The Next Manager?

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

 

I also believe that with regards to a rebuild, either a manager knows they'll be given sufficient time and resources by the board (like Klopp or Guardiola) - Our board have yet to prove they're willing to give time. Or you have a manager that is willing to come in and do it no matter the potential consequences or if they're still at the club to see it through. I do believe Lampard would fall into that category (in the same way that i feel Solskjaer would at United). He will want to see Chelsea successful whether he's the manager or not and I think would be more prepared to make the hard decisions for the greater good of the long term (for example more trust in a Reece James or CHO as opposed to feeling the pressure to play the experience in an Azpilicueta or Willian/Pedro over them regularly).

.

Using solkjaer as example is very bad way to support lamp. I want lamp to go and prove himself outside Chelsea be successful first and learn as much as possible and then go back here. 

We are not in the situation where we have tons of wc player that just need a little love and guidance. We are building a foundation for our future. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

11 hours ago, Tomo said:

Ten Hag like Henrique said would be ideal, but I can see him having most of Europe after him especially if he wins the CL.

Erik Ten Hag would be an absolutely massive risk. Riskier than Sarri, AVB and Di Matteo appointments. Cant believe people think he would actually get time. Hes done extraordinary well with Ajax but lets see how he does next year with no de Ligt, De Jong, Tagliafico, as well as potentially Neres and Ziyech who have had good seasons.

Even then Frank de Bor and Petr Bosz are prime examples that winning at Ajax, where each coach adapts to the clubs philosophy which is ingrained doesnt mean that it can be easily done elsewhere. In hindsight, Sarri is a very similar example without trophies, his style was clear at Napoli for 3 years but hes struggled to implement it here to its fullest yet people want his head and want to go for someone of the same ilk arguably which could have the exact same problems. 

I would get it if people wanted a Diego Simeone or Max Allegri because they are different in styles and adaptable but the coach of Ajax, who was the ex coach of Utretch and Go Ahead Eagles is undoubtedly gonna try and implement a very similar possession based style because thats how most teams try to play in Holland.

If the club were to appoint him he would probably need even more time than what Sarri needs. Which say a year in people will be fed up of him and want another manager to come in. Basically rinse and repeat. Whoever is in charge next season, if they are sticking with this possession orientated style, needs time because theres a lot of work to do.

[communicate 2,703]

8 hours ago, Tomo said:

Would we? I think part of the reason we have tried to move to this style of football is because how badly we did the previous season and two years before that playing to our supposed strengths.

The problem with pragmatic machine like football it's is very much fine while competing for the major trophies and getting the results but when we're not it's absolutely soul destroying to watch (last season, 15/16 and 10/11 prime examples). 

If we can successfully build this style of football then we can always have enjoyable games to fall back on even when we aren't challenging for the big one's. Even this season with the project probably not even 20% implemented i prefer these games (bar about a month in the winter) to 95% of what was served up in those season's mentioned above.

Ill be surprised if we didn't. Just look at everywhere in Europe. Ter Stegen, Allison, Leno , ederson. Almost all of them have gk that is good on the ball. It is pretty much a requirement this days. 

In term of our games being enjoyable, I am pretty sure you are in the minority here. 

[Laylabelle 9,534]

5 hours ago, communicate said:

Ill be surprised if we didn't. Just look at everywhere in Europe. Ter Stegen, Allison, Leno , ederson. Almost all of them have gk that is good on the ball. It is pretty much a requirement this days. 

In term of our games being enjoyable, I am pretty sure you are in the minority here. 

Yeah not sure enjoyable and the way we play go together. At the start a bit. Now. It's hard work watching 

[Tomo 21,751]

5 hours ago, communicate said:

Ill be surprised if we didn't. Just look at everywhere in Europe. Ter Stegen, Allison, Leno , ederson. Almost all of them have gk that is good on the ball. It is pretty much a requirement this days. 

In term of our games being enjoyable, I am pretty sure you are in the minority here. 

When did I say enjoyable per se? I said compared to last season and 15/16, which I should be in the majority with.

[Superblue 6,372]

22 hours ago, communicate said:

Using solkjaer as example is very bad way to support lamp. I want lamp to go and prove himself outside Chelsea be successful first and learn as much as possible and then go back here. 

We are not in the situation where we have tons of wc player that just need a little love and guidance. We are building a foundation for our future. 

I'm not using Solskjaer as an example, I'm simply giving an opinion that I believe he will make big decisions on rebuilding United and not be afraid to make those decisions because his affinity with the club, he'll want the right foundations at the club not just a quick fix and I also believe Lampard would be the same. Exactly what you said, we need to build a foundation at the club and for us to do this and try and grow and develop a nucleus of young players, I feel there would be more chance with somebody who knows the club and is prepared to show belief in the young players.

It would be a risk, there's no doubt about that. However, the manager pool of proven, top class managers seems to diminish every time we need a new one and if Lampard was given the opportunity at a different rival club and did well then will we have missed the boat?

[Vesper 30,091]

Lampard isn't ready to take over.

[communicate 2,703]

36 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'm not using Solskjaer as an example, I'm simply giving an opinion that I believe he will make big decisions on rebuilding United and not be afraid to make those decisions because his affinity with the club, he'll want the right foundations at the club not just a quick fix and I also believe Lampard would be the same. Exactly what you said, we need to build a foundation at the club and for us to do this and try and grow and develop a nucleus of young players, I feel there would be more chance with somebody who knows the club and is prepared to show belief in the young players.

It would be a risk, there's no doubt about that. However, the manager pool of proven, top class managers seems to diminish every time we need a new one and if Lampard was given the opportunity at a different rival club and did well then will we have missed the boat?

I don't understand about fixing foundation of the club.  That really sound way too vague for me. 

I won't use our club as example because the foundation of our successful era was Abramovich cash. 

I'll use United. United had an amazing class. Class of 92 that created fantastic spine for that club. But it is very2 difficult to replicate that even for United. To have 5 first team player from your academy while competing for epl is extremely difficult. 

For me what I wantil is very simple. Have a clear understanding of how we want to play. Sign the correct player. I don't give a damn who the manager is as long as he fit the mold of how we want to play. That way we can have a continue success. 

 

 

[Superblue 6,372]

14 minutes ago, communicate said:

I don't understand about fixing foundation of the club.  That really sound way too vague for me. 

I won't use our club as example because the foundation of our successful era was Abramovich cash. 

I'll use United. United had an amazing class. Class of 92 that created fantastic spine for that club. But it is very2 difficult to replicate that even for United. To have 5 first team player from your academy while competing for epl is extremely difficult. 

For me what I wantil is very simple. Have a clear understanding of how we want to play. Sign the correct player. I don't give a damn who the manager is as long as he fit the mold of how we want to play. That way we can have a continue success. 

You're right to say that the last 10-15 years this club has been built up by Roman and his money. Now the position we are in is we have failed to replace the world class players and leaders we once had in our dressing room and we have failed to successfully integrate academy players into the side. To top it off, there are now question marks over Roman's long term future, the market has gone hectic and FFP to consider and numerous other clubs are now matching our spending power, our 'foundations' which were once built are no longer sustainable.

My point is it is difficult to argue given the success we've had even over the last couple of years, but the constant changing of managers/styles/player turnover is what has left us in the position we're in now where we have a group of players where some excel in certain styles and formations and some in others, and some just simply aren't good enough. The short term papering over the cracks is starting to catch up with us and what we need is someone that is prepared to rebuild this club properly not just trying to patch up problems.

Lampard is significantly inexperienced, but look at how much Sarri has struggled with adapting to the Premier League, and countless other managers before him. Lampard's experience of English football and the Premier League in particular already gives him a step up in that regard.

I am not expecting us to get a United 'Class of 92', that will probably never happen again. However, what the club need is a steady stream of academy players integrated into the squad. Right now currently, I would say that a case could be made for at least 5 or 6 to be within the squad at present in varying capacities of importance. If some like CHO and RLC develop to become first choice then great, but ultimately it is just as important to have a solid foundation of them amongst the squad even as squad players. Not only will it serve to improve the squad depth internally so less money is being wasted on crap players like Zappacosta, and fills out homegrown criteria so no more Drinkwater buys, but it also ensures there is a group of players within the club to ensure new players coming in understand the difficulties of the Premier League and the passion and responsibility that we as fans want to see them hold playing for Chelsea. If you want to use United still as an example, they relied on players like Wes Brown, Fletcher, Evans, O'Shea not as first choice world class players but as reliable squad players who could be trusted and understood the responsibilities of playing for the club. 

When we have managers lasting a season or two, they are not going to be interested in how the academy is doing. There's not enough time and too much pressure on them to deliver now, hence why the same 'experienced' players continue to stay and play under numerous managers.

For me, Lampard would be someone I believe who would be prepared to invest time and take responsibility for playing younger players. Especially if he came back with Jody Morris who not only is the most experienced man dealing and managing with a number of these players over the last few years but would also potentially be the key middle man to bridge the gap between the first team and the academy. 

It also has to be considered that if we fail to make Champions League, I would assume Sarri will be sacked (based on reports in Italy he may even be wanting to return to manage there anyway) and we could still have the ban in place. How many managers would look at that position and view it as attractive? We would have a year right there of either the same squad this year minus Hazard (more than likely) or start integrating and trusting young players and for me that would be a suitable scenario for Lampard and possibly give him a year almost as a 'free hit' to see which of these players are capable of swimming or sinking.

There's no magic wand or guarantees with anyone. I'm just not excited about the possibility of another manager coming in for a season or two stint prepared to hang his hat on the same group of experienced players who get another opportunity at the club.

[communicate 2,703]

30 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

You're right to say that the last 10-15 years this club has been built up by Roman and his money. Now the position we are in is we have failed to replace the world class players and leaders we once had in our dressing room and we have failed to successfully integrate academy players into the side. To top it off, there are now question marks over Roman's long term future, the market has gone hectic and FFP to consider and numerous other clubs are now matching our spending power, our 'foundations' which were once built are no longer sustainable.

My point is it is difficult to argue given the success we've had even over the last couple of years, but the constant changing of managers/styles/player turnover is what has left us in the position we're in now where we have a group of players where some excel in certain styles and formations and some in others, and some just simply aren't good enough. The short term papering over the cracks is starting to catch up with us and what we need is someone that is prepared to rebuild this club properly not just trying to patch up problems.

Lampard is significantly inexperienced, but look at how much Sarri has struggled with adapting to the Premier League, and countless other managers before him. Lampard's experience of English football and the Premier League in particular already gives him a step up in that regard.

I am not expecting us to get a United 'Class of 92', that will probably never happen again. However, what the club need is a steady stream of academy players integrated into the squad. Right now currently, I would say that a case could be made for at least 5 or 6 to be within the squad at present in varying capacities of importance. If some like CHO and RLC develop to become first choice then great, but ultimately it is just as important to have a solid foundation of them amongst the squad even as squad players. Not only will it serve to improve the squad depth internally so less money is being wasted on crap players like Zappacosta, and fills out homegrown criteria so no more Drinkwater buys, but it also ensures there is a group of players within the club to ensure new players coming in understand the difficulties of the Premier League and the passion and responsibility that we as fans want to see them hold playing for Chelsea. If you want to use United still as an example, they relied on players like Wes Brown, Fletcher, Evans, O'Shea not as first choice world class players but as reliable squad players who could be trusted and understood the responsibilities of playing for the club. 

When we have managers lasting a season or two, they are not going to be interested in how the academy is doing. There's not enough time and too much pressure on them to deliver now, hence why the same 'experienced' players continue to stay and play under numerous managers.

For me, Lampard would be someone I believe who would be prepared to invest time and take responsibility for playing younger players. Especially if he came back with Jody Morris who not only is the most experienced man dealing and managing with a number of these players over the last few years but would also potentially be the key middle man to bridge the gap between the first team and the academy. 

It also has to be considered that if we fail to make Champions League, I would assume Sarri will be sacked (based on reports in Italy he may even be wanting to return to manage there anyway) and we could still have the ban in place. How many managers would look at that position and view it as attractive? We would have a year right there of either the same squad this year minus Hazard (more than likely) or start integrating and trusting young players and for me that would be a suitable scenario for Lampard and possibly give him a year almost as a 'free hit' to see which of these players are capable of swimming or sinking.

There's no magic wand or guarantees with anyone. I'm just not excited about the possibility of another manager coming in for a season or two stint prepared to hang his hat on the same group of experienced players who get another opportunity at the club.

I said it before we are in transition period moving from Conte/Mou style football to more attacking front footed. That is why we look so dire. Many people said that Sarri turned us into a soft team which I agree with but Conte played with back 5 in low block to create good stability in defense with this team. Imagine doing it with just 4. But if we want to play front footed football, we can't do it with 5 player at the back. 

People want fantastic offense but we don't have any creator. The last time our offense look good we have magician called Fabregas in our team. 

I absolutely agree on you using our academy player as filler which Chelsea has done this season. We have ampadu, CHO and Ruben in our squad. Two are playing regularly. That is how to use your academy. 

For me I don't want Lampard. Not right now. He should come when everything is ready. Not now, otherwise it can be a disaster. 

[Superblue 6,372]

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/news/chelsea-frank-lampard-sarri-job-16197435

This sets out some of the points I've made about the positives of Lampard becoming manager.

The biggest thing against Lampard is obviously experience. Having said that plenty of young, inexperienced managers have gone into high profile jobs and been successful (Guardiola, Zidane, even Mourinho)

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

4 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/news/chelsea-frank-lampard-sarri-job-16197435

This sets out some of the points I've made about the positives of Lampard becoming manager.

The biggest thing against Lampard is obviously experience. Having said that plenty of young, inexperienced managers have gone into high profile jobs and been successful (Guardiola, Zidane, even Mourinho)

Guardiola, Zidane, Mourinho are literally the bench mark and only ones I can really think of in terms of "inexperience" - which is debatable with Mou as he had veen a coach for 4 years before we got him - and instant success. Throw in Simeone and Conte too (although both were coaches for 5 years before going to Atletico and Juventus). Joachim Low at international level although his club career coaching wise is mediocre and he had 12 years experience of coaching at different levels before being Germany boss so basically he was hardly inexperienced. Apart from Pep and Zizou, not a huge huge amount. But even a huge bit below that calibre of coaches Andre Villas-Boas won how many trophies at Porto? 4 in a season? Was the 'next big coach' and he got spat out for trying to do something like what Sarri is. Unai Emery decent spells in Spain with Seville, flopped at PSG and is doing mediocre at Arsenal (but he will get the time to grow into it and develop the team). Julian Nagelsmann is potentially going to break the mould but hes hardly won anything.

Inexperienced managers that will actually either 1) be given time to do well or 2) can get instant success at big clubs are few and far between.

Regarding Zizou: Next season we will see more of what Zidane is like now as a manager without Ronaldo and with a huge rebuild needed. I don't think he will be nearly as successful.  

[communicate 2,703]

16 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

 

Regarding Zizou: Next season we will see more of what Zidane is like now as a manager without Ronaldo and with a huge rebuild needed. I don't think he will be nearly as successful.  

It is difficult to judge Zidane, he inherited wc squad and he didn't change much. He won 3 ucl in a row which almost an impossible task but he won the league only once. Finish 2nd or 3rd twice in la liga with quite big distance to Barca. 

If you are using eye test, his rm team is not as dominant as 3 time ucl winner. Last season I watched them once in La Liga and they looked absolutely awful. So for people who watch them this season and think it is because Zidane and Ronaldo. Nope they looked awful even with Zidane and cr. 

So is he a motivator? A  tactician? A squad builder? I don't know 

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

On 4/28/2019 at 0:02 AM, Henrique said:

Ajax manager.

 

On 4/28/2019 at 5:12 AM, Tomo said:

 

Ten Hag like Henrique said would be ideal, but I can see him having most of Europe after him especially if he wins the CL.

 

 

[Henrique 9,133]

On 4/28/2019 at 0:11 PM, communicate said:

Ill be surprised if we didn't. Just look at everywhere in Europe. Ter Stegen, Allison, Leno , ederson. Almost all of them have gk that is good on the ball. It is pretty much a requirement this days. 

In term of our games being enjoyable, I am pretty sure you are in the minority here. 

Tomo has a point. Conte football was nice when you are fighting for the league. When you are not its "soul destroying". Since 2004 I've been watching almost every Chelsea game, week after week. Last season at some point I just stopped watching when it became clear there was nothing left to fight for in the league. I keep watching Sarri games because somehow I always expect to see some improvement and his tactics are at least "intriguing".