Tomáš Kalas

[lionsden 4,689]

Well said. At some point you just have to take that leap of faith that shows the youngster you actually believe in them. Unless this is just window dressing to counteract FFP, in which case, fair enough. Fucking depressing, but fair enough.

I was delighted when Carlo gave those games to Josh in 10-11. It's all been downhill since. I mean I understand the reasons but I wish I wouldn't have to take a deep breath at the beginning of every season and murmur a 'maybe next year'.

Out of all the managers we have had in the Roman era, Carlo is the only one to have shown anything resembling commitment to the transition of youth into the first team. His sacking set us back a few years in that regard.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Another pointless loan. Then Zouma comes and rots on the bench? It makes absolutely no sense.

[Esam 60]

out of 38 matches .. can't we start him in 4-5?

it's a big risk loaning him .. no one can guarantee playing time or a starting spot for him .. look at Marin/Moses case .. or even look at Piazon/Atsu case! .. do you think they'll break into the starting XI when their loans come to an end?!!

Kalls has a chance to become a regular starter and it increases if he stays .. maybe not next season .. but when Terry finally calls it off we'll need him instead of buying a lusterous CB with alot of cash .. or worse! getting a Matic case where we bought our once very own player with 25M !!!!

something really seems wrong with loaning everyone .. espescially a Solid player like Kallas !

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Top posts here regarding the loan system. Being ridiculed by rival clubs I can take all day long but as a fan of this club it's downright frustrating to constantly see young talent mishandled in such a way that we have to spend ludicrous sums to fill talent we could've had by simply nurturing.

When a player is promoted from the youth team there's something special. The player is full of appreciation for the club, the player PLAYS FOR THE CLUB not his damn paycheck!! Sure they might move on, but they stay humble for their club most times. Look at one-man clubs.. Zanetti, Scholes, Gerrard and Puyol the adoration they have for fans and club alike.

Maybe I'm getting too sentimental. Kalas gave the game of his life v Suarez, the guy who won the Golden Boot this season. Irrespective of our tactics in the game he held his own and now he's going on loan?! Because why? He didn't cost £12 million like Zouma or doesn't have a £35 million buy out like Mangala? Ridiculous.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/chelsea-fc-transfer-rumours-news/2014/5/22/5741236/chelsea-defender-tomas-kalas-heading-to-germany-transfer-loan-rumors-news

I knew this was coming. He is to be loaned out a German club and later return, maybe, next season or so and will have to adapt again to English football.

The best case scenario will allowing him to stay and sending Zouma out on loan to an English side. Another loan spell does little for the improvement of Kalas. 20 games with this Chelsea first team under Jose will be miles better than 50 games with a lower mid table German team.

[didierforever 7,349]

ohhh... why? we were lucky with JT this season. may not be so next season. we need depth in the defence unlike last time. he should be here competing with zouma for the 3rd CB spot.

[The only place to be 11,313]

ohhh... why? we were lucky with JT this season. may not be so next season. we need depth in the defence unlike last time. he should be here competing with zouma for the 3rd CB spot.

Fourth CB behind Ivanovic if we get full-back cover.

I'd love to see Kalas develop here but he needs games and if he can get them in the Bundesliga then it's probably better than the odd game here. We also have Omeruo and Zouma who may well be in contention for a spot next season so it's not like loaning Kalas is us giving up on youth. Jose has had a whole season to appraise Kalas, so maybe he wants to do the same with Omeruo and Zouma.

At the end of the day he's only 21. He's got some nice momentum from his matches at the end of the season so he needs to build on that. He isn't going to displace Terry or Cahill.

[didierforever 7,349]

Fourth CB behind Ivanovic if we get full-back cover.

I'd love to see Kalas develop here but he needs games and if he can get them in the Bundesliga then it's probably better than the odd game here. We also have Omeruo and Zouma who may well be in contention for a spot next season so it's not like loaning Kalas is us giving up on youth. Jose has had a whole season to appraise Kalas, so maybe he wants to do the same with Omeruo and Zouma.

At the end of the day he's only 21. He's got some nice momentum from his matches at the end of the season so he needs to build on that. He isn't going to displace Terry or Cahill.

damn. i always forget iva. his versatility gives us some immense cover.

CB - JT, GC, iva, zouma

RB - azpi, iva

LB - RR/moreno/shaw, azpi

and a couple of youngsters like omerou and pva(?) as backups if needed.

makes sense.

kalas was really impressive in the oppurtunities he got. just really sad that 2 away matches in PL at anfield and carrow road and 2 clean sheets cant get u a spot in the squad for the next year. probably next to next season then.

[lionsden 4,689]

Top posts here regarding the loan system. Being ridiculed by rival clubs I can take all day long but as a fan of this club it's downright frustrating to constantly see young talent mishandled in such a way that we have to spend ludicrous sums to fill talent we could've had by simply nurturing.

When a player is promoted from the youth team there's something special. The player is full of appreciation for the club, the player PLAYS FOR THE CLUB not his damn paycheck!! Sure they might move on, but they stay humble for their club most times. Look at one-man clubs.. Zanetti, Scholes, Gerrard and Puyol the adoration they have for fans and club alike.

Maybe I'm getting too sentimental. Kalas gave the game of his life v Suarez, the guy who won the Golden Boot this season. Irrespective of our tactics in the game he held his own and now he's going on loan?! Because why? He didn't cost £12 million like Zouma or doesn't have a £35 million buy out like Mangala? Ridiculous.

We are doing our best demonstration of insanity according to Einstein "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

[dee25 1,044]

The problem with constant loans and using the development argument as justification is that, by the time they have completed the most crucial stage of their development out on loan (around the age of 23/24) a couple of things usually happens that ensures they never break into the first team.

The player either loses motivation or becomes frustrated and pushes for a permanent move elsewhere

We end up buying the the next hotshot, more established, more expensive, more glamorous, flavor of the month/year (insert your adjective here) player that plays in the same position which makes the loaned players become excess to requirement.

Managerial instability, the new manager has his own ideas and transfer targets and once you aren't already a prominent member of the first team, the chances are the loaned players wouldn't be in the new manager's plans going forward.

Another issue is the uncanny tendency to stockpile talent which makes the newer and more expensive talent more desirable. all of these factors renders constant loaning out of a player counter productive.

There's also a problem of bad loans where the players are ostracized leading to stagnation or regression in development see Wallace,Josh,Moses et al as the club they are loaned to have absolutely no incentive or legal obligation to play them.

I'm not against the loan system, what I'm against is the constant loans and stockpiling of talent. There's such a thing as overdoing it and becoming too cautious can actually be more damaging than beneficial. just my 2 cents.

God this post is just so spot on.

COMPLETELY nailed it, and the bolded part in particular is an excellent point. When we talk about the development of young talents, people just assume that giving them as much playing time as possible is the only thing that matters, but that isn't true at all. Nurturing their motivation is just as important if not *more* vital to their development. The danger in these multiple loan spells is that they can diminish any hope a player might have of breaking into the first team, and if you ask me, that's actually what stagnates a young player's development - the loss of hope and the loss of motivation. Not 1 or 2 seasons of not playing regularly.

You look at Kalas - even though he made only two starts, but at the same time he's had certain learning opportunities available to him here..... he's had the chance to train all season with players like J.T, Lamps, Cole, Cech; he's had the chance to travel with the team to Champions League games at stadiums like the Turk Telekom, Vincente Caleron Stadium; he's been coached by Mourinho all season and has had opportunities to sit-in at his tactical meetings. People might not think those things are a big deal, but they go a long way in mentally preparing a young player like Kalas, in ways that a loan spell at some random Bundesliga club couldn't.

Keeping him here and giving him 15 or so matches next season (which isn't unrealistic at all) will increase his chances of making it here than farming him out at [insert name of random mid/bottom-table Bundesliga club]. At the end of the day, bringing through young players is more about commitment on the part of the club than anything. There's no short cut. A club either decides to commit to giving that player enough opportunities to break into the first team or they don't. These constant loans actually becomes more like a trap than a means for progression.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maybe I'm getting too sentimental. Kalas gave the game of his life v Suarez, the guy who won the Golden Boot this season. Irrespective of our tactics in the game he held his own and now he's going on loan?! Because why? He didn't cost £12 million like Zouma or doesn't have a £35 million buy out like Mangala? Ridiculous.

Strange distinction to make between a player we signed at 17 for £5 million and a player we signed at 19 for £12 million.

Talking to a few coaches who are involved with top young players on a daily basis and what they talk about is momentum. Players at this age (18-21) need to feel like their progressing and being constantly tested. A lot can fall into the trap of feeling like they've 'arrived' at the party after what can be a very competitive experience in the Academy, whereas the very best youngsters are the ones who are continually pushed and pushing themselves to be better.

Kalas has a nice progression from being in the youth ranks, going on loan to Vitesse and then coming back here. He was unfortunate in that he got injured towards the start of the season and then found himself unable to get into the first-team simply because Cahill and Terry became too important to rest. Despite that he got to learn what it was to be a pro at this club, he got to work with Jose and he got to prove who he was to him.

The fact that he then got a couple of starts late on in the season meant he picked up a bit more momentum going into next season, but for that to continue I don't know if it's worth him staying here. Will Terry and Cahill get dropped? No. Is Ivanovic ahead of him in the pecking order? Yes, especially if we get a left-back (like Filipe Luis) so we can switch Azpi to the right either through choice or necessity.

So you're talking about a player being here as fourth-choice CB when we also have Omeruo and (in particular) Zouma who could both do with a season at the club.

I know this post isn't going to get many likes, partly because it isn't bashing the club and partly because being realistic about what it takes to make it at a top club isn't that fun but Kalas deserves a crack at having a career as the best player he can be. He's fulfilled a lot of those early steps, he's had a tough first season at a big club but he's ending it moving forward with some decent momentum. Now he needs to do it consistently and that requires either 25 or so starts here (which is unlikely) or a move to a decent club who will give him those starts.

But it's all about momentum.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I know this post isn't going to get many likes, partly because it isn't bashing the club and partly because being realistic about what it takes to make it at a top club isn't that fun but Kalas deserves a crack at having a career as the best player he can be. He's fulfilled a lot of those early steps, he's had a tough first season at a big club but he's ending it moving forward with some decent momentum. Now he needs to do it consistently and that requires either 25 or so starts here (which is unlikely) or a move to a decent club who will give him those starts.

But it's all about momentum.

I agree, the Zouma was bit was in the momentum of things

--

For the rest of the post I do agree for the majority though it's like Lionsden said, loan moves (particularly at this club) always seem to go into the direction of an eventual sale. Of course Kalas will appreciate the trust Mourinho showed him when he did play him this season at that alone will be recognized as recognition. The problem is, it becomes empty words when we give these kids a chance in the team then ship them out straight away.

Think about the young ones that have featured for us, then been loaned out almost immediately in the next window. McEachran, Chalobah, Kakuta etc. It's not about how they performed it's more like they only go exposure for the sake of it. They'll look at Sturridge as prime example of our lack of commitment towards these kids, Sturridge bided his time in our reserves and u21's.. Then he featured sporadically and then we sent him on loan where we eventually sold him.

I don't mean to suggest we should use Kalas next season for the sake of it, if he's not ready. I simply mean to say it sends out a bad message if we continue a policy that's never brought results for us. Terry & Cahill are in the forms of their lives, I agree it would be out the question to drop them when they're as developed as they are. However Terry is coming to the end of his career and like any club that recognises that we should be easing his successor into the frame. That will be (as it stands) between Kalas, Ake (unless he's seen as a DM) or Zouma (if he remains with us). One of these boys has to get more than 3 games.. It's sin not to.

I agree with you about learning how to be a professional of a club like this that demands your best week in-week out. It is a double edged sword too, on one hand if we say keep him here to learn from Mourinho he may not feature much. If we loan him out, he could end up being forgotten. I just think for the sake of our future talent not leading an exodus on us, they need to see that Chelsea will promote them and reward them for working hard.

[lionsden 4,689]

God this post is just so spot on.

COMPLETELY nailed it, and the bolded part in particular is an excellent point. When we talk about the development of young talents, people just assume that giving them as much playing time as possible is the only thing that matters, but that isn't true at all. Nurturing their motivation is just as important if not *more* vital to their development. The danger in these multiple loan spells is that they can diminish any hope a player might have of breaking into the first team, and if you ask me, that's actually what stagnates a young player's development - the loss of hope and the loss of motivation. Not 1 or 2 seasons of not playing regularly.

You look at Kalas - even though he made only two starts, but at the same time he's had certain learning opportunities available to him here..... he's had the chance to train all season with players like J.T, Lamps, Cole, Cech; he's had the chance to travel with the team to Champions League games at stadiums like the Turk Telekom, Vincente Caleron Stadium; he's been coached by Mourinho all season and has had opportunities to sit-in at his tactical meetings. People might not think those things are a big deal, but they go a long way in mentally preparing a young player like Kalas, in ways that a loan spell at some random Bundesliga club couldn't.

Keeping him here and giving him 15 or so matches next season (which isn't unrealistic at all) will increase his chances of making it here than farming him out at [insert name of random mid/bottom-table Bundesliga club]. At the end of the day, bringing through young players is more about commitment on the part of the club than anything. There's no short cut. A club either decides to commit to giving that player enough opportunities to break into the first team or they don't. These constant loans actually becomes more like a trap than a means for progression.

I totally agree. There's actually a pattern to the development route of the majority of youngsters that managed to break through at top to midtable teams across europe in the sense that their loan spell was kept at a 2 years maximum at which point they are brought back into the team and given proper opportunities.

At the end of the day, these players are human being with emotions and are prone to lose motivation and desire if not handled correctly and that's the point people who always pin the blame for failed youngsters on the players themselves as simply "not good enough" "cream always rises to the top", If they were good enough they would have made it" fail to understand. they are not robotic machines without feelings.

Crucially while it may be true in some cases that some players are not cut out to make it at the top level, it could also be argued that we do not give these youngsters the best possible chance of making the transition into the first team. sometimes there's a thin line between a "success" and a "failed youngster" and I fear we are not doing enough to bridge the gap.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

So now that we're selling Luiz, it makes a whole lot more sense to keep Kalas. We have Terry, Cahill and Iva as CB options with Zouma still an unknown quantity. Keep him.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I agree, the Zouma was bit was in the momentum of things

--

For the rest of the post I do agree for the majority though it's like Lionsden said, loan moves (particularly at this club) always seem to go into the direction of an eventual sale. Of course Kalas will appreciate the trust Mourinho showed him when he did play him this season at that alone will be recognized as recognition. The problem is, it becomes empty words when we give these kids a chance in the team then ship them out straight away.

Think about the young ones that have featured for us, then been loaned out almost immediately in the next window. McEachran, Chalobah, Kakuta etc. It's not about how they performed it's more like they only go exposure for the sake of it. They'll look at Sturridge as prime example of our lack of commitment towards these kids, Sturridge bided his time in our reserves and u21's.. Then he featured sporadically and then we sent him on loan where we eventually sold him.

I don't mean to suggest we should use Kalas next season for the sake of it, if he's not ready. I simply mean to say it sends out a bad message if we continue a policy that's never brought results for us. Terry & Cahill are in the forms of their lives, I agree it would be out the question to drop them when they're as developed as they are. However Terry is coming to the end of his career and like any club that recognises that we should be easing his successor into the frame. That will be (as it stands) between Kalas, Ake (unless he's seen as a DM) or Zouma (if he remains with us). One of these boys has to get more than 3 games.. It's sin not to.

I agree with you about learning how to be a professional of a club like this that demands your best week in-week out. It is a double edged sword too, on one hand if we say keep him here to learn from Mourinho he may not feature much. If we loan him out, he could end up being forgotten. I just think for the sake of our future talent not leading an exodus on us, they need to see that Chelsea will promote them and reward them for working hard.

The thing is there's no set pattern to developing youngsters. Each one is different, but luck/fate/whatever plays a large part in it. Kalas was unlucky with his injury at the start of the season, but then got a bit back when other players were unavailable for Liverpool.

Windows for players to get a chance can be small and there's no guarantee they'll come back round again. Romeu is a perfect example of this. He had a perfect chance to stake a claim for a first-team spot but suffered a knee injury. He almost certainly won't get a chance at this club again. Sturridge was a victim of the constant merry-go-round of managers who each had different ideas for him and the team. Zouma seems to have actually been chosen by Jose which is why he might have a better chance of stepping up (plus his physicality suits our team and the league quite well).

I also don't have a problem with us 'stockpiling' talent. I think in a post-FFP world it makes sense to try and acquire as much young talent as possible either to use in the first-team or sell. Courtois could net us a £15 million profit. Lukaku could get us a £10 million profit. De Bruyne got us about £8 million. Kakuta could keep the vending machines stocked at Cobham for 3-4 months.

[The Power 147]

Keep him here and develop him, give him time out on the pitch. So many times when we could've give him at least 10 mins out on the pitch but we didn't. We need to be using our youth, it's pointless saying "oh we've got the best academy" or the manager saying "I will use them" if we never actually do use them.

[Toli 977]

Keep him here and develop him, give him time out on the pitch. So many times when we could've give him at least 10 mins out on the pitch but we didn't. We need to be using our youth, it's pointless saying "oh we've got the best academy" or the manager saying "I will use them" if we never actually do use them

10 mins on the pitch wont get him anywhere. he needs full games, and he wont get many of them at our club, especially with zouma coming in. best choice to be loaned out where he can play every week.

[The Power 147]

10 mins on the pitch wont get him anywhere. he needs full games, and he wont get many of them at our club, especially with zouma coming in. best choice to be loaned out where he can play every week.

If he's out on loan, at least send him to a PL club then so he can truly adapt better to the way we play here. Going to the German league or whatever I have heard he will go to next won't necessarily help him more because he might have to adapt there, come back and adapt to here.