David Luiz

[didierforever 7,349]

Why 2 for CB? Because it was needed like with Ramires on the RW right?

That shows flexibility then.

Anyhow I don't take into account injuries, but surely ban.

A player that gets ban stupidly is on him.

That's a difference then being injured or being ineligible like Matic in CL.

well, thats why i dint take into account the game he played as RW. the games they have started as CMs is 6-2 in a 8 match sample. should tell u a lot in that too.

i was not defending rambo. anyone who puts in a tackle like he did against villa, deserves to be banned. again, its all on your first statement and the follow ups. jose has chosen rambo over luiz.

[Special Juan 27,093]

You failed to understand my post. Thats why you though it was disjointed.

Cahill has been excellent this season, so this is the reason why Luiz is not playing as a CB, because at this moment there is someone better than him, but somehow people are saying he is useless because Cahill is better at this moment. Luiz still is a good defender, and he is sitting on the bench in most games because Cahill is better at this moment, but people still make a big deal of it. For me its a good thing to have a player like Luiz sitting on the bench.

One team is not made for one single season. I still have misgivings about Cahill form in big games: he was far from good in the 1st leg against PSG, and poor in 2nd league against Atlético, and I still have misgivings about his performance in a more audacious tactics (he was the CB when the team conceded 6 goals for Stoke+Sunderland in two games). Terry already is 33, at his age you never how he will be playing next season (thats why the club adopted the one year deal thing with players in their 30s) , just take Lampard as an example. He was really decent last season, this season he was useless, and he will be here next season because of his "legend" status.

Terry+Cahill was a excellent partnership this season, no one can deny that, but thats not a long term solution. Luiz still can be useful in that process, he is the younger of our CBs at the end of the day.

So, thats was an irony, for you.

So because Luiz is younger he can be useful? I'm sorry but Luiz was bought in January of 2012 and still to this day has not cemented his spot into this team. He has been far from solid as a CB and thus was moved to CM where he hasn't been much better.

Luiz is the crossword that has never been solved but I hear people saying he is outstanding for Brazil yet he has played some very average games for Chelsea to a point people calling him world class. This guy should be sold, he fetches good money, he hasn't fulfilled his so called potential here and selling him for 30M is like getting Costa for nothing.

You are saying that next season may not be the same and using the crystal ball method……I can do that, Luiz isn't a long term solution because he doesn't have a consistent position, does he? the rumours of him being sold aren't for no reason, I fully believe that Jose doesn't trust this bloke because for me he has been very, very inconsistent.

30M, I will fly the plane.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think it's a risk to keep only Terry and Cahill as experienced defenders.

Don't even start the bullshit about Ivanovic being a replacement. I wasn't part of his forum last season, but I know how terrible at moments all of those three looked (Terry, Cahill and Iva) and Luiz was by far our best defender.

Then this season things changed. Cahill improved, Iva stopped playing as a CB and Terry stayed healthy. Is it written in the rock that those three things will remain the same? We don't know if Cole is staying (don't think he is), we don't know if Luke is coming, so we actually need Iva as a RB (even with Cole here we need Iva to play as a RB).

So we have Kalas and Zouma and if one between Terry and Cahill (especially the former) gets injured for longer than a couple of weeks, that's who we're relying on? Kalas and Zouma? I actually do believe they'll be great for us soon, but that's a lot unnecessary pressure and that's not how Mourinho likes his defense. If Courtois comes (and I think he will), I think Mourinho will stick with experience more than anything else in the four defenders. Cole has been unreliable as a defender lately, being much more useful and trustful in the attack.

I can understand the money talking, I even agree financially is good business. Luiz isn't Mata. We can't even start compare the situations. Luiz is versatile, is much more suited to our system than Mata ever dreamed of, and Luiz had a dip of form that justified his absence. I'm not saying the deal won't happen. I used to be convinced through all season :Luiz couldn't leave. I'm not as much right now because he's the kind of player José likes to have in the squad and if he has a great WC and finds form, I'm still pretty convinced he's staying.

[bushman 2,043]

Luiz is a hoof ball specialist. Let him hoof it in Barcelona.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I think it's a risk to keep only Terry and Cahill as experienced defenders.

Don't even start the bullshit about Ivanovic being a replacement. I wasn't part of his forum last season, but I know how terrible at moments all of those three looked (Terry, Cahill and Iva) and Luiz was by far our best defender.

Then this season things changed. Cahill improved, Iva stopped playing as a CB and Terry stayed healthy. Is it written in the rock that those three things will remain the same? We don't know if Cole is staying (don't think he is), we don't know if Luke is coming, so we actually need Iva as a RB (even with Cole here we need Iva to play as a RB).

So we have Kalas and Zouma and if one between Terry and Cahill (especially the former) gets injured for longer than a couple of weeks, that's who we're relying on? Kalas and Zouma? I actually do believe they'll be great for us soon, but that's a lot unnecessary pressure and that's not how Mourinho likes his defense. If Courtois comes (and I think he will), I think Mourinho will stick with experience more than anything else in the four defenders. Cole has been unreliable as a defender lately, being much more useful and trustful in the attack.

I can understand the money talking, I even agree financially is good business. Luiz isn't Mata. We can't even start compare the situations. Luiz is versatile, is much more suited to our system than Mata ever dreamed of, and Luiz had a dip of form that justified his absence. I'm not saying the deal won't happen. I used to be convinced through all season :Luiz couldn't leave. I'm not as much right now because he's the kind of player José likes to have in the squad and if he has a great WC and finds form, I'm still pretty convinced he's staying.

Top post, but some just have an agenda against Luiz and will always deride him in any way they can.

[Henrique 9,133]

So because Luiz is younger he can be useful? I'm sorry but Luiz was bought in January of 2012 and still to this day has not cemented his spot into this team. He has been far from solid as a CB and thus was moved to CM where he hasn't been much better.

Luiz is the crossword that has never been solved but I hear people saying he is outstanding for Brazil yet he has played some very average games for Chelsea to a point people calling him world class. This guy should be sold, he fetches good money, he hasn't fulfilled his so called potential here and selling him for 30M is like getting Costa for nothing.

You are saying that next season may not be the same and using the crystal ball method……I can do that, Luiz isn't a long term solution because he doesn't have a consistent position, does he? the rumours of him being sold aren't for no reason, I fully believe that Jose doesn't trust this bloke because for me he has been very, very inconsistent.

30M, I will fly the plane.

You are wrong. Luiz was a starting CB since january 2012. Under AVB, under RDM and under Benitez. Benitez decided to use him as a DM because he believed Luiz was a better option in that position than Mikel, not because he was "far from solid as a CB". When he wasn't playing as a DM, he was playing as a CB. This is the first season Luiz lost his spot as a CB in the starting eleven. Thas a fact. Mourinho was the first manager to see Cahill as a better option than Luiz, thats another fact.

I'm not using the crystal ball method. Its obvious Cahill+Terry are not a long term solution. One is already 33 years old, and another one is far from a "solid rock defender" as some of you are trying to picture. I said it many times, Cahill+Terry were the CB when the team conceded 6 goals to Stoke + Sunderland. Cahill + Terry were there when the team conceded 3 goals to PSG in one game, and 3 games to Atletico in another. You need to analise the whole season. Terry also scored an own goal against Palace in a decisive game, you can't even say he was unlucky.

Both were great this season? Yes if you consider we are a 3rd place PL side, and got trashed at home in the semi-finals, and don't tell me they have nothing to do with the bad results this season, they are part of the problem. We need to improve in every aspect next season, we need a better defense.

I think if we sell Luiz and don't buy another CB next season, we will be in trouble, and the club will probably spend some millions in winter window to fix the problem.

And I use the rumors argument here as well: the rumors about BARCELONA and PSG interest aren't for no reason. He is not leaving for a small side in Premier League or to play in Turkey or Greece, he is leaving for a huge amount of money, considering he is a CB. He is not leaving for half of the money we paid 2 and half years ago.

It seems you really know one thing or two about disjointed posts, don't you?

[Henrique 9,133]

Top post, but some just have an agenda against Luiz and will always deride him in any way they can.

Its intriguing that the most loud voices against Luiz always come from english members...

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Luiz is a hoof ball specialist. Let him hoof it in Barcelona.

..hoof ball specialist?!

Where everyone says he's a 'better midfield player' because of his footwork, you've labelled him a hoof specialist? Cahill has 'hoofed' the ball away many times this season.. In fact everyone has when we've been pushed against it in the final 10 minutes.

He still has to work on controlling when exactly he chooses to carry the ball out of possession but his ability on the ball surely can't be going against him?

[Nike 373]

Pique went from scrub at United to world class at Barcelona, I fully expect Luiz to rise higher than Pique...

At PSG, I fully expect him to get the world class label as well.

Mourinho better make sure he has a better replacement...

[iseah100 5,612]

Pique went from scrub at United to world class at Barcelona, I fully expect Luiz to rise higher than Pique...

At PSG, I fully expect him to get the world class label as well.

Mourinho better make sure he has a better replacement...

Exactly. People talking shit about him now will regret when we have to score against him+Pique in the CL.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Recent rumour said that Bayern interested to buy Luiz too in around 25 millions.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Its intriguing that the most loud voices against Luiz always come from english members...

I'm sorry, but how many times does this member have to imply there's some xenophobic or racist agenda behind some people's comments before he's reprimanded?

Don't even start the bullshit about Ivanovic being a replacement.

It's not bullshit. Ivanovic is a very capable central defender and has shown it on numerous occasions, like at Liverpool a couple of weeks ago. He made a couple of errors last season but I would still trust him over Luiz.

So we have Kalas and Zouma and if one between Terry and Cahill (especially the former) gets injured for longer than a couple of weeks, that's who we're relying on? Kalas and Zouma? I actually do believe they'll be great for us soon, but that's a lot unnecessary pressure and that's not how Mourinho likes his defense.

When Terry was injured for a couple of weeks Luiz was drafted in. Fortunately the first game was against Newcastle who had no fight in them, although Luiz still made a couple of errors. The second game was against West Brom when he lost Anichebe in the 87th minute and he scored.

David Luiz hasn't played in defence since.

he's the kind of player José likes to have in the squad

We'll see, but I absolutely think he isn't a Jose-type of player and I think Jose has realised that ever since he dropped him for the second time in November.

[-Kaplan- 410]

well, thats why i dint take into account the game he played as RW. the games they have started as CMs is 6-2 in a 8 match sample. should tell u a lot in that too.

i was not defending rambo. anyone who puts in a tackle like he did against villa, deserves to be banned. again, its all on your first statement and the follow ups. jose has chosen rambo over luiz.

He chose oscar over mata.

But, everything he did was right, No? That's being 1-dimensional.

[lionsden 4,689]

So because Luiz is younger he can be useful? I'm sorry but Luiz was bought in January of 2012 and still to this day has not cemented his spot into this team. He has been far from solid as a CB and thus was moved to CM where he hasn't been much better.

Luiz is the crossword that has never been solved but I hear people saying he is outstanding for Brazil yet he has played some very average games for Chelsea to a point people calling him world class. This guy should be sold, he fetches good money, he hasn't fulfilled his so called potential here and selling him for 30M is like getting Costa for nothing.

You are saying that next season may not be the same and using the crystal ball method……I can do that, Luiz isn't a long term solution because he doesn't have a consistent position, does he? the rumours of him being sold aren't for no reason, I fully believe that Jose doesn't trust this bloke because for me he has been very, very inconsistent.

30M, I will fly the plane.

Not to be pedantic he was bought in 2011 which makes it even worse.

[lionsden 4,689]

I think it's a risk to keep only Terry and Cahill as experienced defenders.

Don't even start the bullshit about Ivanovic being a replacement. I wasn't part of his forum last season, but I know how terrible at moments all of those three looked (Terry, Cahill and Iva) and Luiz was by far our best defender.

Then this season things changed. Cahill improved, Iva stopped playing as a CB and Terry stayed healthy. Is it written in the rock that those three things will remain the same? We don't know if Cole is staying (don't think he is), we don't know if Luke is coming, so we actually need Iva as a RB (even with Cole here we need Iva to play as a RB).

So we have Kalas and Zouma and if one between Terry and Cahill (especially the former) gets injured for longer than a couple of weeks, that's who we're relying on? Kalas and Zouma? I actually do believe they'll be great for us soon, but that's a lot unnecessary pressure and that's not how Mourinho likes his defense. If Courtois comes (and I think he will), I think Mourinho will stick with experience more than anything else in the four defenders. Cole has been unreliable as a defender lately, being much more useful and trustful in the attack.

I can understand the money talking, I even agree financially is good business. Luiz isn't Mata. We can't even start compare the situations. Luiz is versatile, is much more suited to our system than Mata ever dreamed of, and Luiz had a dip of form that justified his absence. I'm not saying the deal won't happen. I used to be convinced through all season :Luiz couldn't leave. I'm not as much right now because he's the kind of player José likes to have in the squad and if he has a great WC and finds form, I'm still pretty convinced he's staying.

The only problem with your post is that it's based on the notion that Luiz is reliable at CB and plays like an experienced defender when the opposite is the case. bar a few good run of forms, he's thus far proven to be unreliable and very inexperienced bothering on amateurish level at times. experience is meaningless if it's not reflected in ones game. Even if it' true that we need more experience in defence, Luiz isn't a good example to use to present the case. Also the experience factor is not significant enough to justify rejecting £30m plus offer for a back up defender.

[The only place to be 11,313]

..hoof ball specialist?!

Where everyone says he's a 'better midfield player' because of his footwork, you've labelled him a hoof specialist? Cahill has 'hoofed' the ball away many times this season.. In fact everyone has when we've been pushed against it in the final 10 minutes.

He still has to work on controlling when exactly he chooses to carry the ball out of possession but his ability on the ball surely can't be going against him?

I wouldn't call him a hoof ball specialist because that implies he's a early-90s Wimbledon-style 'route one' merchant which he isn't.

But he went from being a player who always tried to dribble out of trouble to a player who would routinely hoof the ball away in ANY direction. It's like someone told him 'when in doubt, kick it out' and he literally felt he had to do that whenever he had even a moment's doubt, so you had this odd situation in a match earlier in the season (can't remember exactly which one right now) where he seemed to just punt the ball away whenever it came near him in the last 5-10 minutes.

Cahill is actually getting close to Terry in the 'underrated ability to pass' league. Neither is Frank Leboeuf (still the most beautiful passing defender I've seen - the passes being beautiful, not him....although when he shaved that last remaining hair off...I digress) but they keep it simple.

For Luiz it's not the ability to pass that is the issue....it's the judgment. Fact is you acknowledge that in your last sentence. He's 27. We're talking about the same issues he had at 23.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Not to be pedantic he was bought in 2011 which makes it even worse.

To me, in no way has Luiz been a bad transfer, simply because he hasn't depreciated in value. If we do sell him we'll still fetch £30m for him which is fine.

Also, Luiz has had a bad/average season this year, so naturally people will completely forget the strong finish he had the season before where he was one of our better players, with most of his good games coming at CB. It wasn't like he wasn't improving. Luiz has had quite a few quality performances at CB exclusively for us which some seem to have completely forgotten - suitably to their agenda against Luiz - but before this season started he was definitely our best CB and he was really set to establish himself as a top CB but he obviously regressed this season due to numerous reasons.

It's not fair to fully assess his CB performances IMO this season because he was never really given an extended run in. I think he only had a bout 10 games at CB which isn't enough at all.

It's simple - if he was as bad as some are trying to make out on here, he would in no way be attracting top clubs like Bayern, PSG & Barcelona (these guys aren't stupid), and he would in no way still be Brazil's (who have more than competent central defenders about) starting CB.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm sure some of his more devout followers will also try to propagate a myth that he wasn't given chances. He was. In fact he started more games in his preferred position (CB) than Azpilicueta did up to the start of November. In that time Mourinho felt he had to drop him twice and Cahill then won the spot on merit (like Azpi).

Maybe Jose has an agenda against Luiz.

Simple fact is that the shirt was up for grabs and Cahill won it with his performances whilst Luiz almost could be said to have lost it with his.

Maybe the stats are biased against Brazilians though (as one poster implied I am, despite me consistently defending Oscar on here...oh well).

Edited May 21, 2014 by Rmpr
Content moderated due to offensive language towards other members.