Politics & Stuff

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

8 hours ago, Vesper said:

lol, those cost projections are from the US Office of Management and Budget, also from one of the principal architects of Obamacare, and a shedload of other Universities and Medical think tanks.

if you think the US for profit-based healthcare system can keep operating in perpetuity as it does now, given the rates of cost increase, I have a bridge in London to sell you.

Try doing some research before you start up with the tosh, you don't even specify what is 'refuted'

What part exactly are you disputing, because assure you I will shut you down like a dodgy curry takeaway.

Centrists, lololol

A US centrist Democrat is similar a typical 1980's, 1990's moderate Republican now. They are neoliberals and centre-right pols who happen to be slightly progressive on some social issues.

The US is completely off its axis politically. The so-called 'centre' has been slid so far to the right that a big part of the Dummicrat Party would be too far right for a typical European centre right classical liberal Party or on the most rightward edge of them.

How pathetic is it that the best a nation of 330 million can put up for POTUS are 3 septuagenarian (2 of them soon octogenarians) fossils, one a pathological liar and a clinical sociopathic narcissist (Trump), the next a rapidly (in mental cognitive ability) declining corporate hack (Biden), and a washed up crank who is so thick that he thinks he can falsely self-label as a democratic socialist (when he is just a bog standard social democrat) and somehow get elected in uber reactionary America.

SAD!!!

 

 

Relax. Take it easy. This is a healthy debate. 

 

Bernie plans on spending 70-90 trillion within the next ten years which is double the size of the federal budget. The biggest concern with that, for not only the republican party but the majority of the democratic party, are that the projected numbers he's proposed are not realistic. 

No offence, but I will believe Economists with PhD's who refute those numbers, especially when a vast majority of them are democrats. Simply put, to make all of his policies work he would need even more revenue than he is proposing to fully offset those costs. It isn't realistic to believe you can get all those revenues from the top 1, 5, or 10 percent. It either has to go on the deficit or the tax payers.

During the debate, he failed to even counter the other candidates arguments on his spending plan. You bring up that research, I can refute that there are several unbiased statistical data that not only show the hidden costs of his medicare for all plan, but for virtually every one of his policies. Republican's refuting his policies is bad enough, but when there is a sheer divide within the Democratic party on Bernie's projections, that is when there should be a cause for concern. 

And again, I'll reiterate, I think the bigger reason for the separation is that a large portion of Democrats still want to have Private Health Insurance along with Free healthcare, not rid it completely. 

 

 

 

[Fernando 6,454]

2 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

 

I been hearing you can get some cheap flights. 

If you like traveling and don't care much about this Virus then it's worth taking a shot. 

Next month I'm traveling to Colombia, but it's not hit bad over there like other places so prices are normal for over there so far. But some places, yes flights can be very cheap! 

[Vesper 28,779]

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Relax. Take it easy. This is a healthy debate. 

 

Bernie plans on spending 70-90 trillion within the next ten years which is double the size of the federal budget. The biggest concern with that, for not only the republican party but the majority of the democratic party, are that the projected numbers he's proposed are not realistic. 

No offence, but I will believe Economists with PhD's who refute those numbers, especially when a vast majority of them are democrats. Simply put, to make all of his policies work he would need even more revenue than he is proposing to fully offset those costs. It isn't realistic to believe you can get all those revenues from the top 1, 5, or 10 percent. It either has to go on the deficit or the tax payers.

During the debate, he failed to even counter the other candidates arguments on his spending plan. You bring up that research, I can refute that there are several unbiased statistical data that not only show the hidden costs of his medicare for all plan, but for virtually every one of his policies. Republican's refuting his policies is bad enough, but when there is a sheer divide within the Democratic party on Bernie's projections, that is when there should be a cause for concern. 

And again, I'll reiterate, I think the bigger reason for the separation is that a large portion of Democrats still want to have Private Health Insurance along with Free healthcare, not rid it completely. 

 

 

 

I will keep this short and simple

there is zero chance that MFA would cost 70 to 90 trillion USD over the next ten years

that is literally DOUBLE what even hostile studies have shown

you got fed 100% BOGUS info, pure and simple

the current  for-profit system will cost at least 55 Trillion (and perhaps far more) over the next 10 years

if Sanders was going to literally inject 15 to 35 trillion usd MORE into the entire system, do you really think the greedy cunts would be whinging on?

hell no, they hate it because they no longer will be able to skim off tens of trillions in excess profits over that same 10 year period

 

also, just because the monies are paid into the government and the government runs healthcare does not mean people would end up netting a higher cost out of pocket at all

yes, their taxes go up, BUT they no longer have to pay premiums, deductibles, crazy high fees, crazy high drug costs, fees, etc etc etc,

the average family of 4 would pay around 10,000 USD LESS on total outlays per annum and never again have to worry about a medical expense-induced bankruptcy

a single payer system uses brute force scales of economy pricing structures and expense controls to LOWER overall costs, just like every other advanced nation (whether they utilise single payer or some other universal healthcare model) does

again, it is simple maths

 

cheers

 

[Vesper 28,779]

 Did Trump fire the US Pandemic team?

You're damn right he did.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

 

Did Trump Fire the US Pandemic Response Team?

As a new coronavirus spread in 2020, so did concerns about the United States' preparedness for a potential pandemic.

 

Amid warnings from public health officials that a 2020 outbreak of a new coronavirus could soon become a pandemic involving the U.S., alarmed readers asked Snopes to verify a rumor that U.S. President Donald Trump had “fired the entire pandemic response team two years ago and then didn’t replace them.”

The claim came from a series of tweets posted by Judd Legum, who runs Popular Information, a newsletter he describes as being about “politics and power.” Legum’s commentary was representative of sharp criticism from Democratic legislators (and some Republicans) that the Trump administration had ill-prepared the country for a pandemic even as one was looming on the horizon.

Legum outlined a series of cost-cutting decisions made by the Trump administration in preceding years that had gutted the nation’s infectious disease defense infrastructure. The “pandemic response team” firing claim referred to news accounts from Spring 2018 reporting that White House officials tasked with directing a national response to a pandemic had been ousted.

Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer abruptly departed from his post leading the global health security team on the National Security Council in May 2018 amid a reorganization of the council by then-National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Ziemer’s team was disbanded. Tom Bossert, whom the Washington Post reported “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks,” had been fired one month prior.

It’s thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer’s position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.

Legum stated in a follow-up tweet that “Trump also cut funding for the CDC, forcing the CDC to cancel its efforts to help countries prevent infectious-disease threats from becoming epidemics in 39 of 49 countries in 2018. Among the countries abandoned? China.” That was partly true, according to 2018 news reports stating that funding for the CDC’s global disease outbreak prevention efforts had been reduced by 80%, including funding for the agency’s efforts in China. But that was the result of the anticipated depletion of previously allotted funding, not a direct cut by the Trump administration.

On Feb. 24, 2020, the Trump administration requested $2.5 billion to address the coronavirus outbreak, an outlay critics asserted might not have been necessary if the previous program cuts had not taken place. Fortune reported of the issue that:

The cuts could be especially problematic as COVID-19 continues to spread. Health officials are now warning the U.S. is unlikely to be spared, even though cases are minimal here so far.

“It’s not so much of a question of if this will happen in this country any more but a question of when this will happen and how many people in this country will have severe illness,” Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during a press call [on Feb. 25].

The coronavirus was first detected in Wuhan, China, in the winter of 2019, and cases spread around the globe. The U.S. had 57 confirmed cases as of this writing, while globally, roughly 80,000 patients had been sickened with the virus and 3,000 had died. As of yet, no vaccine or pharmaceutical treatment for the new coronavirus. Data from China suggests the coronavirus has a higher fatality rate than the seasonal flu, although outcomes depend on factors such as the age and underlying health of the patient.

Readers can find the latest coronavirus information from the CDC here.

 

[Vesper 28,779]

Trump COMPLETELY self-owns (Nero, (even though it never really happened), anyone????)

Can you say coronavirus fool???

Fiddling whilst Rome (USA) burns, lolol

What a fucking truly numpty piece of shit

he has to be the stupidest US president EVER (deffo the most sociopathic and traitorous)

you cannot even make this shite up!!!

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

5 hours ago, Vesper said:

I will keep this short and simple

there is zero chance that MFA would cost 70 to 90 trillion USD over the next ten years

that is literally DOUBLE what even hostile studies have shown

you got fed 100% BOGUS info, pure and simple

the current  for-profit system will cost at least 55 Trillion (and perhaps far more) over the next 10 years

if Sanders was going to literally inject 15 to 35 trillion usd MORE into the entire system, do you really think the greedy cunts would be whinging on?

hell no, they hate it because they no longer will be able to skim off tens of trillions in excess profits over that same 10 year period

 

You are still failing to see the premise of my argument, which is the actual validity of Bernie's projections. 

Again, there are countless statistical data from third party, unbiased economists and researchers that state Bernie's projections are insoluble. He would need even more revenue than he is proposing to fully offset those costs, which goes well beyond any figure close to 50 trillion. He was backed into a corner during the last debate when confronted by the other candidates. 

 I could very well say the same thing that you've been fed 100% bogus info by Bernie and his research/media campaign. This gets us no where if the premise can't be acknowledged. 

5 hours ago, Vesper said:

also, just because the monies are paid into the government and the government runs healthcare does not mean people would end up netting a higher cost out of pocket at all

yes, their taxes go up, BUT they no longer have to pay premiums, deductibles, crazy high fees, crazy high drug costs, fees, etc etc etc,

the average family of 4 would pay around 10,000 USD LESS on total outlays per annum and never again have to worry about a medical expense-induced bankruptcy

a single payer system uses brute force scales of economy pricing structures and expense controls to LOWER overall costs, just like every other advanced nation (whether they utilise single payer or some other universal healthcare model) does

 

According to CNN, only 30% of democrats preferred a national health plan for all Americans.  To make things into a bigger perspective, only 21% of all Americans say they prefer a single payer system whilst eliminating private insurance. According to CNN as well, 71% of American's on private health insurance plans like their plans.  Why?

Americans like having the option of having their health, dental, and vision insurance through their employer. 

Americans like having family physicians and the ability to choose doctors. 

Americans like having short waiting periods as opposed to other similar sized countries that implement a universal health care system. 

 

Like I said, the better approach to win the centrists and moderates is to propose a medicare for all act without eliminating private insurance. 

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

again, it is simple maths

cheers

 

So simple that economists with PhD's from around the country can't get it. 

Right, when Bernie loses, you can refer back to this post. 

 

 

 

[Vesper 28,779]

25 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You are still failing to see the premise of my argument, which is the actual validity of Bernie's projections. 

Again, there are countless statistical data from third party, unbiased economists and researchers that state Bernie's projections are insoluble. He would need even more revenue than he is proposing to fully offset those costs, which goes well beyond any figure close to 50 trillion. He was backed into a corner during the last debate when confronted by the other candidates. 

 I could very well say the same thing that you've been fed 100% bogus info by Bernie and his research/media campaign. This gets us no where if the premise can't be acknowledged. 

According to CNN, only 30% of democrats preferred a national health plan for all Americans.  To make things into a bigger perspective, only 21% of all Americans say they prefer a single payer system whilst eliminating private insurance. According to CNN as well, 71% of American's on private health insurance plans like their plans.  Why?

Americans like having the option of having their health, dental, and vision insurance through their employer. 

Americans like having family physicians and the ability to choose doctors. 

Americans like having short waiting periods as opposed to other similar sized countries that implement a universal health care system. 

 

Like I said, the better approach to win the centrists and moderates is to propose a medicare for all act without eliminating private insurance. 

So simple that economists with PhD's from around the country can't get it. 

Right, when Bernie loses, you can refer back to this post. 

 

 

 

you are  beyond disingenuous and cannot back up the pure bollocks you are pushing out

a lot of it of it yank Republican or conserva-Dummicrat talking points as well

If you actually think that single payer (or a hybrid) healthcare system run along the lines of numerous social democracies on the planet will cost 75 to 90 trillion USD over the next ten years then I strongly suggest you give up talking about any sort of  nation-state level fiduciary policy until you gain a proper education

I AM NOT JOKING

I do not care if I sound like a pure cunt

I will NOT be condescended down to, nor subjected to utter fucking dross

and what part of Bernie never had a chance and I think he is a one trick pony CRANK can you not wrap yer brain around ????? He is a fucking sheepdog for the so-called American left

IM AM NOT A FANGIRL OF EITHER AMERICAN POLITICAL PARTY

2 sides, same fucking coin

you are so submerged into standard corporate lane-setting that you cannot see the forest for the trees

done here

I am not wasting my time on your gaslighting bullshit

[Vesper 28,779]

I AM DONE  ON THIS PART OF THE CHATBOARD

IT IS RUINING MY EXPERIENCE HERE

and is a complete waste of my time

cheers

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

you are  beyond disingenuous and cannot back up the pure bollocks you are pushing out

a lot of it of it yank Republican or conserva-Dummicrat talking points as well

If you actually think that single payer (or a hybrid) healthcare system run along the lines of numerous social democracies on the planet will cost 75 to 90 trillion USD over the next ten years then I strongly suggest you give up talking about any sort of  nation-state level fiduciary policy until you gain a proper education

I AM NOT JOKING

I do not care if I sound like a pure cunt

I will NOT be condescended down to, nor subjected to utter fucking dross

and what part of Bernie never had a chance and I think he is a one trick pony CRANK can you not wrap yer brain around ????? He is a fucking sheepdog for the so-called American left

IM AM NOT A FANGIRL OF EITHER AMERICAN POLITICAL PARTY

2 sides, same fucking coin

you are so submerged into standard corporate lane-setting that you cannot see the forest for the trees

done here

I am not wasting my time on your gaslighting bullshit

 

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

I AM DONE  ON THIS PART OF THE CHATBOARD

IT IS RUINING MY EXPERIENCE HERE

and is a complete waste of my time

cheers

Oh give me a break Vesper. You can't have a sensible debate without insulting or getting emotional when someone counters your viewpoint! I provided you rational and factual counter arguments. 

Instead, you've insulted my counter arguments in every one of your posts, ridiculed my intelligence, even said you'd shut me down in regards to this topic, yet have the audacity to claim I have condescended you?  You are a shining example of progressive hostility, which highlights the irony when those say only the right incite hate. 

 

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

Don't see the point of getting that worked up about the USA politics which is a billionaire club, especially when most don't live there and its all beyond our control anyway. Fuck 'em.

 

[Fernando 6,454]

12 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

 

Oh give me a break Vesper. You can't have a sensible debate without insulting or getting emotional when someone counters your viewpoint! I provided you rational and factual counter arguments. 

Instead, you've insulted my counter arguments in every one of your posts, ridiculed my intelligence, even said you'd shut me down in regards to this topic, yet have the audacity to claim I have condescended you?  You are a shining example of progressive hostility, which highlights the irony when those say only the right incite hate. 

 

 

And that is the irony. 

Calling other people bigots, racist, close minded, but when they don't agree with your view you get curse at call names and who knows what. Not very inclusive and open minded....

So I'm not going down that road, I rather follow what the bible says. Bless those that insult you and pray for those. 

That God may bless them and be merciful by giving them health and long life so that eventually they can see how good god was with them. 

[Fernando 6,454]

New York Post : Coronavirus conference canceled in New York because of coronavirus.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/11/coronavirus-conference-canceled-in-new-york-because-of-coronavirus/

 

Makes sense. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,477]

I see no reason to argue the U.S. political landscape. In 2016 we were presented with two of the worst politicians to ever run for President. You would think given the choices Gary Johnson or another 3rd party candidate would have done better. Only earning 3% of the vote. It requires unbelievable money to be a viable Presidential candidate. Bernie is and always has been all talk and no delivery throughout his entire political career. He captivates the imagination of dreamers, but has never delivered on anything. He rarely has a realistic platform and most of what he proposes, there is no plan and he cannot give specifics because they do not exist. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

I find it funny you folks are up in arms because of these so called high figures......you are essentially arguing about criminals, they are all same shit different face. The agenda and orders come from higher ups, these foosl that we see are nothing but poppets.

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

Obscene that just 3 US citizens have the same wealth as 175 million  of their fellow citizens added together.

Obscene that the US has killed 30 million people in other countries since WW2 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

32 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Obscene that just 3 US citizens have the same wealth as 175 million  of their fellow citizens added together.

Obscene that the US has killed 30 million people in other countries since WW2 

US is a shit hole, but a great tool to use. Look at all the shit the have done, all the secret coups and whatnot......yet nothing is done or said about it.

[Fulham Broadway 16,835]

2 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

US is a shit hole, but a great tool to use. Look at all the shit the have done, all the secret coups and whatnot......yet nothing is done or said about it.

Proxy wars, backing right wing dictators, and conservative estimates are that for every man woman or child killed, there are at least ten wounded or maimed

[ZAPHOD2319 4,477]

Lol at Shit hole. I have lived and traveled all over the world. The US is a pretty nice place to live.