The English Football Thread

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

What I dont get as well is people expected us to drop points at City, then we won. So dropping points at Arsenal despite the frustration realistically is the points people expected us to drop at City. We win the next 2 league games it will all be good. 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

What I dont get as well is people expected us to drop points at City, then we won. So dropping points at Arsenal despite the frustration realistically is the points people expected us to drop at City. We win the next 2 league games it will all be good. 

If we don't win this Saturday's final, I can see the team losing their heads in the next league game and then god knows what will happen in the last one...

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

What I dont get as well is people expected us to drop points at City, then we won. So dropping points at Arsenal despite the frustration realistically is the points people expected us to drop at City. We win the next 2 league games it will all be good. 

yeah but we also did not expect manure to roll over like this and get spanked at home by our two main threats. pathetic club.

[Vesper 30,169]

13 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

3rd season in a row I see people going nuts over top4 and doing math... I am just relaxed and both previous times it was all fine with Sarri and Lamps, it will be the same again. Why so dramatic? 

because its a different schedule and pool have insanely easy run it, plus we are missing key players

it doesn't take a lot of maths to look at 2 games, especially as one of them is against a main rival

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 17 minutos, Jas dijo:

If we don't win this Saturday's final, I can see the team losing their heads in the next league game and then god knows what will happen in the last one...

Honestly I hope not.

But even then I think if we lose the cup final then it still means we make the CL realistically as it will be used as sufficient motivation on the following game and I would think it will be hammered home by Tuchel what is to be expected. Even then I still think we will win the FA cup. 

Leicester are a good team but they’ve shown they don’t have the bottle this season and last season in the run in dropping points, so don’t write that off yet either. In their last 11 league games theyve only won 5, drawing 2 and losing 4 v Arsenal, City, West Ham, Newcastle IIRC. With United being the only decent team they’ve beaten in that run also. 

I think people are easily throwing away what we have did from when TT came in/what we can still do based on 2 poor results. Some of the reactions yesterday were hysterically over the top. Like Arsenal TV style reactions.

hace 15 minutos, Magic Lamps dijo:

yeah but we also did not expect manure to roll over like this and get spanked at home by our two main threats. pathetic club.

Its still in our hands. Lets be clear, regardless of the results, the game v Leicester next week is huge. Always has been. Win there and win v Villa and it will be enough. 100%.

Edited May 13, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Laylabelle 9,534]

Don't think so much of a case of Man U giving up..Liverpool played how they did last season.. they just haven't done that much this season. I dont many expected that result! 

[chippy 342]

This week has been as enjoyable as a wet weekend in Rotherham.

Fuck Manure, you useless bag of shire.

[chippy 342]

Just now, chippy said:

This week has been as enjoyable as a wet weekend in Rotherham.

Fuck Manure, you useless bag of poo.

 

[Fulham Broadway 17,312]

Oh well. At least Utd gave the vermin a taste of their own medicine and slashed the tyres of their coach.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

18 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Oh well. At least Utd gave the vermin a taste of their own medicine and slashed the tyres of their coach.

if only they had done so before the pool team actually took off and not after they had long arrived in manchester.

[chippy 342]

See us as third favs for top four now and most likely between us and Leicester for the other place.

They can sit back,  play for a draw but hit us hard on the break. One goal against us in either game and we're probably done for.

Still, no excuses if we fail. With a way below par Liverpool, bang average Utd, Spurs being Spurs and Arsenal crapper than ever, we should have strolled to top four. TT tightened up the defence but has sadly been unable to make even the slightest bit of improvement to the dull midfield or our joke attack and only a bit of improvement would have been needed. 

Regardless of what happens, we need significant improvements from most of the current set of players. Puli, CHO, Werner, Kai, James, Kova, Chilwell, Jorgi, Ziyech, Alonso, should all be playing for a future at Chelsea next season.

 

 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

15 minutes ago, chippy said:

See us as third favs for top four now and most likely between us and Leicester for the other place.

They can sit back,  play for a draw but hit us hard on the break. One goal against us in either game and we're probably done for.

Still, no excuses if we fail. With a way below par Liverpool, bang average Utd, Spurs being Spurs and Arsenal crapper than ever, we should have strolled to top four. TT tightened up the defence but has sadly been unable to make even the slightest bit of improvement to the dull midfield or our joke attack and only a bit of improvement would have been needed. 

Regardless of what happens, we need significant improvements from most of the current set of players. Puli, CHO, Werner, Kai, James, Kova, Chilwell, Jorgi, Ziyech, Alonso, should all be playing for a future at Chelsea next season.

 

 

We actually have regressed massively in attack. We creating fewer chances and our finishing is even worse than before. We need acres of space to string together attacks. This we look bette Eva the big sides who try to play football. Small clubs like Arsenal who will just let the bus will always give us problems cos you can count on us to waste 3,4 easy chances per game and you are not gonna get a lot more vs 11 men camped in their own box. 

[NikkiCFC 8,318]

31 minutes ago, chippy said:

See us as third favs for top four now and most likely between us and Leicester for the other place.

They can sit back,  play for a draw but hit us hard on the break. One goal against us in either game and we're probably done for.

Still, no excuses if we fail. With a way below par Liverpool, bang average Utd, Spurs being Spurs and Arsenal crapper than ever, we should have strolled to top four. TT tightened up the defence but has sadly been unable to make even the slightest bit of improvement to the dull midfield or our joke attack and only a bit of improvement would have been needed. 

Regardless of what happens, we need significant improvements from most of the current set of players. Puli, CHO, Werner, Kai, James, Kova, Chilwell, Jorgi, Ziyech, Alonso, should all be playing for a future at Chelsea next season.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

We actually have regressed massively in attack. We creating fewer chances and our finishing is even worse than before. We need acres of space to string together attacks. This we look bette Eva the big sides who try to play football. Small clubs like Arsenal who will just let the bus will always give us problems cos you can count on us to waste 3,4 easy chances per game and you are not gonna get a lot more vs 11 men camped in their own box. 

This is unreal 🤣

Reading this you would think we are some mid table team which we were under Lampard...

Last week was maybe best week for our club in the last almost decade and I read this... We beat biggest club in the world in CL semi final and at the moment best team on planet away 3 days later...

Looks like you could not wait for us to lose some random game with a lot of rotation? Individual mistake in defense, Kai missing sitter, maybe pen not given to us, two times hit the post... How is this game against Arsenal different then many other games we won? Tuchel has nothing to do with our attackers missing sitters and some other individual mistakes which Jorginho did against Arse and WBA.

 

Lamps left us 9th or 10th at table. With Tuchel we are 2nd with only City being ahead but we beat them twice! With Frank those games were lost before they even begin.

We are worse now? 2 losses under Tuchel came because red card, Jorginho individual mistakes in front of our goal, from what we saw yesterday we should have won that game but also game in Leeds.

Go watch again losses with Frank. 5 in 8 rounds. We lost those games because opponents were much better, Arse, City and LC destroyed us! 

No slightest improvement in midfield? Go watch LC 2:0 loss again, we did not even had MF area... Now we control the games with a lot of possession and apart from Jorginho against WBA and Arse our MFs did not put foot wrong this season under Tuchel.

Attack is a problem yes because we have bad conversation rate. Havartz and Werner score just under 25% of big chances they have but when they improve and go at least 60% (and they will) they will be considered best players in the league. Also I think Kai, Puli, Hakim and Mount all improved their performances this season under Tuchel. They all scored more goals with him. Kai put 4 or 5 world class performances under Tuchel - zero under Lamps.

 

[chippy 342]

40 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

We actually have regressed massively in attack. We creating fewer chances and our finishing is even worse than before. We need acres of space to string together attacks. This we look bette Eva the big sides who try to play football. Small clubs like Arsenal who will just let the bus will always give us problems cos you can count on us to waste 3,4 easy chances per game and you are not gonna get a lot more vs 11 men camped in their own box. 

Yes.

Also, fans keep asking why we take so fee shots from outside the box. Apart from not having many players who can shoot well, our build up play is too slow and ad you said, the box I'd often crammed with players. Very hard to score when there's not much room to shoot thru or past, so we tend to make yet another pass.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

14 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

This is unreal 🤣

Reading this you would think we are some mid table team which we were under Lampard...

Last week was maybe best week for our club in the last almost decade and I read this... We beat biggest club in the world in CL semi final and at the moment best team on planet away 3 days later...

Looks like you could not wait for us to lose some random game with a lot of rotation? Individual mistake in defense, Kai missing sitter, maybe pen not given to us, two times hit the post... How is this game against Arsenal different then many other games we won? Tuchel has nothing to do with our attackers missing sitters and some other individual mistakes which Jorginho did against Arse and WBA.

 

Lamps left us 9th or 10th at table. With Tuchel we are 2nd with only City being ahead but we beat them twice! With Frank those games were lost before they even begin.

We are worse now? 2 losses under Tuchel came because red card, Jorginho individual mistakes in front of our goal, from what we saw yesterday we should have won that game but also game in Leeds.

Go watch again losses with Frank. 5 in 8 rounds. We lost those games because opponents were much better, Arse, City and LC destroyed us! 

No slightest improvement in midfield? Go watch LC 2:0 loss again, we did not even had MF area... Now we control the games with a lot of possession and apart from Jorginho against WBA and Arse our MFs did not put foot wrong this season under Tuchel.

Attack is a problem yes because we have bad conversation rate. Havartz and Werner score just under 25% of big chances they have but when they improve and go at least 60% (and they will) they will be considered best players in the league. Also I think Kai, Puli, Hakim and Mount all improved their performances this season under Tuchel. They all scored more goals with him. Kai put 4 or 5 world class performances under Tuchel - zero under Lamps.

 

the achievement of the past week have been noted and celebrated. But we have won nohting yet. Ofc we are a much better side, a much improved team than under Lamps, there is no denying that. TT has transformed us. But all this is worth shit if we dont win a title or at least qualify for CL. So why should a week where the points I made were most evident, namely us needing tons of chances and acres of space to score as we demonstrated vs City and Real disprove it?

I would agree our midfield has improved a lot as has our defence but my point remains - and you seem to agree, so I am not sure why you are laughing - our offence is terrible at converting chances and creating vs thick buses.

Kai has not improved under TT, he is actually only recovering some of his form he had for Leverkusen. he had long covid before so it is not fair to compare his performances with the ones from q4/2020. Mount,Pulisic are young players in development. I dont think TT has been too much of a factor in a sense that Lampard would not have been. Ziyech imo has been poor under TT apart from very few games, same under Lampard. So yeah overall our attacking output has regressed massively even though individual performances are somewhat the same.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Magic Lamps

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

hace 1 hora, Magic Lamps dijo:

We actually have regressed massively in attack. We creating fewer chances and our finishing is even worse than before. We need acres of space to string together attacks. This we look bette Eva the big sides who try to play football. Small clubs like Arsenal who will just let the bus will always give us problems cos you can count on us to waste 3,4 easy chances per game and you are not gonna get a lot more vs 11 men camped in their own box. 

Regressed in attack? Wow. What....

Our attack has probably been progressively getting better the last month or so although still we have a huge number of 1 goal wins under Tuchel.

Honestly we weren’t hugely churning out a lot of chances in the beginning with Tuchel, understandably with the lack of time to train the team as often with games every 3 days more or less since he came in. Plus inconsistencies from players also dont help but the way your saying we have regressed as if we were Barcelona or someone back in the day who could easily score 4 or 5 goals every game...

The Real Madrid game was our best in attack in terms of big chances created with TT. It was 9 days ago. Where have you got this regressed idea from? One loss v Arsenal where we still had a few chances to win the game? There is a reason, unfortunately, that under Tuchel we have only scored 34 goals in 26 games. And it isnt due to us being ineffective or regressing in attack because realising this last month or so is when we have probably seen our best or most effective attacking play. 

Teams can have a bad game. I think everyone is still shitting the bed and overreacting overt the defeat on Wednesday. Things such as we aren’t getting top 4 to now our attack has regressed? Honestly...

Edited May 14, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

16 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Regressed in attack? Wow. What....

Our attack has probably been progressively getting better the last month or so although still we have a huge number of 1 goal wins under Tuchel.

Honestly we weren’t hugely churning out a lot of chances in the beginning with Tuchel, understandably with the lack of time to train the team as often with games every 3 days more or less since he came in. Plus inconsistencies from players also dont help but the way your saying we have regressed as if we were Barcelona or someone back in the day who could easily score 4 or 5 goals every game...

The Real Madrid game was our best in attack in terms of big chances created with TT. It was 9 days ago. Where have you got this regressed idea from? One loss v Arsenal where we still had a few chances to win the game? There is a reason, unfortunately, that under Tuchel we have only scored 34 goals in 26 games. And it isnt due to us being ineffective or regressing in attack because realising this last month or so is when we have probably seen our best or most effective attacking play. 

Teams can have a bad game. I think everyone is still shitting the bed and overreacting overt the defeat on Wednesday. Things such as we aren’t getting top 4 to now our attack has regressed? Honestly...

1.3 goals per game under Tuchel vs 2 goals per game before is a regress. 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

We actually have regressed massively in attack. We creating fewer chances and our finishing is even worse than before. We need acres of space to string together attacks. This we look bette Eva the big sides who try to play football. Small clubs like Arsenal who will just let the bus will always give us problems cos you can count on us to waste 3,4 easy chances per game and you are not gonna get a lot more vs 11 men camped in their own box. 

You made it sound as if we were playing exciting football under Lampard when it was all about just spamming crosses into the box. It benefitted only a few players in the team and it also helped that we played a lot more poor sides under Lampard than under Tuchel (Barnsley, Morecambe, Luton at SB to name a few). 

5 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

1.3 goals per game under Tuchel vs 2 goals per game before is a regress. 

Is it really Tuchel's fault that we don't score enough goals? The players have missed so many chances. Off the top of my head, we have Werner v Everton, West Ham, Real Madrid + Havertz v Arsenal, Real Madrid, Leeds, Brighton + Ziyech v Liverpool, Man United, Man City, Fulham + Pulisic v Porto, Sheffield Utd + Mount v Real Madrid.

The irony of complaining about not scoring enough goals is it was Lampard's focus on attack and his neglection of the defence that got us into trouble in the first place. That Lampard approach was working till we started playing the better sides in December and suddenly, it cannot be sustained because our attacking play was bad and our defence was even worse that it failed to give us a chance of winning games. 

Tuchel has at least turned that around. Does he want us to score more goals? Am sure he does but again, it's not his fault that the players somehow contrive to miss chances, like against Real Madrid last week. If you compare shots, big chances created etc under Lampard and Tuchel, they aren't actually that different at all. (N.B. This was taken from an article that was written about 2 weeks ago and it's the stats for this season's Premier League)

Aspects - Under Lampard v Under Tuchel

PL Games - 19 v 14

Total Shots - 263 v 213

Average Shots Per Game - 13.8 v 15.2

Big Chances Created - 43 v 33

Average Big Chances Per Game - 2.26 v 2.36

Goals Scored - 33 v 18

Goals Conceded - 23 v 8

Another irony about complaining about the lack of goals under Tuchel is that we have picked up more points under Tuchel in less games than under Lampard (35 in 17 compared to 29 in 19), which in other words suggests we have stat padded the goals along the way in some games under Lampard.

[Jase 43,479]

11 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Honestly I hope not.

But even then I think if we lose the cup final then it still means we make the CL realistically as it will be used as sufficient motivation on the following game and I would think it will be hammered home by Tuchel what is to be expected. Even then I still think we will win the FA cup. 

Leicester are a good team but they’ve shown they don’t have the bottle this season and last season in the run in dropping points, so don’t write that off yet either. In their last 11 league games theyve only won 5, drawing 2 and losing 4 v Arsenal, City, West Ham, Newcastle IIRC. With United being the only decent team they’ve beaten in that run also. 

I think people are easily throwing away what we have did from when TT came in/what we can still do based on 2 poor results. Some of the reactions yesterday were hysterically over the top. Like Arsenal TV style reactions.

The point was about the psychological impact if we lose Saturday's final because the league game against Leicester is just 3 days after that. If the worst happens, can the team pick itself back up in time? And not to mention, Leicester have actually done fairly well against the top sides this season - 6 wins in 10 league games. 

[chippy 342]

8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

This is unreal 🤣

Reading this you would think we are some mid table team which we were under Lampard...

Last week was maybe best week for our club in the last almost decade and I read this... We beat biggest club in the world in CL semi final and at the moment best team on planet away 3 days later...

Looks like you could not wait for us to lose some random game with a lot of rotation? Individual mistake in defense, Kai missing sitter, maybe pen not given to us, two times hit the post... How is this game against Arsenal different then many other games we won? Tuchel has nothing to do with our attackers missing sitters and some other individual mistakes which Jorginho did against Arse and WBA.

 

Lamps left us 9th or 10th at table. With Tuchel we are 2nd with only City being ahead but we beat them twice! With Frank those games were lost before they even begin.

We are worse now? 2 losses under Tuchel came because red card, Jorginho individual mistakes in front of our goal, from what we saw yesterday we should have won that game but also game in Leeds.

Go watch again losses with Frank. 5 in 8 rounds. We lost those games because opponents were much better, Arse, City and LC destroyed us! 

No slightest improvement in midfield? Go watch LC 2:0 loss again, we did not even had MF area... Now we control the games with a lot of possession and apart from Jorginho against WBA and Arse our MFs did not put foot wrong this season under Tuchel.

Attack is a problem yes because we have bad conversation rate. Havartz and Werner score just under 25% of big chances they have but when they improve and go at least 60% (and they will) they will be considered best players in the league. Also I think Kai, Puli, Hakim and Mount all improved their performances this season under Tuchel. They all scored more goals with him. Kai put 4 or 5 world class performances under Tuchel - zero under Lamps.

 

Of course we're thrilled about being in Cup Finals.

I'm.just saying that despite this a lot of our players have under performed. Sure, some good games as well, but we'll need to significant improvement next season to challenge for the title.

Liverpool should have their defenders back by then and be far better then this season.

City had a great streak of results but in between they've been average by their standards.

Going to be very difficult to challenge them if they get back to their best. I've said all along, I don't think a lot of this current squad are title winning level players.

TT might be able to get a couple to raise their level, as he's done with Rudi, but not as many as we'll need.

I see us fighting for 4th again.