OneMoSalah

I know but the point is every trophy or even every rival game we should look to win no matter what.

Perhaps but I doubt anything can ever go that wrong again. Surely not.

Yeah obviously but its a trophy still. Slightly more competitive game than a dead rubber pre-season game in USA isn't it? Its not much but trophies a trophy and against Arsenal a big rival, still a high stake in my eyes. Saying its basically just a friendly is just to cover in case we lose in my eyes... It is a trophy though. No exaggeration at all. Yes but 2012, who was our coach Di Matteo? Jose is a winner and he will always take every opportunity to win any trophies he can. Its like saying losing the Super Cup to Atletico and Bayern meant nothing but if we won it people would of been happy we did. Would rather we won it and not Arsenal, as should yous and as would Jose. No point writing it off as a friendly because we lost.

Not every striker who suffers a huge injury is Torres though, which it seems like what you and other members seem to be thinking. He had a poor year at United, where in theory they had a mixed year, different formations, partnerships, never had a settled team to the last 3 or 4 months etc but honestly he still looked different from the sort of guy we are seeing here. He struggled with his fitness a lot last season too, which after a year out as well doesn't help. Not making excuses as I wasn't so sure of signing him but he is a good replacement for Drogba at least and he should be given a chance, a striker is judged on goals, his movement looks promising so who knows? We start finding him and he gets matches who knows, 10 goals minimum from the bench and rotation? Good to have.

You can call it a meaningless match all you want but it was a trophy at stake. Trophies a trophy. I'm sure he will let them know that. You can tell he doesn't like losing, he threw his runners up medal into the crowd. He obviously wanted to win. Losing it to Wenger? Even worse haha.

Well he has never been someone who has created chances or excelled at dribbling in particular. If you thought he was the complete footballer, hes not, hes a typical 9, a poacher... if he gets crosses/throw balls etc like at Atletico and Porto he will score goals. Its hardly like the Torres thread... I was against signing him but he is nowhere near as much of a last cause as Torres. Think there is a severe overreaction because of what he did or should I say didn't do at United last year.

Means fuck all as well if he makes a run and isn't found/seen. The same with Costa and Remy too. To say his movement means fuck all is wrong if the pass doesn't come, if he doesn't make a run for a dangerous pass/cross ok but its not like that. His biggest strength and attributes has always been finishing and getting into goal scoring positions. Torres' was his pace and finishing before he went shite. Falcao's is his movement but since its his movement it also requires that he is being found by team mates to score goals. Not saying its an excuse but you look at him playing here so far and hes always moving.

Torres came to us having his knee cartilage removed to play the 2010 WC, when he was already physically on the wane as well. More hope for Falcao than Torres. He is less a risk than Torres was in my eyes although we could of got another player in because last season he was ordinary. Still his movement is top notch, he gets on the end of things like at Atletico and Porto regularly and he will stick them in.

He won't like having lost his record, hopefully he will get another wide man or a 10 and a CM so we can improve our first 11 again. Think one top player that fits in to either a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 and we will be nailed on to retain the title as long as Matic, Cesc and Diego stay relatively fit.

Think with Torres maybe could be argued for but style was changed to suit him. Benitez seemed to have the team play a lot more towards him too but yeah with Falcao, Remy and Costa I agree. Still times when Hazard although not as often as Oscar and Willian hold on to it for too long, when they could look and slip these guys in.

Fuck me Cuadrado has the worst haircut I've ever seen.

People can say he is shite in big games but he is the only player we have in that sort of profile, someone who controls the game, a deep lying playmaker. We lose him and we don't have someone who can play great accurate long passes for strikers/wingers to expose high defenses, maybe Matic but not in the same ilk in terms of long passing.

Some of his movement since coming here has been promising to say the least. I think he will score goals this year, just need the guys who create to start creating for him because he is pretty much a poacher, he relies on through passes and crosses aimed for him more than anything.

Arsenal did to us what we've been doing to them for years. Soaking up pressure, not being particularly good and winning. We need a top LB to push Azpi and also another central midfielder, big fan of Ramires but think its time he goes or plays less frequently. Selling Filipe Luis, a Brazilian international and top left back and looking to sign some 20 year old Ghanian who had one decent season in the Bundesliga is so stupid its unbelievable. Azpi was poor today but if we had another guy like Luis, who is a top player, he could of replaced him. Cech had a good game but still not as worried about selling him as much as Luis. Verdicts still out on Falcao. People can say it was a glorified friendly or not but at the end of the day its another trophy and I would of preferred we won it and not them. Simple as that.

Coentrao, Kurzawa, Rodriguez, heck even Baines..... guys who we could easily go after but no we are spending 17.5M on a guy who is prone to defensive errors and dodgy positioning? I don't like what we've done in this window... at all.. just replacing what we've lost as opposed to sorting out right midfield or a number 10 and another central midfielder for depth.

Campbell, Gayle and Wickham have lots of PL experience which is also Bamford's biggest issue. I doubt he'll get in ahead of them straight away.

I seen Denayer play regularly for Celtic last year and despite winning the young player of the season award thing, which anyone who played for Celtic in that age bracket would normally win, he didn't impress me one bit. Even his distribution at Celtic at times was shocking, he gave the ball away a lot and his reading of the game isn't there as such, he relies on his pace to get back in to position far too much for a center back. John Stones, as much as I don't rate him as highly as others, is easily a better player and from what I have seen is better on the ball. Although he did score 5 or 6 goals for Celtic last year, which is always decent to have in a defender but still not that impressive. Celtic tried to play openly, with the ball a lot last season and Virgil van Dijk was really the standout CB there, Denayer was being carried at times, especially the start but eventually found his feet and played at such a level but hes not that impressive, anyone could really of played next to van Dijk at Celtic and done just as well if not better like previously under Neil Lennon... if he is Belgiums next big hope in defense (or even Citys) then I feel for Belgium (don't feel for City). To go from a Kompany, Alderweireld or Vertonghen to a Denayer is bad.

This is gonna be a tough game, no Messi and Neymar makes it a bit easier for us but still very very tough. Barca were outstanding last year.

Used to be very highly rated and I understand he still is but think he was Juve's second or third choice after being knocked back for Gotze and possibly Oscar. Think he needs to play centrally more, he was jigged about from in the middle to on the left and then managed to get a lot of injuries. Juventus will be ideal for him as they need a 10.

If Roma sign Salah, they can't buy him due to having their non EU slots full. I think Telles could be a better buy for us though.

It isn't exactly necessary as much when you look at the fact Matic and Fabregas are good on the ball as well. Also for every Luiz pass like that you have to also remember the several others that were forced and didn't come to anything, surrendering possession needlessly. I get ball playing CBs being important sometimes but honestly defenders are there to defend first and Luiz couldn't defend... Okay please enlighten me where did I say his distribution is better than Luiz's? Its more accurate because Luiz would always play needless long balls at times... I said Luiz's sloppy passing not Cahill's distribution is better than Luiz's.. I don't see who is better than Cahill, that is English and in the national team at CB? And well if you want to think Stones is better than Cahill on the ball that is up to you but really there's not much of a difference if there even is. I wouldn't take Stones ahead of Cahill right now.

What about the fact Everton move the ball much faster than we do a lot of the time too? Sure Stones okay he moves it faster maybe but we don't play a really really expensive game anyway, we play to such an extent but we don't mind slowing it down and taking the sting out of the game either. I don't think theres much difference in their distribution, I've seen Stones enough times to know one of his biggest assets is when he has the ball at his feet as opposed to his actual defending.

Hes in the because he is at the club but yes don't think Jose is that keen. Players form? Cmon he didn't drop Ivanovic or Azpilicueta once when they played poorly. He dropped Cahill for a few games yes but still Mourinho hardly changes his team. Having Costa, Remy and Drogba all out injured was a one off. Stones can play RB yes but still 34M for a player who in my eyes is really average, has to play every week anyway if he is going to be a 30+M buy and has to play to improve? JT is not going to be done this season...

We have enough defenders really after we get a new LB. If we sell a defender then yes bring another one in but its not an urgent need. RB: Ivanovic, Azpilicueta, Zouma has even played RB before. CB: Terry, Cahill, Zouma, Ivanovic, Ake perhaps although hes quite small physically. LB: Azpilicueta, new LB, Ake. Azpilicueta, Ivanovic and Zouma aren't all going to be injured at the same time. He is a center back, does he need to be a playmaker now or do what Luiz used to do and do needless 40-50 yard passes trying to force something. Hes more than comfortable on it, he will take the ball, hes neat and tidy keeps it easy which center backs should really do theres no point over-elaborating when your building from the back. Might as well resign Luiz if we want someone like a midfielder to play center back. Our issue was always in midfield with the ball, no deep lying midfielder with the brains or vision to make the team tick, now we have that and we are back again complaining about CBs on the ball?

Poor distribution? Cahill is just as comfortable on the ball as Stones if not more so. There is some sort of myth that Cahill 1) can't defend at all 2) isn't better than Stones and 3) has poor distribution where he can defend, is Englands best CB after JT and has always been an asset for us in terms of playing out from the back along with JT. Remember the days of David Luiz and his sloppy passing when he would play CB at times? If Cahill played for Everton and we had Stones it would be the exact same. Why aren't we happy with Terry, Cahill, Zouma and Ivanovic? Because JT is 35? Some of us thought we should of replace him when he played piss poor under AVB but now hes back to his best and despite being 35 needs replaced by someone who is inferior to all our other center half options for a hugely ridiculous fee? I don't think so. I'm all for buying a long term successor but not John Stones who's only England caps have come at RB, where at club level his competition is/was Phil Jagielka, Alcaraz, Distin.... like them, he is bang on average and not worth half of what we are meant to pay for him never mind 34 million. English players prices are ridiculous. I would have Phil Jones or Chris Smalling based on last seasons performances over John Stones. That is how inferior he is to our CBs and the other English ones in my eyes.