Gary Cahill

[zolayes 14,489]

Disagree. Carvalho was the better defender for me. Even if he messed up, far from a frequent occurrence, he still had his recovery pace. And Carvalho was not flawless of course, though saying he got away with so much in the penalty area is a bit over the top. Desailly was the better leader but I did say looking purely at defensive abilities.

And I'd say Terry surpassed his teacher.

Im afraid I think you are wrong on both counts

just look and read his entry in wikpedia

[DYC. 7,542]

Im afraid I think you are wrong on both counts

Fair enough.

Though tbh, I don't like comparing current football to that era and further back. Watching matches of 10-15 years back and further, you can notice quite a change. That's why I only mentioned 'Abramovich CBs'.

[zolayes 14,489]

Fair enough.

Though tbh, I don't like comparing current football to that era and further back. Watching matches of 10 years back and further, you can notice quite a change. That's why I only mentioned 'Abramovich CBs'.

OK but it is worth reading about Marcel and I can tell you John wouldnt have been quite what he is without Marcel

[DYC. 7,542]

OK but it is worth reading about Marcel and I can tell you John wouldnt have been quite what he is without Marcel

I have and I have seen him in action. And yes, I've heard John praise Desailly countless times. But what JT has achieved for over 10 years now, puts him above Desailly. He's been an absolute rock, alongside whatever partner, and has lasted a lot longer than I thought he would. An iconic leader.

[zolayes 14,489]

I have and I have seen him in action. And yes, I've heard John praise Desailly countless times. But what JT has achieved for over 10 years now, puts him above Desailly. He's been an absolute rock, alongside whatever partner, and has lasted a lot longer than I thought he would. An iconic leader.

Compare their records

[Spike 12,049]

Why do people want to play Ivan as a CB? He maruads up the right flank like no-one's business and he has scarcely played CB in the last half decade. I know that some of you might use Sergio Ramos as an example of a CB turned RB turned back into a CB but we aren't discussing Ramos.

[The Chels 2,502]

Why do people want to play Ivan as a CB? He maruads up the right flank like no-one's business and he has scarcely played CB in the last half decade. I know that some of you might use Sergio Ramos as an example of a CB turned RB turned back into a CB but we aren't discussing Ramos.

Because then we can actually play our best FBs. And whilst he'll probably make the same mistakes at CB - backing off too much and losing concentration - he can't be much worse than Cahill and his staunch fans (including Jose) might actually notice his mistakes.

[LAB 1,030]

Obviously he needs a rest. Shocking performance, but that's not the end of the world for him. He is tired that's all.

It's perfectly fine for us to have Zouma replace him from some 2 or 3 matches. Not so sure if Jose thinks the same way though.

[Stats 7,056]

Can't wait for him to rediscover his form later on with us just to shove it in the face of some of the shocking criticism he recieves on here. I have no problem with the comments stating he needs to be rotated, playing poor etc but the ones calling him an average defender and labelling him 'shit' just

Even Vincent Kompany had his fair share of errors last season. It happens. I have no doubt Cahill prove his doubters wrong once again

[LDN Blue 7,903]

calling him an average defender

Isn't he?

Just because he does what you expect from a defender doesn't make him anything more than average. Making a tackle in defence and simple marking doesn't make you extraordinary or world-class.. That label comes from reading the game better than others, not making school boy errors by almost panicking when a defender is running at you. He's not shit, not by any stretch of the imagination, but for a club like Chelsea there's better.

People have been blinded for a while by his 'last minute' tackles. What most fail to see is that he's often the reason he has to make those tackles, when he tries to walk it out he's dispossessed far too quickly. He's very good at making ground when he has to run back, but he wouldn't have to if he kept his concentration up.

[AndersonBLUE 819]

He had a bad game. Not the end of the world.

[Stats 7,056]

Isn't he?

Just because he does what you expect from a defender doesn't make him anything more than average. Making a tackle in defence and simple marking doesn't make you extraordinary or world-class.. That label comes from reading the game better than others, not making school boy errors by almost panicking when a defender is running at you. He's not shit, not by any stretch of the imagination, but for a club like Chelsea there's better.

People have been blinded for a while by his 'last minute' tackles. What most fail to see is that he's often the reason he has to make those tackles, when he tries to walk it out he's dispossessed far too quickly. He's very good at making ground when he has to run back, but he wouldn't have to if he kept his concentration up.

That is just scapegoating him imo. When he has made these last-ditch tackles, please provide me the evidence where they were specifically his fault for being 'out of position'. If you are saying he is the sole reason, I completely disagree. Also I think many are just looking at his bad games and ignoring the many quality games he has had for us. It is not because he is English or the PFA being blindised that he was in the team of the season last year.

[Tomo 21,733]

That is just scapegoating him imo. When he has made these last-ditch tackles, please provide me the evidence where they were specifically his fault for being 'out of position'. If you are saying he is the sole reason, I completely disagree. Also I think many are just looking at his bad games and ignoring the many quality games he has had for us. It is not because he is English or the PFA being blindised that he was in the team of the season last year.

He was really good last year, no one will deny that, however things that are being said are not scapegoating.

The issue's and concerns are valid, im not convinced he can go out alone (ie without Terry) and the sample size so far backs it up, World Cup, the late RDM days, he has yet to show he can play at the level required without JT and sometimes can struggle with him (that's why I and other's cringe at the thought of him being captain) and until we see otherwise that will be a valid concern.

Cahill is a good player but will never be a world class one like Terry is or Zouma has the potential to be, I don't see the shame in admitting that.

[Nike 373]

He was really good last year, no one will deny that, however things that are being said are not scapegoating.

The issue's and concerns are valid, im not convinced he can go out alone (ie without Terry) and the sample size so far backs it up, World Cup, the late RDM days, he has yet to show he can play at the level required without JT and sometimes can struggle with him (that's why I and other's cringe at the thought of him being captain) and until we see otherwise that will be a valid concern.

Cahill is a good player but will never be a world class one like Terry is or Zouma has the potential to be, I don't see the shame in admitting that.

I highly doubt zouma will be world class. ZOuma is the lukaku of the CB position....

Physical god, but not so great everywhere else.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

That is just scapegoating him imo. When he has made these last-ditch tackles, please provide me the evidence where they were specifically his fault for being 'out of position'. If you are saying he is the sole reason, I completely disagree. Also I think many are just looking at his bad games and ignoring the many quality games he has had for us. It is not because he is English or the PFA being blindised that he was in the team of the season last year.

When I have time I will show you, off the top of my head I can't remember specific games and goals. I'm not even discussing this season, I'm talking about last season and even before. It's not scapegoating at all, because even when he was put on a pedestal here I was saying the same thing and so were others.. It's not a bandwagon movement. I'm not saying he makes this mistake all the time, as I said before, he is a good defender. He does his job professionally and us having one of the best defensive records last season was why he was in the team of the season.. I've never said he's shit. But he's not world-class and we can/should do better.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I highly doubt zouma will be world class. ZOuma is the lukaku of the CB position....

Physical god, but not so great everywhere else.

Too early to make any sort of assessment. Both that he'd be world class or that he's "the lukaku of CB".. He's actually more athletic than he is physical (have you seen the height on his jump for example?).

[Tomo 21,733]

I highly doubt zouma will be world class. ZOuma is the lukaku of the CB position....

Physical god, but not so great everywhere else.

He's not got the best technical ability compared to say Kalas, but in terms of pure defending, he is really really good.

Lukaku went wrong by trying to focus on his weakness too much (technical ability) and with it neglected his strength's a bit. The complete opposite to say Bale who accepted his technical limitations and focused on what he was great at, Lukaku should have done the same from the get go.

[Nike 373]

Too early to make any sort of assessment. Both that he'd be world class or that he's "the lukaku of CB".. He's actually more athletic than he is physical (have you seen the height on his jump for example?).

true. wrong words. i mean athletic.

Lukaku plays like a pussy for a beast. Zouma positioning and reading of the game is no where near his french predecessors, but his athletic ability is probably the best since thiago silva and mangala.

However, I highly doubt he will ever overtake mangala, kos, or varane in the near future.