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The Skipper

9. Álvaro Morata

Started by The Skipper,

1,774 posts in this topic
49 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Fine to rip Bakayoko to shreds but people are "fickle" for doing the same to Morata, who cost twice as much.

Give it a rest

Whatever. 

As was posted earlier here, the chart showing he scored some important goals for us and won us a lot of points. 

A goal every 3 games in his first season dealing with injuries and a few appearances where he received only 5-10 minute spells. Scoring at a rate similar to Lukaku in his first season.

Keep swapping players in and out, get no consistency, don't give any players a chance to improve. Whatever. 

You guys are probably the same ones that complain about lack of consistent attacking play, yet won't give the players time to build with each other and learn to play off one another. 

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Whatever. 
As was posted earlier here, the chart showing he scored some important goals for us and won us a lot of points. 
A goal every 3 games in his first season dealing with injuries and a few appearances where he received only 5-10 minute spells. Scoring at a rate similar to Lukaku in his first season.
Keep swapping players in and out, get no consistency, don't give any players a chance to improve. Whatever. 
You guys are probably the same ones that complain about lack of consistent attacking play, yet won't give the players time to build with each other and learn to play off one another. 
He's an impact player no matter how you look at it. Did Juve & Madrid not give him enough time either?

We need a striker that offers something on a consistent basis, whether it be goals, assists or just a presence.

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23 minutes ago, Jason said:

If you want to start talking about titles, then Morata has won them ever since 2011. 

Incorrect. Morata only won TWO titles since 2011. Dybala won titles consistently since 2015.

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Yup, the "first season in a new country" is cliche as fuck but imagine if we had sold Drogba after only one season back in 2005?

Oh FFS. Again playing that tired Drogba card. Morata is NO Didier Drogba. Drogba didn't flop in his teams prior to his first season in Chelsea. Drogba was a one-off. What about Pato, Torres, Shevo, Crespo? Why can't you play those cards?

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My original point wasn't even about Morata being better than Dybala or Dybala being better than Morata. More of the fact that, despite his goals and assists, Dybala hasn't always hit the heights on a consistent basis. Putting Morata aside, even if we bring Dybala in, is he even guaranteed to be a success with us? Continue with this turgid style and players like him are never going to shine on a consistent basis upfront.

No it isn't guaranteed, but I have more faith with Dybala then our current supposed starman. Dybala hasn't been a flop compared to Morata. 

Obviously we need someone better, but I'm sorry, comparing Morata to Dybala is ridiculous. Dybala has been scoring around 20 goals per season. Morata? His max is 15. Morata scored 15 goals in 63 appearances for Juventus.

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2 minutes ago, Mana said:

Incorrect. Morata only won TWO titles since 2011. Dybala won titles consistently since 2015.

Morata has got 13 titles - 8 with Real Madrid and 5 with Juventus. Where did you get the two from?

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Oh FFS. Again playing that tired Drogba card. Morata is NO Didier Drogba. Drogba didn't flop in his teams prior to his first season in Chelsea. Drogba was a one-off.

Easy to say now on hindsight. If that 04/05 Drogba was playing now, wouldn't people be calling for him to be sold? It is a tired example but sadly, it's still a relevant one.

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

What about Pato, Torres, Shevo, Crespo? Why can't you play those cards?

Maybe because you and I view "flop" differently. Morata wasn't a resounding success at Juventus and Real Madrid but was he a flop? Not for me. He's in the middle. Just because someone didn't too well before doesn't mean he can't reverse his fortune going forward.

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

No it isn't guaranteed, but I have more faith with Dybala then our current supposed starman.

Easy to say that. If Dybala had been in Morata's shoes this season, you would likely be complaining about the same things.

12 minutes ago, Mana said:

Obviously we need someone better, but I'm sorry, comparing Morata to Dybala is ridiculous.

Erm, I think you compared them both to begin with. 

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Morata has got 13 titles - 8 with Real Madrid and 5 with Juventus. Where did you get the two from?

Titles is different from trophies....but whatever.

And most of those "titles", he was on the bench. Especially the CL trophies that was not certainly down to him AT ALL. 

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Easy to say now on hindsight. If that 04/05 Drogba was playing now, wouldn't people be calling for him to be sold? It is a tired example but sadly, it's still a relevant one.

No, I'll give him one more season because he is proven to score a lot of goals prior to moving. Torres is a much better example in this case to use, instead of Morata funny enough.

Morata is not the same, period.

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Maybe because you and I view "flop" differently. Morata wasn't a resounding success at Juventus and Real Madrid but was he a flop? Not for me. He's in the middle. Just because someone didn't too well before doesn't mean he can't reverse his fortune going forward.

He's a flop because he isn't good enough. His track record shows he is not good enough. He is not what Real Madrid were looking for (twice) and he is not what WE'RE looking for. I don't want a 11-15 goals a season striker as our main man. That isn't going to help you win titles.

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Easy to say that. If Dybala had been in Morata's shoes this season, you would likely be complaining about the same things.

If he scores around 20 goals this season, I don't think so. 20 is great.

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Erm, I think you compared them both to begin with. 

Yes, because you started arguing with 11Drogba saying Dybala "hardly been setting the world alight" like he's in the same level as Morata which is far from the truth.

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3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yes, because you started arguing with 11Drogba saying Dybala "hardly been setting the world alight" like he's in the same level as Morata which is far from the truth.

You interpreted it that way. I didn't explicitly compare them and it's never my intention to compare. Only wanted to mention that Dybala hasn't been all that WOW.

Anyway, agree to disagree. Ta. :beer:

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He has been wildly frustrating, The physical toll wore him down and then he broke mentally. He is a sensitive player which has been a knock throughout his career. His back injury was far worse than I think any of us know. The team has had a somewhat toxic energy which makes it difficult for even our best more comfortable players to perform, let alone a new high priced signee who has never played in the prem. Even Hazard has been inconsistent, every single player has been. Conte included.

I do NOT want to sell Morata and cut our losses just yet, He is too talented to give up on. A new coach will be incoming, he might play a style and inject some confidence into us. That is all we need. Our bounces and breaks didn't go our way this year, shit happens. Confidence is Key ESPECIALLY for a player like Morata. 

Many of you obviously disagree, it is a divisive topic. I choose to give players like Morata & Bakayoko another prove it year. Ross Barkley starts fresh next year as well. These guys have talent and were wanted across europe, we just need to support the team and hopefully the new coach instills confidence. No more suffering and defeatist attitude.  

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Saying that Morata scores every 3rd game is so terribly misleading. In saying so you are implying consistency which Morata has not shown at Chelsea (nor anywhere else for that matter).

To put Morata's PL goal scoring into context:

- Morata has scored more goals in his first 6 PL games (6; 3 of which came in a hat-trick vs Stoke) than in his last 24 (5).
- Out of his last 24 PL games Morata has played 60+ minutes in 18 games so he has had enough time to make a goal contribution in those games.
- Against top-6 opponents Morata has scored 2 goals in 8 games (10 games actually but I took out the 2 games vs City since he only played a combined 36 minutes in both games)
- In 2018 Morata has scored 1 PL goal.

...and these are only the numbers. Getting into his bitch-ass attitude on the pitch, his stupid yellow cards, and his missed sitters would just make me even more depressed.

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6 minutes ago, Jason said:

You interpreted it that way. I didn't even explicitly compare them. 

Anyway, agree to disagree. Ta. :beer:

Why are you backing Morata so much? Are you friends with him or something? Evidence shows he is not good enough. He's one of the main reasons why we are 5th.

9 minutes ago, akgw13 said:

He has been wildly frustrating, The physical toll wore him down and then he broke mentally. He is a sensitive player which has been a knock throughout his career. His back injury was far worse than I think any of us know. The team has had a somewhat toxic energy which makes it difficult for even our best more comfortable players to perform, let alone a new high priced signee who has never played in the prem. Even Hazard has been inconsistent, every single player has been. Conte included.

I do NOT want to sell Morata and cut our losses just yet, He is too talented to give up on. A new coach will be incoming, he might play a style and inject some confidence into us. That is all we need. Our bounces and breaks didn't go our way this year, shit happens. Confidence is Key ESPECIALLY for a player like Morata. 

Many of you obviously disagree, it is a divisive topic. I choose to give players like Morata & Bakayoko another prove it year. Ross Barkley starts fresh next year as well. These guys have talent and were wanted across europe, we just need to support the team and hopefully the new coach instills confidence. No more suffering and defeatist attitude.  

Morata is too soft then to be our main man if confidence is what takes to make him score. That can be said for ANY player. Moses is shite, but when confidence runs high he plays fantastic. We cannot rely on "confidence" around the team all the time. When the confidence is low with the team, it's up to YOU to gain confidence within yourself and be that person that makes the team's confidence go high.

Kante for example, while the team is shite low on confidence he still manages to do HIS bit and be a beast in midfield.

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7 minutes ago, Mana said:

Why are you backing Morata so much? Are you friends with him or something? Evidence shows he is not good enough. He's one of the main reasons why we are 5th.

Just because someone hasn't been good, doesn't he/she can't become better. Not everyone hit peak form at the same time. As I've mentioned several times, I'm willing to give him another season, based on the good things he did in the first half of the season. If he can become consistent next season, then great. If not, sell him. Our striker situation isn't exactly bright and sunny at the moment but we have far bigger problems in the squad that need immediate fixing - like the midfield and wide attackers. 

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21 minutes ago, Jason said:

Just because someone hasn't been good, doesn't he/she can't become better. Not everyone hit peak form at the same time. As I've mentioned several times, I'm willing to give him another season, based on the good things he did in the first half of the season. If he can become consistent next season, then great. If not, sell him. Our striker situation isn't exactly bright and sunny at the moment but we have far bigger problems in the squad that need immediate fixing - like the midfield and wide attackers. 

He's 25 Jason. Morata has scored 11 so far this season with two more games to go, 4 goals lower this record. He's not going to get better, and if he does, it's probably because of the whole team's confidence. Which by then, even Bats and Giroud would be fantastic options.

He had since 2014 to be "consistent". That's why he isn't good enough, and hoping next season will be different is very huge risk. We cannot afford to take a huge risk like this. Two seasons with no CL will be a massive disaster for the club, and it will happen if Morata doesn't break his set record of 15 goals per season.

All teams above us have at least one striker with 20+ goals per season.

Arsenal no doubt, with a new manager will kick Lacazette and Aubameyang to score 20+ goals because those two strikers are capable of scoring 20+ by their track record.

I know you love Morata, but for the future of this club it's too big of a risk. We have to drop him to the bench next season while getting a capable striker OR sell him/put him on loan.

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1 minute ago, Mana said:

He's 25 Jason. Morata has scored 11 so far this season with two more games to go, 4 goals lower this record. He's not going to get better, and if he does, it's probably because of the whole team's confidence. Which by then, even Bats and Giroud would be fantastic options.

He had since 2014 to be "consistent". That's why he isn't good enough, and hoping next season will be different is very huge risk. We cannot afford to take a huge risk like this. Two seasons with no CL will be a massive disaster for the club, and it will happen if Morata doesn't break his set record of 15 goals per season.

All teams above us have at least one striker with 20+ goals per season.

Arsenal no doubt, with a new manager will kick Lacazette and Aubameyang to score 20+ goals because those two strikers are capable of score 20+ by their track record.

I know you love Morata, but for the future of this club it's too big of a risk. We have to drop him to the bench next season while getting a capable striker OR sell him/put him on loan.

lol Like I said previously, agree to disagree.

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

lol Like I said previously, agree to disagree.

"Agree to disagree" when you know evidence stacks hugely against Morata.

It's like you saying the Earth is flat, evidence shows it's round and you say "agree to disagree". Cop out.

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3 minutes ago, Mana said:

"Agree to disagree" when you know evidence stacks hugely against Morata.

It's like you saying the Earth is flat, evidence shows it's round and you say "agree to disagree". Cop out.

Your stats say Morata isn't good but since when they became a sure thing to judge how that person will turn out? It's like saying someone will guarantee fail in life because he or she constantly fails exams in school. Not even sure why you are continuing this when we are not going to be on the same page. I know you think Morata isn't good and needs to be replaced but are you really that desperate to get others on board with you? 

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

give the players time to build with each other and learn to play off one another

That is a very good point and the reason I think why our youth teams are so good. Theyve grown up together since they were very young.

But its a very hard thing to do if you want to win trophies and have a owner who demands it.

IF we was a mid table club with no expectations we could bring in youth,experiment with players,formations etc. Give players a chance to gell together.

But you see our 'supporters' here for instance.

Half moan like fuck for using the same players and the other half moan like fuck if we use any form of rotation!!

A manager just cant win.

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10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Your stats say Morata isn't good but since when they became a sure thing to judge how that person will turn out? It's like saying someone will guarantee fail in life because he or she constantly fails exams in school. Not even sure why you are continuing this when we are not going to be on the same page. I know you think Morata isn't good and needs to be replaced but are you really that desperate to get others on board with you? 

No, I'm not desperate. It's just I'm tired of seeing you defend Morata like this as if he is a fantastic player in the past. Overall, he wasn't.

Sure he can somehow (and I mean somehow) blossom to this god-fearing striker we hope he can be. But we gave him a chance this season. Failed.

Next season, it's too much of a risk for Chelsea FC. As I said, two seasons with no CL will damage us, as sponsors will begin to pull out. We can't afford Morata to flop again next season, and evidence shows he is more likely to flop again.

If the club keeps him as our main man and scores 20+ goals next season, I promise to put down £100 to TC. Because I'm confident he won't because that is a massive step for him to reach that number.

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1 minute ago, Mana said:

No, I'm not desperate. It's just I'm tired of seeing you defend Morata like this as if he is a fantastic player in the past. Overall, he wasn't.

I didn't. Only said willing to give him a chance because of the good things he did in the first half of the season. 

And I'm also tired (it has been 3 very long days...) of you dragging this out. You've made your point. I've made mine. Can't we just be friends and talk about something else already? 😭

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

talk about something else already?

As if we dont have enough things that need sorting eh. Whats another one going to make any difference lol

None of these things we are all talking about will make a blind bit of difference until the managers job is sorted.

We dont know what sort of formation he mainly uses, player types he likes - nothing.

All we can hope is him and our luvly board manage somehow to work together to out a team together and make a effort next season.

Alot of luck and money is needed.

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Maybe our next manager plays 2 forwards? Morata in a supporting striker role could be something else than Morata the lone striker. He doesn't seem to be the type to lead an attack. A lone striker needs to be a ruthless badass not swayed by tiniest contacts, and more importantly a ruthless finisher. He is neither. In lone striker role I prefer Giroud anyway, this much 2018 has proved.

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