David Luiz

[Reddish-Blue 2,489]

@The only place to be,

I just don't get why you seem to hate Luiz so much

Cahill makes just as many mistakes as Luiz...yet for some reason, everyone loves him.

[pachman40 357]

Very well written but inaccurate on several aspects in my opinion. David Luiz with all his qualities and flaws is an amazing player. The problem that people here have with Luiz is not that he has flaws, because every player does. The problem here stirs from the fact that Chelsea today has a manager who has a scientific approach to football, which is compounded by a vision of discipline and rigor where each player is given very specific instructions as to what he must and must not do. Like Luiz, we also got this manager knowing fully well who he was and how he worked, and even before the season started, there were rumors that fan-favorites Mata and Luiz were seen with skepticism by the new management.

Because of this, us Chelsea fans who both love David AND feel optimistic about the new project, are faced with a dilemma: On one hand there is a system being built that simply does not tolerate the uncertainty brought by a player's "rushes of blood" that often times result in absolute brilliance capable of making us fans drop our jaws, and which, however, a lot of times also result in total disaster for the team, and on the other hand, like you said, it's a shame that we have no means of getting more out of this wonderful potential.

Most of Chelsea's fans who criticize Luiz for his failure to adapt and become more disciplined, actually do it because they know he will be gone soon unless he does, and they don't want that to happen.

Unfortunately, like you pointed out, even if Luiz was to become more "traditional", he simply wouldn't be himself anymore. So perhaps his best future lies outside our club... Unlike you though, I feel skeptic that he will find that freedom and tolerance that he requires to flourish as a player, in a club like Bayern or Barcelona. The distaste for players who regularly boycott the manager's instructions in the heat of the moment, is usually common in all world class managers. It's not just Mourinho.

Some fair points, everyone has their opinion and I won't dismiss yours. I have a hard time following your logic that Chelsea fan's criticize and nit-pick Luiz's mistakes simply out of fear of losing him and his wonderful potential. I tend to think they simply prefer a different style in their CB's, and that's why they criticize. I also disagree with you that his natural playing style would be stifled in teams like Bayern and Barcelona or wherever he ended up. When a team buys a player for the amount they will have to stump up to drag Luiz out of Chelsea, knowing all of his well documented characteristics, I would feel really confident that they would be willing to let him be who he is and simply smooth the edges a bit. They wouldn't be looking at dropping a load of cash into a project that's already reaching their prime playing years.

I agree that Mourinho's hiring and the system he was likely to implement was always going to challenge Luiz and the signs were there from the beginning. I was looking forward to seeing Mourinho and Luiz adapt to eachother, feeding off eachother's strengths, and it hasn't happened quite that way yet. Mind you, I haven't given up on that either. I believe Mourinho has changed mentalities over the years and there is a place for Luiz in his team. BUT I think Mourinho is a little gunshy right now and he's looking for solid results first and foremost while eventually transitioning into a more fluid style that would among other things suit Luiz better, but that's another discussion altogether.

[nofacej 132]

Most of Luiz's mistakes come from a lack of concentration, not because he likes to play out from the back.

Carvalho was one of Mourinho's favourites and he also liked to play the ball out from the back.

Luiz has more flair about him, but I don't see any reason why he can't cut the slack passes out of his game.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

@The only place to be,

I just don't get why you seem to hate Luiz so much

Cahill makes just as many mistakes as Luiz...yet for some reason, everyone loves him.

Nobody hates Luiz (I hope). He's a Chelsea a player and as such, we support him. However, he is an incredibly frustrating player for a lot of us because of his inability to simplify his game and his tendency to try to do way too much.

The difference between the way people treat Cahill and Luiz is analogous to the way a teacher would treat two different students. Cahill is the student who isn't particularly bright but tries hard and gets OK grades. He doesn't have the most ability but he's doing his best. Luiz is the student who has all the ability in the world but doesn't do his homework, skips class for a couple of weeks in a row. and sometimes put together an amazing paper and sometimes puts zero effort into it. It's not always just about results.It's also about maximizing ability.

[Barbara 15,149]

Nobody hates Luiz (I hope). He's a Chelsea a player and as such, we support him. However, he is an incredibly frustrating player for a lot of us because of his inability to simplify his game and his tendency to try to do way too much.

The difference between the way people treat Cahill and Luiz is analogous to the way a teacher would treat two different students. Cahill is the student who isn't particularly bright but tries hard and gets OK grades. He doesn't have the most ability but he's doing his best. Luiz is the student who has all the ability in the world but doesn't do his homework, skips class for a couple of weeks in a row. and sometimes put together an amazing paper and sometimes puts zero effort into it. It's not always just about results.It's also about maximizing ability.

there isn't one thing I agree with except that nobody hates Luiz. The analogy is very unfortunate imo in the Luiz side of the things. He loses focus/concentration and makes mistakes. It's quite simple. We've been discussing it for 200 pages. Whether he's able to fix it with or without Mourinho's help is the big question. Implying he doesn't 'do his homework, skips class and puts zero effort' is just plain unfair and awful imo. But we can agree to disagree.

[The only place to be 11,313]

"Right" is in quotations because for some people on this forum there is only one correct decision when defending, one proper philosophy. Defend simply without complicating things and get the ball up to the midfield as soon as possible so they can start an attack. Yes that overly simplifies things, but the way people want David to play is overly simple as well.

And football is a very simple game when all is said and done. It seems to be working well for us too doesn't it?

I never implied that all British CB's are ball-hoofing neanderthals and you gave a couple of good examples of players who don't fit that traditional British style CB. However, the stereotypical style that British teams play include CB's who primarily sit back and play simple defence, move the ball forward to the mids/attackers and let them take care of the offence. This is not and never was the style that David Luiz plays. Fans, tv analysts, and the team are trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

Exactly. David Luiz may well be a square peg for our round hole.

When Luiz makes mistakes like that, nobody is happy including David's fans. We are all resigned to the fact, and are not surprised that he makes mistakes, and we temper that with his creativity and what he adds to the build-up and offense in our team. But there is a faction that is ready to pounce and throw him under the bus at the earliest opportunity while ignoring the positive plays he's made. There is a certain fervour that analysts have when drawing attention to David's mistakes while downplaying or ignoring others who make similar or worse decisions. When somebody makes a mistake that directly results in a goal, it is no different in reality to when somebody makes a mistake that avoids worse consequences. Gary/JT have played great these last few games, but they've also made mistakes which fortunately weren't punished with a goal. Does that mean they defended better? Statistically its black and white, but its not always the case.

See, this is the mindset I don't understand. Are his long balls from the back and free-kicks so great (how many free-kicks has he scored from this season by the way) that we should all be 'resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes'?

I'm just going to type that one more time because it is a fascinating thing to hear we should accept from a player.

We should be 'resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes'. Tell you what, that should be printed on the tickets so that when a guy works his bollocks off all week to be able to afford to bring his son to a match he doesn't get all uppity when Luiz throws in a performance like the one against Cardiff. Clearly any disagreement we have over Luiz is because I'm not so ready to accept this.

There's no denying that somebody is consciously changing David's style. Somebody is telling him to play less risky, don't make those constant runs upfield, stay in line. When he arrived, people thought the guy was nuts, he was so unorthodox, and that was what made him the player Chelsea coveted and spent big money to buy. He may still be that player inside and may end up playing like that under different management or in a different team, but for now he's doing what's asked of him including playing out of position. The way he plays now, I think we can all agree he is not playing to his potential.

That somebody might be Jose Mourinho....a guy not renowned for resigning himself to accepting a player making mistakes. But I do agree that he isn't playing to his potential, which is where the frustration with him comes from. If he was a limited player then no-one would care, but it's the fact that he is ONE OF THE MOST PHYSICALLY AND TECHNICALLY GIFTED PLAYERS IN OUR SQUAD (oh look, I'm a real hater) that makes him so frustrating.

No denying the clean sheets and stability Gary/JT are recently providing and I give them credit. But I think we all remember the disaster they were before this recent run. Does anyone remember the runs of clean sheets David has been involved in? Do I need to dig those up? I absolutely want Chelsea to succeed, even at the expense of Luiz, and if that means we are fed a diet of boring defence balanced by individual brilliance up front resulting in 1-0 wins from now until the end of the season then that's fine with me. I've resigned myself to that style given that Mourinho's tactics are reflecting that right now. I'm a Chelsea fan ahead of a David Luiz fan.

Well don't sound too excited about it.

I think somebody else here is oversimplifying and insulting me as a fan implying that I'm blinded by cool hair and tongues sticking out. I won't patronize you so there's no need to patronize me. I agree that his form this season as a CB is below what's expected of him, and I choose to take a different view of his play than you do. David Luiz is not playing well as a CB because David Luiz is not playing his natural style. He's been gradually adapting to a less and less risky and more defensive based game and you can see it in his eyes, he's not the same player as he was when he arrived. I'm not trying to place him up on a pedestal by knocking down Gary and JT. Its my opinion. I respect that you're giving him credit for his play in midfield and in honesty that probably suits him better under Mourinho's philosophy. My whole point of the previous post was to say that we are wasting him and when he leaves and flourishes somewhere else there will be some negative nellies here that will blame the board, the manager, the fans, the garbageman, the mailroom staff and say 'he should've been a Chelsea legend", but they are the same people currently riding on the anti-Luiz bandwagon.

So we have a style that the coach wants, that seems to be successful and seems to be bringing out the best in players like Eden Hazard, John Terry, Willian and Oscar but it doesn't suit David Luiz? See this is where the 'couldn't give a fuck' side of me comes out. I feel no great affinity towards David Luiz. I find most of his off the field stuff juvenile, although he is great with the kids and his charity/community work is exemplary.

I also think if he went to Barca then he'd fit in perfectly. He'd add a new dimension to their game, probably score in double digits and be FIFA TOTY for the next 5 years.....but I'd also fancy our chances against him if we got them in Europe.

Here's the thing though - there is no anti-Luiz bandwagon. Anyone who has seen him play knows that he has EVERYTHING to be the best defender in the world. He's strong, he's fast, he's great with the ball, he can intercept better than almost any player in the league on his day, he can hit great passes....it's those top two inches that are suspect and unfortunately they are the most important thing in football. It's why we're talking about a guy who will be 27 in 3 months time in terms of what he COULD be. Are we still going to be doing that when he's 30? Potential?

@The only place to be,

I just don't get why you seem to hate Luiz so much

Cahill makes just as many mistakes as Luiz...yet for some reason, everyone loves him.

Don't hate Luiz. Think he has every tool to be the best defender in the world and gave him a lot of credit after the Liverpool and Hull games.

I watch him play for Brazil and he is highly disciplined ,, rarely driving forward .. I believe people are deceived by his off the field antics and don't give

him the credit for having a football brain .. Perhaps he is the Brazillian Denis Wise ??? I hope so

Wisey never gave less than 100% and never bottled challenges.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

there isn't one thing I agree with except that nobody hates Luiz. The analogy is very unfortunate imo in the Luiz side of the things. He loses focus/concentration and makes mistakes. It's quite simple. We've been discussing it for 200 pages. Whether he's able to fix it with or without Mourinho's help is the big question. Implying he doesn't 'do his homework, skips class and puts zero effort' is just plain unfair and awful imo. But we can agree to disagree.

He doesn't perform to the maximum of his ability and makes stupid mistakes. I don't think it's even arguable. He's been making the same things for 3 years under 4 different managers and they are not getting fixed. It's not down to a lack of talent which is forgivable, it's down to a lack of concentration or effort or something else or understanding what he should be doing. My biggest fault with him is not his mistakes, every defender makes mistakes, it's his lofting the ball upfield 10 times a game. It's his wandering into positions that are ridiculous for a defender to be in. It's his shooting way too much. It's his trying to dribble past players as a defender. It's basic stuff that he should be fixing

[pachman40 357]

And football is a very simple game when all is said and done. It seems to be working well for us too doesn't it?

Exactly. David Luiz may well be a square peg for our round hole.

See, this is the mindset I don't understand. Are his long balls from the back and free-kicks so great (how many free-kicks has he scored from this season by the way) that we should all be 'resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes'?

I'm just going to type that one more time because it is a fascinating thing to hear we should accept from a player.

We should be 'resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes'. Tell you what, that should be printed on the tickets so that when a guy works his bollocks off all week to be able to afford to bring his son to a match he doesn't get all uppity when Luiz throws in a performance like the one against Cardiff. Clearly any disagreement we have over Luiz is because I'm not so ready to accept this.

That somebody might be Jose Mourinho....a guy not renowned for resigning himself to accepting a player making mistakes. But I do agree that he isn't playing to his potential, which is where the frustration with him comes from. If he was a limited player then no-one would care, but it's the fact that he is ONE OF THE MOST PHYSICALLY AND TECHNICALLY GIFTED PLAYERS IN OUR SQUAD (oh look, I'm a real hater) that makes him so frustrating.

Well don't sound too excited about it.

So we have a style that the coach wants, that seems to be successful and seems to be bringing out the best in players like Eden Hazard, John Terry, Willian and Oscar but it doesn't suit David Luiz? See this is where the 'couldn't give a fuck' side of me comes out. I feel no great affinity towards David Luiz. I find most of his off the field stuff juvenile, although he is great with the kids and his charity/community work is exemplary.

I also think if he went to Barca then he'd fit in perfectly. He'd add a new dimension to their game, probably score in double digits and be FIFA TOTY for the next 5 years.....but I'd also fancy our chances against him if we got them in Europe.

Here's the thing though - there is no anti-Luiz bandwagon. Anyone who has seen him play knows that he has EVERYTHING to be the best defender in the world. He's strong, he's fast, he's great with the ball, he can intercept better than almost any player in the league on his day, he can hit great passes....it's those top two inches that are suspect and unfortunately they are the most important thing in football. It's why we're talking about a guy who will be 27 in 3 months time in terms of what he COULD be. Are we still going to be doing that when he's 30? Potential?

Don't hate Luiz. Think he has every tool to be the best defender in the world and gave him a lot of credit after the Liverpool and Hull games.

Wisey never gave less than 100% and never bottled challenges.

I think for the most part as weird as it sounds we're pretty much on the same page. Luiz is better than this. The rest can be debated solidly both ways.

You cling to and emphasize my line that I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes. Well I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that JT makes mistakes. Gary makes mistakes. Mourinho makes mistakes, I make mistakes. I'm also resigned to the fact that when JT and Gary make mistakes they are given the benefit of the doubt more than Luiz. Was Luiz's mistake in Cardiff the first time a defender ever misjudged a pass back to a goalie? Will he never live it down because it resulted in a goal - in a 4-1 Chelsea win? Didn't John Terry gift wrap a ball to Hull last game in the first half at 0-0 but because we kept a clean sheet it's forgotten and our defensive system is a solid platform for our attacking players. If Luiz made that identical mistake you better believe it would be a 30 page topic in this forum but it got barely a nibble. The Gary/JT pairing was horrendous this season until this recent 6 game run you refer to. Is that all forgotten, and now they are our undisputed first pair? I'm very happy with Chelsea's recent defensive form but I'm not ready to anoint Gary/JT as our best pair.

You may not be on the anti-Luiz bandwagon, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're making decent points and giving a balanced view,. But I also think you've bought into the view that David's head is his problem where I think those problems are overexaggerated. In the end, he's too square of a peg right now for the round hole in Mourinho's current system, but I can see some changes coming.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think for the most part as weird as it sounds we're pretty much on the same page. Luiz is better than this. The rest can be debated solidly both ways.

You cling to and emphasize my line that I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes. Well I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that JT makes mistakes. Gary makes mistakes. Mourinho makes mistakes, I make mistakes. I'm also resigned to the fact that when JT and Gary make mistakes they are given the benefit of the doubt more than Luiz. Was Luiz's mistake in Cardiff the first time a defender ever misjudged a pass back to a goalie? Will he never live it down because it resulted in a goal - in a 4-1 Chelsea win? Didn't John Terry gift wrap a ball to Hull last game in the first half at 0-0 but because we kept a clean sheet it's forgotten and our defensive system is a solid platform for our attacking players. If Luiz made that identical mistake you better believe it would be a 30 page topic in this forum but it got barely a nibble. The Gary/JT pairing was horrendous this season until this recent 6 game run you refer to. Is that all forgotten, and now they are our undisputed first pair? I'm very happy with Chelsea's recent defensive form but I'm not ready to anoint Gary/JT as our best pair.

You may not be on the anti-Luiz bandwagon, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're making decent points and giving a balanced view,. But I also think you've bought into the view that David's head is his problem where I think those problems are overexaggerated. In the end, he's too square of a peg right now for the round hole in Mourinho's current system, but I can see some changes coming.

truer words were never said.

I even completely forgot about that incident because nobody mentioned it (then again I didn't check his thread, lol, only the live match. But you're completely right. Had it been Luiz, there would be at least 5 pages discussing his brainfart in this thread.

edit: hahahahahaha

mate, you're so right that checking JT's thread now there isn't one single comment on the incident. This is presh, lol.

People make mistakes as you said, it's just Luiz's are always taken in the microscope and blown out of proportion with part of Chelsea fanbase

[Azpinator 2,325]

Will this David Luiz ever play for us?

[Jase 43,479]

truer words were never said.

I even completely forgot about that incident because nobody mentioned it (then again I didn't check his thread, lol, only the live match. But you're completely right. Had it been Luiz, there would be at least 5 pages discussing his brainfart in this thread.

edit: hahahahahaha

mate, you're so right that checking JT's thread now there isn't one single comment on the incident. This is presh, lol.

People make mistakes as you said, it's just Luiz's are always taken in the microscope and blown out of proportion with part of Chelsea fanbase

I don't think you're gonna find a lot of, if any, bad comments on Terry, even if he makes mistakes. Take for example the one at Newcastle last season where his brainless tackle, which was very Luiz-esque, on the halfway line that led to Newcastle's equalizer. Hardly a word mentioned and all the focus then was on Benitez after the game because we lost and it's Benitez.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think for the most part as weird as it sounds we're pretty much on the same page. Luiz is better than this. The rest can be debated solidly both ways.

You cling to and emphasize my line that I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that he makes mistakes. Well I'm resigned to the fact and not surprised that JT makes mistakes. Gary makes mistakes. Mourinho makes mistakes, I make mistakes. I'm also resigned to the fact that when JT and Gary make mistakes they are given the benefit of the doubt more than Luiz. Was Luiz's mistake in Cardiff the first time a defender ever misjudged a pass back to a goalie? Will he never live it down because it resulted in a goal - in a 4-1 Chelsea win? Didn't John Terry gift wrap a ball to Hull last game in the first half at 0-0 but because we kept a clean sheet it's forgotten and our defensive system is a solid platform for our attacking players. If Luiz made that identical mistake you better believe it would be a 30 page topic in this forum but it got barely a nibble. The Gary/JT pairing was horrendous this season until this recent 6 game run you refer to. Is that all forgotten, and now they are our undisputed first pair? I'm very happy with Chelsea's recent defensive form but I'm not ready to anoint Gary/JT as our best pair.

It's how the mistakes arise that is the issue. It's the brainfarts or the lack of concentration that seem to cause them. When JT made that mistake against Hull at the weekend it was genuinely unexpected. When Luiz makes that mistake against Hull every one around me was thinking 'not again'. The fact that the rest of that game was fairly embarrassing and one of the least committed I've ever seen from a player wearing our shirt doesn't really help matters.

Luiz was actually dropped after that game as well. The next Premier League start was against Newcastle and he was not only poor in that game, he actually bottled a challenge. He was then dropped again after that and we started on a good run. That's what people are judging him on. We all know exactly what he can do, but until he does that it's still only potential and 26 year olds really shouldn't be talked about in terms of potential.

You may not be on the anti-Luiz bandwagon, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're making decent points and giving a balanced view,. But I also think you've bought into the view that David's head is his problem where I think those problems are overexaggerated. In the end, he's too square of a peg right now for the round hole in Mourinho's current system, but I can see some changes coming.

It has to be Luiz who changes.

There is no anti-Luiz bandwagon in the sense that he's unfairly targetted. People who pay their hard-earned money don't want to see a player putting in sub-par performances when they're capable of much more. That's where the frustration comes from. He should be much better but he doesn't play to 100% of what he's capable of.

Cahill's ceiling is much lower but he gets the most out of the talent he has. So does JT. That's why they don't get as much criticism. Luiz's lack of commitment to getting the most out of his game verges on dishonesty and that's the one thing supporters in the stands will never forgive and no amount of Instagram pictures will assuage that.

truer words were never said.

I even completely forgot about that incident because nobody mentioned it (then again I didn't check his thread, lol, only the live match. But you're completely right. Had it been Luiz, there would be at least 5 pages discussing his brainfart in this thread.

edit: hahahahahaha

mate, you're so right that checking JT's thread now there isn't one single comment on the incident. This is presh, lol.

People make mistakes as you said, it's just Luiz's are always taken in the microscope and blown out of proportion with part of Chelsea fanbase

Because JT makes them so infrequently that it's not symptomatic of a larger problem. It was a one-off that surprised everyone.

Were you surprised when Luiz made the mistake against Hull? Was anyone? Exactly.

I don't think you're gonna find a lot of, if any, bad comments on Terry, even if he makes mistakes. Take for example the one at Newcastle last season where his brainless tackle, which was very Luiz-esque, on the halfway line that led to Newcastle's equalizer. Hardly a word mentioned and all the focus then was on Benitez after the game because we lost and it's Benitez.

Because that's the way football works. Players are allowed to make the odd mistake but if it becomes something that happens a lot then a narrative is built.

He doesn't perform to the maximum of his ability

But the kids love a celeb who sticks out their tongue....it's the Miley Cyrus effect.

[pachman40 357]

In the end, Luiz has his current reputation, whether earned or not, that he's prone to regular brainfarts. It's the default, its the first reaction every time he messes up. This is reinforced by media, tv analysts, and fans. I feel like I'm going in circles, just like I'm sure you're feeling right now TOPTB. Luiz could string a long run of games where he plays well (like late last season) but the instant his brain lets out some gas then that's the rule as opposed to the exception. Personally I think his gaffes are absolutely no more frequent than Gary Cahill's but the manner in which they screw up is quite different given that they play different styles of game. Gary generally has horrible positioning and backs off so much that he's been in Cech's lap for so many goals and scoring chances against. But he makes a hell of a last gasp challenge to prevent scoring chances. People jizz over those challenges but nobody mentions that half the time he needs to make those challenges because he's out of position or he's backed off too much. Whatever, that's the opinion of some people and who am I to change that. Regarding JT, he's a legend, he's earned the benefit of the doubt and even though I could get into it a bit, I don't want to knock him because I genuinely love him and want him in our side.

Bringing up Luiz's commitment level and effort is a non-starter for me. If anything he tries too hard and that's what gets him in trouble, Every player in the world has off days and no doubt there could've been a game here or there where the commitment level was not up your acceptable level. That hardly represents a trend and that hardly represents an earned reputation. Maybe if he kept his tongue in his mouth and cut his hair to a respectable length, then a new fully committed and hard working leader might rise like a phoenix from the scraps of hair laying on the floor.

Luiz, for me, represents one half of the best CB pairing we should be playing, yes even now. I'm sure you'll disagree but that's my opinion. Mourinho is siding with you now, and I am more than happy for Gary/JT to continue with the clean sheets and bring success to Chelsea. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do something else, and that's why he's the best manager in the world, and I'm some shmuck typing at a computer. Nice debate though :tophat:

[Joshybizzle 109]

One thing that confuses me with when it comes to Mourhinio's system is why David Luiz isn't a slightly more key part of it, i know as well as you chaps do that he can be prone to the occasional error (sometimes completely of his own making) but he's a world class CB that's obvious to everyone otherwise you wouldn't have the likes of Bayern and Barca keeping a very close eye on him!

He's solid defensively and the way he can win the ball back, dip a couple of challenges (this is where his impulsive side tends to come out) and spray some pretty spectacular passes forward and with José's focus on the transition between defense and attack i can't see where Dave falls over. He's got incredible passing range and isn't afraid to try the spectacular, which he's pulled off quite often! He's comfortable with the ball and he can on occasion read the game very well, he loves the club and the city and he's got a very good work rate.

I hope José decides to take the same approach with Luiz he took with Hazard, instead of benching a player for not having the qualities you want (like Hazard's defensive work rate) you drill into them what you want them to do, use a bit of that José magic! Because with Mr. Mourhinio's guidance i can't see why Luiz couldn't work a couple of kinks out of his game and be a huge player for us going forward

Off topic

How awesome is it to have a manager of Mourhinio's stature who can just ring up players like Matic and Zouma and say he wants them and their response is simply, 'Mourhinio is Mourhinio'.. says it all!

[Barbara 15,149]

Will this David Luiz ever play for us?

I do hope this is not an assumption that the problem is his hair and his upbeat, cheery PERSONALITY (bc it's not only attitude). If that's what you're implying, sorry, K, but I think it's ridic...

An additional comment on this one. TOPTB said something along the lines. Most people agree the player that plays for Brazil NT is a different one, many claim they want that player to play for us. Still there's the hair, the tongue and even more playful jokes when he's away with the team, especially during isolation before important tournaments such as Copa America, Confed Cup and I'm sure we'll see the same before WC. that's who Luiz is, that's not a character like Cyrus (who was never like that before as far as I can say, don't follow the girl). So if the problem is his cheery attitude then why it doesn't affect his game when with the NT where he's even more playful off pitch than when he's with Chelsea?

Because JT makes them so infrequently that it's not symptomatic of a larger problem. It was a one-off that surprised everyone.

but my point wasn't that we should complain about Terry, but complain less about mistakes, regardless of who does them. I didn't say a word about Essien against Soton last month (except in a summary, in the match thread where the focus wasn't even Essien, but how Soton would have never scored if not for that mistake).

But I understand that's me and people are different. But if they're so willing about talking about a player's mistake, they should be the same about everyone else. Didn't Terry also fail in one of the goals we conceded against Stoke? Or was Sunderland? He does mistakes as anyone else, but as said many times, his mistakes and Gary's are rarely the big messes Luiz's are. Their are more subtle, but still mistakes that lead to goals or to exposing Cech...

I don't think you're gonna find a lot of, if any, bad comments on Terry, even if he makes mistakes. Take for example the one at Newcastle last season where his brainless tackle, which was very Luiz-esque, on the halfway line that led to Newcastle's equalizer. Hardly a word mentioned and all the focus then was on Benitez after the game because we lost and it's Benitez.

that's exactly my claim. I don't want us to start discussing JT or Lamps, or Cech's (although he doesn't escape the criticism despite being a legend to this club) or even Cahill's mistakes. I just think it isn't fair putting every little and big mistake Luiz makes in the microscope when the same isn't done with other, let's call it, fan-favorites. It's a double standard, but as TOPTB said, maybe that's because JT rarely makes a mistake (it's not that rare, but it's indeed less often).

Luiz had a streak of bad form, bad form makes you prone to make more mistakes. On his usual form his mistakes while noticeable because they normally involve a big mess, they aren't that frequent either. It's just that a lot of people has a microscope on him, expecting the mistakes, big and small and then that's all they talk about. Starting with the pundits.