Welcome Mauricio Pochettino

[Vegetable 830]

46 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Will the board feel that way?

I can see him sacked in January, interim in the meantime, finish 15th, Flick comes in, does the same stupid shit of conservative football/playing players out of position and he too gets sacked. 

Never ending cycle. 

If it wasn’t for absolute outrage of fans, I wouldn’t be surprised if Potter was still here. Why You guys think Poch is going anywhere, especially he was chosen after ”long and thoughtful process”, so he is even more marquee Clearlake signing, than Potter was and it’s not like those guys tend to admit their mistakes. They specifically said they will take time to nail the manager choice, so they’d come out as total dummies if he was sacked after 6 months.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by Vegetable

[Vytis33 1,144]

 

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

Lets be honest, if we don’t get results and pressure mounts on the correct people - the owners & footballing directors - they will pull the plug on Poch to save their own skin. 

They did the same with Potter, sacking him months and months too late after initially making the mistake of hiring him. Then hired Lampard as a PR stunt to try and save face because the fanbase was very restless.

Irrespectively of if Poch sees the season out or the long run, these owners and footballing people need to be held accountable for their poor poor judgement which could set this club back years.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[Fulham Broadway 16,845]

12 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Lets be honest, if we don’t get results and pressure mounts on the correct people - the owners & footballing directors - they will pull the plug on Poch to save their own skin. 

They did the same with Potter, sacking him months and months too late after initially making the mistake of hiring him. Then hired Lampard as a PR stunt to try and save face because the fanbase was very restless.

Irrespectively of if Poch sees the season out or the long run, these owners and footballing people need to be held accountable for their poor poor judgement which could set this club back years.

 

To many its a slow boiling of the frog, one win every five or six games keeps the hope alive. meanwhile the acceptance of mediocrity becomes the normal. They can Fuck that I hope protests start soon. cant do any harm, and never know might be the kick up the arse the custodians need.

[Thor 2,392]

10 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

We all agree Poch is way better coach than Lampard.

Lamps got top4 in 19/20 season with based on minutes they played this lineup:

Kepa 24

Azpi 29

Chris 23

Zouma 24

Alonso 28

Jorginho 27

Kovacic 25

Mount 20

Pulisic 20

Willian 30

Abraham 21

A lot of minutes also for very young players like James 19, Tomori 21, CHO 18. But he also used some experienced players like Kante, Rudiger, Giroud.

We still have now Silva, Chilwell, Sterling for experienced players so not sure that can be used as main reason why we are so bad now.

There are probably couple of reasons. I do not buy that team was better. People never thought Tammy was good enough to lead the line, majority never liked Willian, Jorginho, Alonso, Zouma, Kepa...

We are very solid defensively now, Lamps team was conceding a lot of goals. The main difference is scoring goals. That team scored 69 league goals, this one if continue like this will be around 35 goals.

Abraham scored 15 league goals, Willian and Pulisic 9, Giroud 8 and Mount 7. This is top5 goalscorers that season with 48 goals. Our whole squad cannot score that per season now.

Question is why Jackson, Sterling, Mudryk... cannot do that? If Nkunku is fit and Jackson is not horrible in front of the goal we would have different conversation now.

Really a couple of small details... Enzo scores penalty and WH loss is a win... Yesterday on 0:0 Jackson and Sterling missed one on one. Against Bournemouth we hit the post twice. Again Sterling and Jackson.

Nottingham again unreal miss from Jackson. We beat Luton, Liverpool is fair result. But from WH, AV, NF and Bournemouth instead of 12 points we got 1. I just said why, couple of small details. 

We have same expected goals as Spurs. But difference is they score we do not. 

Like I said Nkunku injury was big blow, Jackson conversation rate is horrible and not having another experienced striker was mistake. Sterling also should have scored more. Even Chilwell had 2 golden chances.

Fans always put too much onto results but bigger picture is much more positive.

Luton game aside we scored 2 goals in 5 games and have around 15 big chances missed. When analyzing our results we really should not look further than that.

 

 

Great take. I completely agree. We have the quality on the field, it is just at that tipping point. Fans are fickle, as most will be in here. I let my emotions get the best of me during games, but I can go back and see what I watched and realised it isn't doom and gloom, but rather close. 

I don't want to see Poch sacked. I think our play has gotten better over the games. 

Great teams find a way to win when they don't play well. We don't have that just yet. 

 

My only issue with this current slump is player harmony and confidence. That'll be even worse if they get rid of Poch, because the players will think its a pisstake, and they can just lull their way through a season and have the manager blamed every time. 

 

It isn't an experience thing. It isn't a player quality thing. Fans on here are kidding themselves with cope. 

We have a world cup winner in Enzo. Thiago Silva. Chilly who has won a CL. Caicedo has PL experience and is one of the best midfielders in the game statistically. Sterling is a multiple time PL winner. This team is top 4 quality - just not getting the results right now. 

Players people are complaining we didn't get now were meh last season, or were meh when they were here - Felix and Dusan. They're just on teams where things are actually clicking. Only difference. 

[Strike 7,217]

10 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Will the board feel that way?

I can see him sacked in January, interim in the meantime, finish 15th, Flick comes in, does the same stupid shit of conservative football/playing players out of position and he too gets sacked. 

Never ending cycle. 

At some point even our hubris board should realise its not the manager. I think we are already getting signs of that- the board backing Poch this week and talking about how they're studying the data which actually shows we're not as bad as people are making it out to be. The ideas from the tactics room have been okay - some strange choices that everyone's pointed out but it is the execution which has been shocking. West Ham, NFO, Villa followed the same pattern- chances not taken and a counter-attack goal out of nowhere reversing the momentum completely.

I don't see how a manager change will fix it. It doesn't seem like the squad is against Poch and are clamoring for a change. Hope we stick this out with Poch and see where it goes because like you said, restarting the process will simply set us back further and dissuade any decent footballer from thinking about a Chelsea move.

[Vegetable 830]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

It isn't an experience thing. It isn't a player quality thing. Fans on here are kidding themselves with cope. 

We have a world cup winner in Enzo. Thiago Silva. Chilly who has won a CL. Caicedo has PL experience and is one of the best midfielders in the game statistically. Sterling is a multiple time PL winner. This team is top 4 quality - just not getting the results right now. 

This is the level of optimism I admire but can't really agree on. I would, if we were actually a mid-table team.

World cup or Euro is hardly measure of anything. Thiago is on the late Cahill level of decline and we have finally face it. Our entire previous roster won CL, yet people claimed they are useless. "PL experience" is joke of advatage on this level. Sterling is past it, just like was Auba, Higuain etc. 

I could probably pick similar cherries even from West Ham or Villa squad, yet they are hardly title contenders.

We could point some positives in every roster there was in last 15 years. The thing is, we had good players and ok players usually, now we have some potentially good players and straight up liabilities. We have strikers, who can't fire for their lives. We have wingers, who shouldn't be anywhere near Chelsea ever, hence Chillwell is a winger now. We have shaky backline and no clear starting set up, which is very important for defenders to play together a lot. We have a goalie that seems like a duct tape solution to a problem.

Things like cohesion and chemistry are one thing to develop, but truth is that like 23 of those 25 players need to make MASSIVE leap in their footballing skill and experience to even remotely think about top 4 with very little room for error and so far we look like a lot of error tbh. Is it on Pochettino? Nah, I don't think so (yet).

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

18 hours ago, DH1988 said:

The run of games coming up are an absolute gauntlet which will only compound the issue(s) further, we really needed to do a United here and squeeze the points out somehow like they are, albeit from dodgy referee calls mainly, irrespective it's a daunting time for Poch and I can't help but look at how 180 degrees we looked in preseason.. Mentality was there and pressing every single ball.

Because it was full of the young players looking to impress and take the chance offered to them.   Casadei, Santos, Angelo, Carney, Bashir among others. 

Funny how most were not kept around (other than Carney and that nasty injury) and as soon as we got these high priced signings very late in the window things started going from bad to worse. 

I mentioned this before but getting Caicedo & Lavia was overkill and I feel it sends a bad message to the rest of the talented young midfielders as their pathway to first team football at Chelsea is effectively blocked for the near future. 

[Thor 2,392]

2 hours ago, Vegetable said:

This is the level of optimism I admire but can't really agree on. I would, if we were actually a mid-table team.

World cup or Euro is hardly measure of anything. Thiago is on the late Cahill level of decline and we have finally face it. Our entire previous roster won CL, yet people claimed they are useless. "PL experience" is joke of advatage on this level. Sterling is past it, just like was Auba, Higuain etc. 

I could probably pick similar cherries even from West Ham or Villa squad, yet they are hardly title contenders.

We could point some positives in every roster there was in last 15 years. The thing is, we had good players and ok players usually, now we have some potentially good players and straight up liabilities. We have strikers, who can't fire for their lives. We have wingers, who shouldn't be anywhere near Chelsea ever, hence Chillwell is a winger now. We have shaky backline and no clear starting set up, which is very important for defenders to play together a lot. We have a goalie that seems like a duct tape solution to a problem.

Things like cohesion and chemistry are one thing to develop, but truth is that like 23 of those 25 players need to make MASSIVE leap in their footballing skill and experience to even remotely think about top 4 with very little room for error and so far we look like a lot of error tbh. Is it on Pochettino? Nah, I don't think so (yet).

Just isn't true. 

Lets stop pretending there are 19 teams better than us in terms of talent. There isn't even 8. 

RJ and Gusto are top class. Our CB options are fine and better than 90% of the league. We don't concede goals, so this isn't up for debate. LB - we have plenty of options, and aren't in need of an upgrade. 

Enzo is a WC winner and is clearly class. The eye test is enough. Caceido is class. Gallagher has done it at other clubs, was wanted by WHU and Spurs - he is good enough to be on the team. 

Sterling can bang in goals - and he isn't past it. Say what you want about Mudryk and Jackson - fine, they might be average or below average - the rest of the team on paper, and based on their achievements are clearly very good. 

Our keeper isn't making or breaking the team. He is stopping shots and we have a good defence statistically.

 

It is a confidence and cohesion (and a whole lot more) issue, and not a personnel one. Why? Because no matter which way you slice it - this team isn't worse than Villas. We aren't worse than Nottingham Forest. We aren't worse than WHU. This team is plenty fine enough to win games based on talent and who is there on paper.

 

I dare anyone with a straight face to say they would swap our entire starting 11 for Tottenham's against Arsenal this weekend. No one wanted Brennan Johnson when he was being talked about as an option. Am I going to sit here and pretend we should have got him now that he is on a winning team? 

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

Agreed. What I have been saying yesterday. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by NikkiCFC

[Mhsc 876]

[DDA 9,690]

It's a fact... if we take our chances, we are in the top 5 of the table and everything is being looked and talked about in a completely different way.

Start scoring and all of a sudden, the momentum grows and so does the teams fear factor just like Arsenal did under Arteta.

[Thor 2,392]

6 minutes ago, Mhsc said:

I don't care too much about this. We look better than when Potter was here.

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

34 minutes ago, DDA said:

It's a fact... if we take our chances, we are in the top 5 of the table and everything is being looked and talked about in a completely different way.

Start scoring and all of a sudden, the momentum grows and so does the teams fear factor just like Arsenal did under Arteta.

Then why is Ivan Toney seen as this answer? Toney’s conversion rate (excluding penalties) since coming into the league is 13.2%.

[Superblue 6,370]

16 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Then why is Ivan Toney seen as this answer? Toney’s conversion rate (excluding penalties) since coming into the league is 13.2%.

I think this is where I do have a small amount of sympathy with the scouting and recruitment part of the club.

I think there's a dearth of real top strikers at their peak currently and even someone like Osimhen is really gaining traction off the back of just one incredible season.

With Jackson, a lot of his game is very good for his age. Pace is electric, has a good size and frame he'll fill into, good attitude to press, willing and intelligent runner behind the defence (just needs to refine that a little so he's not offside as often) which provides a completely different dynamic we haven't had. Some of his points are raw and he needs to mature as a player and a person but he does have the makings of becoming a very good player.

Ultimately it comes down to trusting in that talent that it can flourish. In an ideal world, we'd have a Giroud type that can be leant on in times of struggle because we have to accept the inconsistent nature of younger players. That's where Lampard in his first stint benefited enormously half way through the season as the results tailed off, he was able to lean more heavily on players like Giroud, Alonso, Jorginho, Pedro, etc who hadn't featured as prominently before.

The lack of foresight at the club, in not ensuring there is some more experience in this group of players is astounding. Poch knows it, he's not an idiot.

 

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

4 minutes ago, Superblue said:

I think this is where I do have a small amount of sympathy with the scouting and recruitment part of the club.

I think there's a dearth of real top strikers at their peak currently and even someone like Osimhen is really gaining traction off the back of just one incredible season.

With Jackson, a lot of his game is very good for his age. Pace is electric, has a good size and frame he'll fill into, good attitude to press, willing and intelligent runner behind the defence (just needs to refine that a little so he's not offside as often) which provides a completely different dynamic we haven't had. Some of his points are raw and he needs to mature as a player and a person but he does have the makings of becoming a very good player.

Ultimately it comes down to trusting in that talent that it can flourish. In an ideal world, we'd have a Giroud type that can be leant on in times of struggle because we have to accept the inconsistent nature of younger players. That's where Lampard in his first stint benefited enormously half way through the season as the results tailed off, he was able to lean more heavily on players like Giroud, Alonso, Jorginho, Pedro, etc who hadn't featured as prominently before.

The lack of foresight at the club, in not ensuring there is some more experience in this group of players is astounding. Poch knows it, he's not an idiot.

 

Yes there are a shortage of too CFs but the scouts and recruitment people have been given a profile and the club have spunked £1bn in 3 windows and we look so much worse. As well as these co director fuckwits having a huge input into not keeping the likes of Kova, Jorginho, Kante etc.

Anywhere else and these footballing director guys wouldn’t be in a job next season, wait and see though we will let them continue to ruin our squads development and the club’s overall trajectory again. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by OneMoSalah

[Superblue 6,370]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Yes there are a shortage of too CFs but the scouts and recruitment people have spunked £1bn in 3 windows and we look no better. As well as obviously having an input into not keeping the likes of Kova, Jorginho, Kante etc.

Abywhere else and these footballing director guys wouldn’t be in a job next season, wait and see though we will let them continue to ruin our squads development and the club’s overall trajectory again. 

The new directors can't be blamed for the entirety of this as they weren't here last summer when we effectively wasted about £300m of that mark, and the outgoings and fees received this summer go a reasonable way towards bringing the net spend down on this figure, but it is still a huge chunk of cash they've been armed with.

The problem is it's pretty clear that the directive given to them was to buy for the future. I think last summers window was an eye opener to the owners at buying older, established players on big wages who go on to not perform. In my opinion this was a wrong move in itself, and a couple more players in their mid-20's should have been added to the group, or more done to keep a couple of the players moved on. 

Ultimately, it's not fair to pass judgement on the recruitment over the last 2 windows already, despite the lavish outlay, when bar Disasi and Sanchez, the oldest player I think we've bought is 21/22 years old. What I would say is in isolation, a number of the players we've bought do look promising and that they could have big futures here at the club, but collectively as a squad it isn't working yet and I'm not surprised. We've turned over a whole new squad in 18 months bar about 5 players and have very little experience running through the group.

We could be looking back in 2 or 3 years time, having high regards for these last couple of transfer windows. I understand the patience within the fans and media will be non-existent when we've spent so much money, but rightly or wrongly the club has bought potential and that isn't going to be realised in a handful of games.

[Blue Armour 4,278]

48 minutes ago, Superblue said:

 I think last summers window was an eye opener to the owners at buying older, established players on big wages who go on to not perform. In my opinion this was a wrong move in itself, and a couple more players in their mid-20's should have been added to the group, or more done to keep a couple of the players moved on. 

 

Exactly this. This management always seems to follow a brute force approach.

Right intentions, but they go about it an extreme manner.

The players that had to go, should have been phased out over a couple of seasons., rather than doing all in one go.

Anyway it's done. I just hope the short term impact, namely another poor finish in the league, doesn't have any lasting damage.