David Luiz

[HRiver 1,512]

In order, for me, it's Terry > Ivanovic > Cahill > Luiz.

Luiz isn't our best defender, he's skillful as a footballer but he's not intelligent enough for a defender.

[The only place to be 11,313]

lol liked the "messy defending stuff" bit...the secret skill set of a good defender.

Disagree concerning Luiz and Terry; Terry's wasn't born with the awareness he displays on the pitch now. He's at his peak as a player, especially because defenders peak at around their 30s. I expect Luiz to get there eventually, though he will obviously become a different type of defender, even when more composed. One who should (as he does now) pair well with a composed defender like Terry is.

Contrary to most here, I'm more concerned about Cahill of late. His defending has been very soft (even not physical enough).

Honestly I don't think any of the defenders get enough protection from the midfield.

But my view of Luiz is that he simply doesn't enjoy defending like Terry or Ivanovic. I always get the impression that the highlight of Terry's matches are those near-post clearances - for Luiz it's when he gets a chance to run out of defence or gets a free-kick opportunity. He also lacks the concentration I think top-class defenders need.

At Barcelona, in La Liga he would be brilliant but in the Premier League I think he just gets caught out too often.

[Corner 456]

Honestly I don't think any of the defenders get enough protection from the midfield.

But my view of Luiz is that he simply doesn't enjoy defending like Terry or Ivanovic. I always get the impression that the highlight of Terry's matches are those near-post clearances - for Luiz it's when he gets a chance to run out of defence or gets a free-kick opportunity. He also lacks the concentration I think top-class defenders need.

At Barcelona, in La Liga he would be brilliant but in the Premier League I think he just gets caught out too often.

100 per cent agree with all of this. You're on fire mate.

The first thing comes to mind for me when I think of our defenders:

Terry: throwing his body in front of a shot, not caring where or how hard he gets hit. Sticking his head in front of a high boot. Willing to take getting hit for the team.

Ivanovic: Last ditch challenge. No nonsense defending.

Cahill: Playing the offside trap perfectly. Celebrating if the opposition fail to score. A lot of heart.

Luiz: Taking the ball around an opposing striker. Looking for a long complicated pass. Standing over the ball for a free-kick.

This says it all really. Luiz is more of a footballer than a defender. And that would be great if we kept possession of the ball for 70 per cent of the game like Barcelona. But we don't, and we're not Barcelona no matter how much Roman wants us to be. In my opinion, the more advancements we make with possession football (which is what Roman wants), then the better Luiz will be in our team.

[robsblubot 3,595]

I don't disagree with either of you, but isn't it also fair to say that David's style merely demands a bit more protection, or cover, which should not be a problem. He also did not seem to have a problem when *told* not to leave his position in the Champions league. I mean everyone here who knows something about the game sees that our problems go way beyond the CB pair, but David still gets some IMO unfair criticism regardless.

Concerning heart, I hear that a lot and my answer is always that you can find a lot of heart in the championship players... Heart is extremely overrated IMO. A player is either good enough or he isn't. Either he is confortable on the ball or he isn't. When things are most challenging, when facing the very best forwarders, that's when any shortcoming will get punished. BTW, ironically, one of the things I like most about Terry is that he is a cool (almost cold) player; he tackles players or shots as if nothing special and does not celebrate like Cahill does... In my mind, David and Terry are more natural footballers.

Chelsea are a team who must always focus on the tough match, how to face the very best teams and players. We shouldn't need Torres, or Luiz, or whoever to have perfect games against the likes of West Ham for example.

[BLionheart 516]

When i say Luiz is our best defender it's not based on my , your or Alan Hansen's opinion ....it's based on the fact that any manager of the 4 we had since Luiz has came in opted him as 1st choice CB in-front of Terry,Alex,Ivanovic,Cahill , but i do agree with them.

[Hutcho 8,443]

JT is our best DEFENDER hands down. Whether you want to argue that the benefit of david luiz for attacking and passing reasons is very much up to you, but for me in terms of just defence which as of right now is all i care about our central defenders doing JT is no 1 in there all day long.

Adding to that, you know JT will do everything in his power to marshall that defence and do his NO 1 job.

[The only place to be 11,313]

JT is our best DEFENDER hands down. Whether you want to argue that the benefit of david luiz for attacking and passing reasons is very much up to you, but for me in terms of just defence which as of right now is all i care about our central defenders doing JT is no 1 in there all day long.

Yep. Him and Ivanovic should be first choice when fit, Cahill on the bench and Luiz can go to a Spanish team that will put up with his brainfarts because he scores the odd free-kick.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Yep. Him and Ivanovic should be first choice when fit, Cahill on the bench and Luiz can go to a Spanish team that will put up with his brainfarts because he scores the odd free-kick.

I agree with with JT and Ivan, also helps that we have seemed to ahve found a bit of a gem in Azpi as our RB. I am sure this must have been said before but haven't gone back through and really read much but i am sure david luiz with his passing pace and "adventurous side" would be great for any HIGH possession side, and it wouldn't even have to be just barca, but several other teams that like to keep hold of the ball. We want to try and play that style but lets be honest we don't have the central midfield for it. Cahill is a good reliable no 3 who we know can do a job if we need him for whatever reason.

[TacticalBlues 2,817]

[Leif 6,006]

Luiz, in my opinion, needs a completely different role.

Instead of strolling forward and leaving a slow Terry as our last defender, he needs to act a bit more like how Carvalho was during his time with us - more like a covering defender when partnered with Terry; scooping up loose balls, punting the ball away, and just making sure the ball does not go into the back of the net.

Similar has happened at Barcelona with Puyol. With his decline and loss of pace (not like he ever had much), Pique has had to stop roaming forward as much and now often covers for Puyol.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Luiz, in my opinion, needs a completely different role.

Instead of strolling forward and leaving a slow Terry as our last defender, he needs to act a bit more like how Carvalho was during his time with us - more like a covering defender when partnered with Terry; scooping up loose balls, punting the ball away, and just making sure the ball does not go into the back of the net.

Similar has happened at Barcelona with Puyol. With his decline and loss of pace (not like he ever had much), Pique has had to stop roaming forward as much and now often covers for Puyol.

Agreed - thing is - when he plays for Brazil he actually does shit like that - it's so frustrating...

Maybe he's doing it though, because HE IS getting frustrated with the SHIT play in front of him and thinks, fuck it - I'll show them how it's done... (Talking about his runs forward)

On the standing around bit - he really needs to improve this, nothing I hate more than seeing a player give up, fair play to Rooney and RvP - I've seen them track right back to their 18yrd box to make a tackle when they lose possession...

The mentality we are missing is:

DEFEND AS A TEAM

ATTACK AS A TEAM

We just seem to say, you guys defend and we attack - that shit aint working

[Corner 456]

Luiz, in my opinion, needs a completely different role.

Instead of strolling forward and leaving a slow Terry as our last defender, he needs to act a bit more like how Carvalho was during his time with us - more like a covering defender when partnered with Terry; scooping up loose balls, punting the ball away, and just making sure the ball does not go into the back of the net.

Similar has happened at Barcelona with Puyol. With his decline and loss of pace (not like he ever had much), Pique has had to stop roaming forward as much and now often covers for Puyol.

I agree. But you can't blame Luiz if he is being instructed to do otherwise. If we could recreate the relationship Terry and Carvalho had with Terry and Luiz that would be fantastic. But the players have to obey the managers' instructions if they want to stay in the team.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I agree. But you can't blame Luiz if he is being instructed to do otherwise. If we could recreate the relationship Terry and Carvalho had with Terry and Luiz that would be fantastic. But the players have to obey the managers' instructions if they want to stay in the team.

I think there's a massive difference between Carvalho and Luiz and it goes back to my earlier point - Carvalho loved defending. He loved a crunching tackle or a goal-line clearance.

When Carvalho tackled a player, that was it. Job Done.

When Luiz tackles a player he sees it as an opportunity to get forward and join the attack.

He has every single physical tool he needs to be the best defender in the world, but it's those top 2 inches that I think he might lack and in the Premier League defending is a very instinctive thing because of the speed of the game. In Spain he might get a fraction more time and he could be phenomenal there.

[Corner 456]

I think there's a massive difference between Carvalho and Luiz and it goes back to my earlier point - Carvalho loved defending. He loved a crunching tackle or a goal-line clearance.

When Carvalho tackled a player, that was it. Job Done.

When Luiz tackles a player he sees it as an opportunity to get forward and join the attack.

He has every single physical tool he needs to be the best defender in the world, but it's those top 2 inches that I think he might lack and in the Premier League defending is a very instinctive thing because of the speed of the game. In Spain he might get a fraction more time and he could be phenomenal there.

That's true, I can't really disagree with any of that really.

But I'm willing to bet that he's being instructed to dribble the ball out of defence. It needs to be done every now and again if you want to keep possession.

And since the second half of last season, he's shown that he can be great at no nonsense defending if he's asked to do that. As you pointed out, his instincts let him down every now and again. It's those same instincts that could make him a world-class defenders in a team that keeps possession for most of the game. So unless Chelsea make more advancements with possession football, then Luiz will remain the same. However, let's say Pep does take over next season, I have a feeling Luiz will go on to be one of the best defenders in the world. He just needs a coach who understands possession football to teach him to rights and wrongs of it.

I don't think anyone has ever question Luiz's footballing ability, after all. It's just that in the Premiership being a 'defender' and being a 'footballer' are two very different things sometimes.

[Henrique 9,133]

Not a surprise Luiz is playing good again after RDM got the axe. I respect people that love RDM, but Chelsea was mess.