The English Football Thread

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

They are all calling for Rooney's head and Pogba to be played further up the pitch or in a 4-3-3 with Herrera and another midfielder. But didn't they do this in Rotterdam? And they was still shite?

Rooney is past it and does not justify the enormous wages he is earning. But he is not United's main problem. Their problem is that one dimensional manager and his lack of imagination. I bet they would look as turgid as they've looked so far, even if Rooney is benched.

There is no dynamism and creativity in Mourinho's tactics. He is good at analyzing the opposition and recognising different patterns of play, but I think that's about it. But what about attacking play? Does he even train this? His teams look like they would go forever without scoring if there is no individual brilliance to save the day. You see no specific movements to at least say "This is a Mourinho team". I think it's a nightmare for other managers to analyze Mourinho's patterns of play before a direct match because frankly they are kind of non existent and shit. I think they rather prefer to try and exploit Mourinho's players weaknesses than try to block his team's movement as a whole.

I remember that loss at Leicester (and his final game here) - He kept talking of how he's prepared that match for four days in which he specifically showed his players how Leicester like to attack and worked on that. Well, to be fair, I truly believe this is the only thing they have worked on - on blocking the opposition only. I have never seen Mourinho saying: "I'm mad on my players because we knew Huth and Morgan are slow and we should have taken advantage of that", "I am mad on my players because we knew they can't defend well", "I am mad on my players because we knew their GK is shite and despite that we've only shot on time on target." etc. 

It's never about attacking play with him. Always about how they should stop others from playing football. I would understand this if once they get the ball, they are great with it. But Mourinho's teams post Real Madrid are awful. With, or without the ball. Can't forget that match at the Bridge against Atletico in which he played Cole, Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, David Luiz, Azpilicueta and Ramires at the same time. And Willian who was contributing jack shit to the attacking play. All this against Diego Simeone.

He is simply past it.

 

 

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

On September 18, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Tomo said:

Imagine if we signed Rooney in 2013, he'd be our problem now.

Wow... I had forgot JM wanted him. What a nightmare. 

Also, here's a great anecdote on the Rooney and United relationship. 

 

[DYC. 7,542]

1 hour ago, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

Wow... I had forgot JM wanted him. What a nightmare. 

Also, here's a great anecdote on the Rooney and United relationship. 

 

Despite all the records Rooney is never a great. Because you can argue Rooney has never led his team to (major) silverware. In his best ever individual season 09/10 he failed to win the title or CL (Drogba outperformed him but didn't win POTY, still one of the greatest robberies I've seen and I still get angry when I think about it).

There was the title in 10/11 but I think Nani outperformed him that season. But maybe I'm being harsh because you could give him that.

But he is without a doubt one of the best ever supporting cast players. Similar to Willian but then five times better. He was amazing as the so-called unsung hero in 05-09.(so unsung everyone kept praising him.

Funny thing is, in 30 years from now, Rooney will probably be praised as England's best ever player. Because of the trophies he won and the records on his name.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Mourinho fucked up when he didnt sign Alex Hunter.

[Jase 43,479]

On 9/18/2016 at 9:46 PM, Tomo said:

Imagine if we signed Rooney in 2013, he'd be our problem now.

If we had signed Rooney back then, it would have been another major transfer fuck-up by Mourinho. Right up there with De Bruyne!

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

Wow... I had forgot JM wanted him. What a nightmare. 

Also, here's a great anecdote on the Rooney and United relationship. 

 

Funny thing is Fergie barely got any criticism - which he should have - for leaving United with so little quality. I know his family circumstances dictated it but he 'conveniently' retired at the right time after winning the league.

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Funny thing is Fergie barely got any criticism - which he should have - for leaving United with so little quality. I know his family circumstances dictated it but he 'conveniently' retired at the right time after winning the league.

 

 

Yeah, he pretty much pulled a Mourinho 2010 with Inter.  

But you know what, I don't really "blame" Fergie for leaving Man United in the state that he did. He had won all there was to win, and had been a legendary servant to the club. He even kept Man United competitive with the likes of City who were shelling hundreds of millions to win the PL Title, all while allowing the Glazers to drain the club of valuable funds so they could pay back the debt they saddled onto Man. United so they could buy the club in the first place. 

I think Fergie quickly realized he didn't have the energy or generally couldn't be arsed with, creating another new spine for the club. The window on that aging squad with the likes of Vidic/Berbatov/Giggs/Scholes/Ferdinand was closed by the end of that title-winning season. 

[Essien19 1,415]

Funny thing is Fergie barely got any criticism - which he should have - for leaving United with so little quality. I know his family circumstances dictated it but he 'conveniently' retired at the right time after winning the league.

He left his successor with the league winning squad. It's not his fault that Moyes came up with the brilliant idea to kick out a lot of the staff members and going crosses all the way... i remember him taking a long holdiday before he even cared to show up. Giving Rooney the big contract was his decision, as well as buying Fellaini.

Moyes still likes to talk about United and how bad they treated him. He seems not to take much blame. I wouldn't want to work for/with such a person.

I think Ferguson would have continued to be right up there and getting the best out of players such as Van Persie or Evans. Zaha would have been an interesting one, imo.

Sure Ferguson could have had more young guns, but they were top of the league, Moyes fucked up.

[Jase 43,479]

8 hours ago, Essien19 said:

He left his successor with the league winning squad. It's not his fault that Moyes came up with the brilliant idea to kick out a lot of the staff members and going crosses all the way... i remember him taking a long holdiday before he even cared to show up. Giving Rooney the big contract was his decision, as well as buying Fellaini.

Moyes still likes to talk about United and how bad they treated him. He seems not to take much blame. I wouldn't want to work for/with such a person.

I think Ferguson would have continued to be right up there and getting the best out of players such as Van Persie or Evans. Zaha would have been an interesting one, imo.

Sure Ferguson could have had more young guns, but they were top of the league, Moyes fucked up.

Fergie left Moyes with a league winning squad...but not a quality squad. There's a difference. They won the league that season only because of Van Persie. Fergie bought him with the main purpose of getting the league back after watching Man City won it. If you go look back at the squad then, how many players would you even consider to be top quality?

[Essien19 1,415]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Fergie left Moyes with a league winning squad...but not a quality squad. There's a difference. They won the league that season only because of Van Persie. Fergie bought him with the main purpose of getting the league back after watching Man City won it. If you go look back at the squad then, how many players would you even consider to be top quality?

Individually speaking you do have a point there, but isn't it now the time where a (hopefully good) manager comes into play who can make up for a lot of things? If the system doesn't suit them it's all for nothing.

You mentioned the Dutchman...after Ferguson had called it a day, there were rumours flying around about an unhappy and full of regrets for joining them in the first place Van Persie. It didn't come by surprise that in their following season it all went tits up. Don't you think that a class manager wouldn't have been able to squeeze at least one more (unbelievable) season out of him? Van Persie scored the goals, but Ferguson kept him in line and without a class manager, his downfall is there for everyone to see. Personally, i'd argue that United won the league because of Ferguson, he made every player better. Moyes couldn't. City last -and this year, it's a completely different ball game. Over the last decade could it be the case that there were spells where Chelsea sold themselves at less than their true value? I do think so! City has the foundation to build a similar case for quite some years.

Spotting. With the emergence of Moyes a lot of expensive names were making the rounds and some guys were brushed aside. Van Gaal followed the tradition of the done and dusted ones. They learned the hard way that they'd better kept the likes of Evans, Nani, Chicharito and others instead of emptying their pockets for the Rojo's of this world. Point is, they weren't all bad.

Back in 2013, three standout performers:
Van Persie
Carrick (massively underrated)
De Gea ( performance curve only going upwards)

Under the right management Evans, Jones, Smalling, Rafael, Evra, Young, Valencia, Young, Zaha, Nani, Chicharito could have played their part. Of course there was need to buy/sell, but not to reinvent the wheel, Moyes and later Van Gaal got it all wrong. Mourinho's pairing of Pogba & Schneiderlin isn't even a poor version of Carrick, tbf, Ferguson is gone for a while.

Point is, City's had a better one, perhaps even Chelsea. But i wouldn't remove the tag quality when speaking about United's. That was right up with the best, the players had instilled the winning mentality and Rooney was on his way out, that has to count for something.
I stand by my belief: the coaches have to shoulder most of the blame.

Agree to disagree!

[Essien19 1,415]

Can't remove Rooney from the lineup, can he? The love for Rojo is cringe.

Things are looking quite underwhelming, just the way the rest of the league likes it. Lol

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[KevinAshburner 1,270]

Latest Premier League Rumours.

Ryan Giggs to become New Swansea City Manager and to replace Francesco Guidolin

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Mata is playing as no 10 for Manu. Interesting choice from Mou 

[communicate 2,703]

On 9/21/2016 at 1:23 AM, Jason said:

Fergie left Moyes with a league winning squad...but not a quality squad. There's a difference. They won the league that season only because of Van Persie. Fergie bought him with the main purpose of getting the league back after watching Man City won it. If you go look back at the squad then, how many players would you even consider to be top quality?

Player like Wes brown, oshea, park, welbeck have always been the strength of united team under Fergie. His team always has good balance between hardworking players and star player like Ronaldo, rooney (young), rvp

[blu35_army 551]

wow,,united seems different with mata and hererra....

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[Laylabelle 9,534]

2-0..was fun while it lasted..

[MefiX19 1,092]

Just now, Laylabelle said:

2-0..was fun while it lasted..

4 now

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

Leicester look terrible.

[Miki-Liki 405]

These guys are supposed to be the champions of England. To say it's embarrassing is an understatement, especially for the league.

[Milan 17,956]

Dropping Rooney the wisest decision. Because dropping Ivanovic wasn't back then...