

Patricio is world class and will make an English team very very happy soon enough

Capel is very good but you're overrating him based on a couple of months of good play, good potential but again exaggerating his current quality

Gomes was and is one of my favorite players ever, but he'd barely make the top 10 for Benfica let alone the whole league...not even in the same hemisphere as Eusebio, Figo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Rui Costa, etc...

Lima is a hack, someone has to score for Braga but he's not even on the bench for Porto and Benfica, thanks for coming.

Anyways, I'm going way off topic, I appreciate that you have some knowledge of the league but you're clearly out of your element. Hulk is head and shoulders above everyone in the league and that hurts like hell to admit it but its the truth. Patricio, Gaitan, Nelson Oliveira, Rodrigo are all furture European superstars but right now, today, they aren't on the same level as Hulk.

[Leif 6,006]

Let's all just have a big orgy.

[pachman40 357]

The only reason I am banging on about it, is that people like you keep bringing up ridiculous arguments. "Team A beat team B therefore league A is better than league B" is not a logically valid argument because it implies that the team that wins is always from the better league which is nonsense. I am not using random statistics. Go look at the players in the Premiera League. Apart from Porto and Benfica, the league is extremely weak. I am looking at talent. Here is the starting XI for Braga's last match. Quim( Portugal's 4th choice keeper), Coelho (0 caps for Portugal), Echiejele(16 caps for Nigeria) Lopes (1 cap for Portugal), Ewerton (0 caps), Viana ( emergency replacement for the Euros, was not good enough for Newcastle or Valencia who both got rid of him after a year), Custodio (1 cap for Portugal), Amorim (1 cap for Portugal) , Imorou (4 caps for Benin), Mossoro (0 caps for Portugal), and Lima (0 caps for Brazil.) That's the team that came third in the league. Where do you think this team would finish in England? These are not some trick stats, this is not some angle, this is just about talent and the talent of the third place team in Portugal might not even escape relegation in England. This is exactly why it is so hard to judge players who have only had success in Portugal. If you want to see the difference in quality simply, look at one position-keepers. There are 13 keepers who play in England at the Euro.There are 2 who play in Portugal. (And England have international keepers from Belgium, Australia, US, etc...who are not at the Euro as well)

I see your points and can't argue with most of them. I look at Braga and scratch my head wondering how they can be competitive with a much smaller budget and no-name players but they play as a team and are getting better and better. There's no doubt that a 3rd place team in Portugal is not going to be a 3rd place team in England but they are surely not fighting relegation, just like a relegation fighting team in England is not going to waltz into Portugal and claim a Champions League spot. I would be hard-pressed to make a case for the likes of the superstar laden talent in Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, etc... to not finish bottom half of the table in Portugal.

Once again, the sheer amount of internationals playing in England is expected based on the money and exposure that comes with playing in the league. Nobody "aspires" to eventually play in Portugal, but the truth is that there are very good, decent, and plain bad teams there as in any other league.

[pachman40 357]

Some recent posts I've made defending our league and talking up Hulk might sound hypocritical to my older posts. I haven't changed my mind, excellent player, likely to continue to dominate in the EPL, but over-priced relative to the market, Porto's president squeezing everything he can and making me sick.

Fantastic signing if it happens for Chelsea and definitely will fit like a glove with our current attacking options, but it hurts to overpay.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I see your points and can't argue with most of them. I look at Braga and scratch my head wondering how they can be competitive with a much smaller budget and no-name players but they play as a team and are getting better and better. There's no doubt that a 3rd place team in Portugal is not going to be a 3rd place team in England but they are surely not fighting relegation, just like a relegation fighting team in England is not going to waltz into Portugal and claim a Champions League spot. I would be hard-pressed to make a case for the likes of the superstar laden talent in Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan, etc... to not finish bottom half of the table in Portugal.

Once again, the sheer amount of internationals playing in England is expected based on the money and exposure that comes with playing in the league. Nobody "aspires" to eventually play in Portugal, but the truth is that there are very good, decent, and plain bad teams there as in any other league.

It's always all about the money. It's actually a little sad because small leagues used to be more competitive. A team like Ajax used to be able to be a dominant force in Europe. It's just not possible any more. The big leagues just swallow up all the talent from everywhere and the big teams swallow up all the talent from the little teams. It's a mixed bag because you get the most talented teams in history now but you also only have about 10-15 sides in Europe who are really good.

[pachman40 357]

Hulk interest hots up

http://www1.skysport.../11095/7809010/

What kinda of shit is this?

The Guardian reported that the deal was done, and now nothing is done?

Guardian has now gone into my unreliable list!

There's nobody else knocking at the door at the quoted prices, just yapping from the agent to create urgency. Nobody can convince me that Porto are hoping to keep him for another year, they're probably throwing up in their mouth thinking of him hanging around all grumpy and losing value with every week. They want to cash in NOW! Porto spent 13.5M euros earlier this year to acquire an additional 40% of Hulk. That values him at over 33M euros for full ownership, and Porto do not spend money like that sitting and hoping to keep that player in the squad. They obviously want to flip him for over 40M euros but are struggling to find someone to compete with Chelsea to drive the price up. Hammer them and make them choke on their greed.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

but it hurts to overpay.

How is it hurts?! how? you are all killing me!

Why do you care about Roman's money? about a f****** 8m euros? 8m from he's pocket hurts you? i cant read this crap.

[pachman40 357]

How is it hurts?! how?! you are all killing me!

Why do you care about Roman's money? about a f****** 8m euros? 8m from he's pocket hurts you? i cant read this crap.

Hurts is just a figure of speech. You invest emotionally into Chelsea as a fan and want what's best for the club. I don't like seeing us getting it up the ass especially from a regular offender like Pinto da Costa. In the end yes its Roman's money and its pocket change for him, so why bother discussing it? Because we care, that's why!

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Hurts is just a figure of speech. You invest emotionally into Chelsea as a fan and want what's best for the club. I don't like seeing us getting it up the ass especially from a regular offender like Pinto da Costa. In the end yes its Roman's money and its pocket change for him, so why bother discussing it? Because we care, that's why!

But its ridiculous that you care about 8m euros that not even belongs directly to the club! its Roman's money and he have lots and lots of it, let him spend 8m too much!

I want you to explain why do you care. Real explantion please because i dont get it. (and dont come with this FFP crap, because its 8m ffs...)

[hazardous 7]

You want a good striker? Get Lewandowski before man utd get him

[incometax 116]

But its ridiculous that you care about 8m euros that not even belongs directly to the club! its Roman's money and he have lots and lots of it, let him spend 8m too much!

I want you to explain why do you care. Real explantion please because i dont get it. (and dont come with this FFP crap, because its 8m ffs...)

well were very tight on ffp, so 8 million more can affectt the buisness model we have planned for getting the club to comply with ffp. But it may not be that amount alone, its the fact that other teams will see us giving into porto's demand and than everyone will want to add an extra 15% to the transfer fee cause were chelsea.

I say if anything, shove hazard right wing and get jovetic for lw.

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

Talk sport reported that Porto are set to offer him a new contract so hmmm we are fucked if we dont get a move on, still think the deals long gone now.