🇩🇪 Kai Havertz

[Puliiszola 519]

57 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

People are crazy, he just came back from covid which he probably still hasn't recovered completely from all this while playing in a new league, he is a slow learner, will need half a season to get up to speed and level of PL at least if not whole season, he will undoubtedly succeed just needs time, people jumping the gun on him despite everyone knowing what a tremendous talent he is but defend the jack of all trades like no tomorrow, can't be serious.

Lol.

We lost our best player last summer, we were getting a complete overhaul of an identity. This was a new league for "jack of all trades" mount, and yet was he actually given time or respite by the likes of you despite showing 10 times better talent and putting in better performances than Kai.

Stop acting high and mighty when you specially have acted much worse in ridiculing our own youth player time and again. 

Everyone has a right to ask a question off kai. When you pay 70m, it's not just for a "future" star, it's a fee paid for someone who is already supposedly on a level close to that. So far, Kai has shown NOTHING to be remotely considered as a future superstar or ballondor winner

Also, stop using "new league" as an excuse. It's downright lazy reasoning. His problems are not because he is playing in a new league. It's because he can't do the bloody basics right. Can't pass, can't hold on to the ball or shield it, can't bloody turn with the ball without taking 5 touches and most importantly can't run or give a fuck. None of those things are down to a new league. They are down to poor basics and lazy play.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,920]

1 hour ago, Puliiszola said:

Lol.

We lost our best player last summer, we were getting a complete overhaul of an identity. This was a new league for "jack of all trades" mount, and yet was he actually given time or respite by the likes of you despite showing 10 times better talent and putting in better performances than Kai.

Stop acting high and mighty when you specially have acted much worse in ridiculing our own youth player time and again. 

Everyone has a right to ask a question off kai. When you pay 70m, it's not just for a "future" star, it's a fee paid for someone who is already supposedly on a level close to that. So far, Kai has shown NOTHING to be remotely considered as a future superstar or ballondor winner

Also, stop using "new league" as an excuse. It's downright lazy reasoning. His problems are not because he is playing in a new league. It's because he can't do the bloody basics right. Can't pass, can't hold on to the ball or shield it, can't bloody turn with the ball without taking 5 touches and most importantly can't run or give a fuck. None of those things are down to a new league. They are down to poor basics and lazy play.

The Basics is the key to it. Kai, even when he was playing well(which I suggest has only been 2, maybe 3, times this season) seems to struggle with the basics of play. He does something "Amazing" which makes people think a class player is there, and perhaps there is, but this guy shanks and misplaces basic passes with a consistency you wouldnt expect someone who costs as much as he did to do.

 

The price is an issue. We spent "sure thing" money on potential.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Do not start him against Wolves.

[R2D2 368]

3 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Lol.

We lost our best player last summer, we were getting a complete overhaul of an identity. This was a new league for "jack of all trades" mount, and yet was he actually given time or respite by the likes of you despite showing 10 times better talent and putting in better performances than Kai.

Stop acting high and mighty when you specially have acted much worse in ridiculing our own youth player time and again. 

Everyone has a right to ask a question off kai. When you pay 70m, it's not just for a "future" star, it's a fee paid for someone who is already supposedly on a level close to that. So far, Kai has shown NOTHING to be remotely considered as a future superstar or ballondor winner

Also, stop using "new league" as an excuse. It's downright lazy reasoning. His problems are not because he is playing in a new league. It's because he can't do the bloody basics right. Can't pass, can't hold on to the ball or shield it, can't bloody turn with the ball without taking 5 touches and most importantly can't run or give a fuck. None of those things are down to a new league. They are down to poor basics and lazy play.

Sorry to say this but half of your post is pure bollocks. Mount can only dream of having a quarter of Havertz talent let alone 10 times showing better talent.

Why you pretending like Mount is doing the basics right when until Tottenham cup match he looked like absolute shit, misplacing some of the easiest passes in football history and even now lacks any sort of consistency in scoring. Mount is now in form and playing good it's true but if this is the best he can which is being an useful player in our squad who can finally do the basics good while in form than I dread to think how he plays when he loses a bit of form again.

Kai already showed glimpses of what he can do against Sevilla and Barnsley, not much but it's there just needs to settle in and will explode sooner or later. And yes I used Barnsley as an example the same team against which Mount embarrassed himself in.

The price was maybe steep but nowadays you pay for talent and not the final product, sad but true.

As for productivity, this season Mount 1 goal, 5 assists in 18 matches (a joke assist robbed from Tammy included)

Havertz 4 goals, 4 assists in 16 matches

If Havertz is playing out of sorts now and still has better productivity, than rest assured when he hits a bit of form he will look incredible.

I don't mind Lampard doing the same thing as with Pulisic and ease him slowly in, either way I'm not worried about him this season we aren't challenging, build up for future seasons.

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

1 hour ago, R2D2 said:

Mount 1 goal, 5 assists in 18 matches (a joke assist robbed from Tammy included)

Havertz 4 goals, 4 assists in 16 matches

I agree with first part of your post but this is not true. You took this from Transfermarkt. They count winning penalties (Havertz-Palace) and deflected shots (Mount-WBA) as assists.

Also I would not take seriously that game against Championship side plus it has to be said that Mount has two corner assists.

So for me Havertz has 1 goal and 3 assists this season and Mount 1 goal and 3 assist (2 corners). And majority came against shit sides. Kovacic stats are even worst...

FFS Barkley scored against Liverpool, Leicester and assisted against Arsenal. Much better player in the final 3rd than what we have from all midfielders. 

Gallagher has the same number of goals in the league as our 6 midfielders (not counting Jorginho penalties). Is it too much to expect more from them in the final 3rd?

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, R2D2 said:

Sorry to say this but half of your post is pure bollocks. Mount can only dream of having a quarter of Havertz talent let alone 10 times showing better talent.

Why you pretending like Mount is doing the basics right when until Tottenham cup match he looked like absolute shit, misplacing some of the easiest passes in football history and even now lacks any sort of consistency in scoring. Mount is now in form and playing good it's true but if this is the best he can which is being an useful player in our squad who can finally do the basics good while in form than I dread to think how he plays when he loses a bit of form again.

Kai already showed glimpses of what he can do against Sevilla and Barnsley, not much but it's there just needs to settle in and will explode sooner or later. And yes I used Barnsley as an example the same team against which Mount embarrassed himself in.

The price was maybe steep but nowadays you pay for talent and not the final product, sad but true.

As for productivity, this season Mount 1 goal, 5 assists in 18 matches (a joke assist robbed from Tammy included)

Havertz 4 goals, 4 assists in 16 matches

If Havertz is playing out of sorts now and still has better productivity, than rest assured when he hits a bit of form he will look incredible.

I don't mind Lampard doing the same thing as with Pulisic and ease him slowly in, either way I'm not worried about him this season we aren't challenging, build up for future seasons.

Are you an idiot or a troll.

Understand the difference between mount and Kai. Mount is a 8, Kai is a 10. Kai plays far more advanced than mount. Comparing there goals and assists to somehow use as a yardstick of comparision is LOL. Specially when out 4 of his goals, 3 came against Barnsley.

And if you think, mount has shown "no quality" then you are just a blind hater. And I refuse to give the likes of you the time of the day, who won't be able to understand quality if it hit you in the face. 

But nice try. Next we will have, Kai has been better than kante, look at their goals and assists. Fucking embarrassing. 

And let me be clear here. I don't dislike Kai. I hope he turns out to be the player everyone wants him to be and EXPECTS him to be, which is totally different to you and the anti mount brigade who are either stupid or just blind with hate. What's worse is "fans" like you would be happier if we flop and mount does not play well, than us winning with mount putting a great performance after another the way he has been doing. Anyways, I don't think fans should not question performances specially when the performances lack heart and desire. There is one thing to be struggling and to be out of form, and totally different to give your all and put it all on the field. Kai is not even doing the latter. One good performance against Barnsley (lol) or a second string Sevilla simply is not enough to justify him and his "little steep" fee. 

[Puliiszola 519]

2 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

The Basics is the key to it. Kai, even when he was playing well(which I suggest has only been 2, maybe 3, times this season) seems to struggle with the basics of play. He does something "Amazing" which makes people think a class player is there, and perhaps there is, but this guy shanks and misplaces basic passes with a consistency you wouldnt expect someone who costs as much as he did to do.

 

The price is an issue. We spent "sure thing" money on potential.

Exactly this.

And I am so confused with people comparing it to pulisic (actual settling issues), or mount or James. 

Neither of those players had an issue with the BASICS of the game. Passing (like you pointed out) is one aspect, ball shielding is abysmal. How can someone worth 70m and world class potential, not have the basic ball shielding ability. I played college level and still could do it better. And don't even get me started on his turning with the ball. I mean just to turn his body, he has a bigger span than a boeing 747. These are not "settling issues", these are basic footballing skills that if one of our own youth player had missing, he would be abused consistently and ridiculed to the max. 

I hope he improves all of this and proves me wrong, but honestly, I am so underwhelmed by him. What's worse is kepa, kai, Morata, Torres these are our top 4 transfers by fees, and I simply don't want him to end up like the other 3 on that list. 

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

4 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Mount is a 8, Kai is a 10. Kai plays far more advanced than mount. Comparing there goals and assists to somehow use as a yardstick of comparision is LOL. 

When we played 4-2-3-1 Mount played as winger or AM. Havertz also. Now when we play 4-3-3 they are both playing number 8 unless rare winger performance like Kai yesterday. So this season Kai does not play advanced.

[Tomo 21,751]

48 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I agree with first part of your post but this is not true. You took this from Transfermarkt. They count winning penalties (Havertz-Palace) and deflected shots (Mount-WBA) as assists.

Also I would not take seriously that game against Championship side plus it has to be said that Mount has two corner assists.

Hat tricks are great achievements regardless of the opposition.

It's one more than Ryan Giggs and David Beckham ever got and they had many games against teams of the level or lower to Barnsley.

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

Btw Leverkusen is doing very well this season without him. Top of the table in Bundesliga. 15 points and 1st place in EL.

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Btw Leverkusen is doing very well this season without him. Top of the table in Bundesliga. 15 points and 1st place in EL.

They won't last long up there...

[bigbluewillie 1,930]

16 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Lol.

We lost our best player last summer, we were getting a complete overhaul of an identity. This was a new league for "jack of all trades" mount, and yet was he actually given time or respite by the likes of you despite showing 10 times better talent and putting in better performances than Kai.

Stop acting high and mighty when you specially have acted much worse in ridiculing our own youth player time and again. 

Everyone has a right to ask a question off kai. When you pay 70m, it's not just for a "future" star, it's a fee paid for someone who is already supposedly on a level close to that. So far, Kai has shown NOTHING to be remotely considered as a future superstar or ballondor winner

Also, stop using "new league" as an excuse. It's downright lazy reasoning. His problems are not because he is playing in a new league. It's because he can't do the bloody basics right. Can't pass, can't hold on to the ball or shield it, can't bloody turn with the ball without taking 5 touches and most importantly can't run or give a fuck. None of those things are down to a new league. They are down to poor basics and lazy play.

Read this, from BBC

i'll go along with this instead of your assessment.

Chelsea manager Frank Lampard says people must be patient with £71m signing Kai Havertz.

The Germany international was taken off after 68 minutes of the 1-0 defeat at Everton on Saturday, the fourth successive game he has been substituted.

But Lampard defended the 21-year-old midfielder.

"In the modern day there is going to be criticism for every player of every club who loses a game," he said.

"We should be patient with Havertz from the Chelsea end because he is a top-quality talent who has come into this league.

"He can play in any position across the front three and he has played on the right countless times before he played for Chelsea.

"People who want to jump on to criticise [should] just wait and give a young player time. I know the player that Kai Havertz is going to be."

Since joining from Bundesliga side Bayer Leverkusen in the summer, Havertz has scored three times in 17 appearances - netting a hat-trick against Barnsley in the Carabao Cup.

Speaking to Football Focus at the weekend he said that contracting Covid-19 in November had hit him "very hard" but said he is now "very fit again".

Lampard said the aftermath of Saturday's defeat at Goodison Park will be "a challenge for the players".

"In the Premier League you are going to lose games and it is important to put perspective on it," he said.

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, bigbluewillie said:

Read this, from BBC

i'll go along with this instead of your assessment.

Chelsea manager Frank Lampard says people must be patient with £71m signing Kai Havertz.

The Germany international was taken off after 68 minutes of the 1-0 defeat at Everton on Saturday, the fourth successive game he has been substituted.

But Lampard defended the 21-year-old midfielder.

"In the modern day there is going to be criticism for every player of every club who loses a game," he said.

"We should be patient with Havertz from the Chelsea end because he is a top-quality talent who has come into this league.

"He can play in any position across the front three and he has played on the right countless times before he played for Chelsea.

"People who want to jump on to criticise [should] just wait and give a young player time. I know the player that Kai Havertz is going to be."

Since joining from Bundesliga side Bayer Leverkusen in the summer, Havertz has scored three times in 17 appearances - netting a hat-trick against Barnsley in the Carabao Cup.

Speaking to Football Focus at the weekend he said that contracting Covid-19 in November had hit him "very hard" but said he is now "very fit again".

Lampard said the aftermath of Saturday's defeat at Goodison Park will be "a challenge for the players".

"In the Premier League you are going to lose games and it is important to put perspective on it," he said.

Mate, this is fine. Obviously FL rates KAI, that's the only reason he was willing to spend so big on him.

Point is not just giving Kai the time. I am all willing to give players the time, specially young ones. Have you seen me moan about mount, James, pulisic, Tammy? Infact I am one of the few who are consistently defending these players. But there is a massive difference between these players and Kai.

Read this one with Tomo:

 

 

I feel it's fine to question a player, I am not hating on him. I just got riled up when a poster like R2D2, who is nothing but a troll, and has been bashing players like mount left right and center, has the balls to call others crazy for raising some issues with Kai. 

[Hutcho 8,443]

Just ignore the known troll. Always bringing mount up at every opportunity. Probably crying because mount has been miles better than kai all season long. And this isn't a dig on kai as we are still expecting big things from kai and I think he'll get there. These things take time.

 

But coming at mount when we are talking about kai is not a good look when one has been one of our best players. I'd bench kai for the next game and ease him back in. I want him to be great and I'm sure he will be but it's not happenning for him right now.

 

Thinking about it he hasn't been on here in a while because he only shows up when he thinks he can bash mount. He should probably find a new team to "support" as mount ain't going anywhere from this team

[Tomo 21,751]

10 minutes ago, Hutcho said:

Just ignore the known troll. Always bringing mount up at every opportunity. Probably crying because mount has been miles better than kai all season long. And this isn't a dig on kai as we are still expecting big things from kai and I think he'll get there. These things take time.

 

But coming at mount when we are talking about kai is not a good look when one has been one of our best players. I'd bench kai for the next game and ease him back in. I want him to be great and I'm sure he will be but it's not happenning for him right now.

 

Thinking about it he hasn't been on here in a while because he only shows up when he thinks he can bash mount. He should probably find a new team to "support" as mount ain't going anywhere from this team

Honestly baffles me how anyone can be so bitter about one of our own. 

It's not even like he's a bellend like Dele Alli either, he's one of the most genuine guys in football.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Honestly baffles me how anyone can be so bitter about one of our own. 
It's not even like he's a bellend like Dele Alli either, he's one of the most genuine guys in football.

Yeah just get behind all of them. I want them all to be amazing. Why's anything gotta be one or the other. I don't get it

[Superblue 6,372]

It's lazy to think spending such money on a 21 year old will immediately reap dividends. People are quick to forget that footballers are human and all will take different times to settle into new surroundings. Havertz even more so being younger than our other signings and he's never had to deal with a transfer move before either, so Leverkusen has been his life.

This season more than most will impact adaptation also with no pre season, covid restrictions making it more difficult to settle into a new country and to top it off he contracted Covid too. My mate was recently positive, who is far fitter than I am, and said it's the worst illness he can ever remember suffering from and literally wiped him out. It sounds like Havertz has reacted in the same way to it and he looks really off the pace at the moment, not in sync with teammates and has lost confidence.

The area of the pitch he plays he's going to get closed down quicker and less time on the ball and he just needs to adapt to that pace. It's a different situation to say Werner, who has such ridiculous pace that teams will stand off him rather than go up against him, affording him more time and space usually to operate. 

Before Covid whilst he wasn't pulling up trees he looked like he was growing as a player and there's certain aspects of his game which are almost effortless. When he's in full flow I've no doubt he'll offer something that other players in our team don't offer and will be a big player for us. If that isn't until later into this season, or even next season then so be it, I'm happy to remain patient because I think he'll be worth the wait.

Some really key players for us in recent years took a long time to settle (a whole season for some) and were far more experienced and mature than Havertz. The likes of Makelele, Essien, Ivanovic, Pedro. Even English players like Ashley Cole and Lampard himself took a long time to get going. It's pretty embarrassing if some people are that short sighted to consider him a bust or waste of money within 3 months. 

[R2D2 368]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:07 PM, NikkiCFC said:

When we played 4-2-3-1 Mount played as winger or AM. Havertz also. Now when we play 4-3-3 they are both playing number 8 unless rare winger performance like Kai yesterday. So this season Kai does not play advanced.

That guy is a legit troll, it's like he hasn't even been watching the games this season to know this, but of course this stat doesn't favor Mount so he is clutching at straws. Each time a game finished and I came here to read comments this guy is the first to post in the Mount thread and laugh and make ironic remarks at people who don't rate Mount but the saddest thing is you would think he is putting Messi like performances for why he is so smug, which he clearly isn't.

That said I like how Mount has been playing last couple months or so, nothing special but at least he is making himself useful and has an impact in games unlike before.

As for Havertz exciting times ahead once he settles, if Mount was given over an year time to adapt, Havertz surely deserves as much considering he is a lot better which is why is baffling that guy is questioning him for over a month now despite being here for less than 4 months, price tag should be irrelevant especially in these times right now since the market went to shit, it doesn't always reflect what you think you paying for to what you actually get which is insane talent but not the finished product.

Now it's up to Frank now to develop this talent and make sure he takes the right steps to reach that finished product. Look at Oscar bangs of talent and mismanaged by Mourinho who tried to turn him into Mikel 2.0

[Puliiszola 519]

8 hours ago, R2D2 said:

That guy is a legit troll, it's like he hasn't even been watching the games this season to know this, but of course this stat doesn't favor Mount so he is clutching at straws. Each time a game finished and I came here to read comments this guy is the first to post in the Mount thread and laugh and make ironic remarks at people who don't rate Mount but the saddest thing is you would think he is putting Messi like performances for why he is so smug, which he clearly isn't.

That said I like how Mount has been playing last couple months or so, nothing special but at least he is making himself useful and has an impact in games unlike before.

As for Havertz exciting times ahead once he settles, if Mount was given over an year time to adapt, Havertz surely deserves as much considering he is a lot better which is why is baffling that guy is questioning him for over a month now despite being here for less than 4 months, price tag should be irrelevant especially in these times right now since the market went to shit, it doesn't always reflect what you think you paying for to what you actually get which is insane talent but not the finished product.

Now it's up to Frank now to develop this talent and make sure he takes the right steps to reach that finished product. Look at Oscar bangs of talent and mismanaged by Mourinho who tried to turn him into Mikel 2.0

Hahahah.

Lets have a poll on here and see who people think is an actual troll or not. Wanna put your ass where your mouth is?

Anyone and their freaking dogs could see the talent in mount. Anyone except for the SAD and PATHETIC "fans" like you who just want the next shiny toy. Stop putting yourself up on a pedestal because you are literally nothing but a troll who gets his jollies off of ridiculing players/people from behind a computer and a protected VPN. 

Also, it should be irrelevant of the price tag? Seriously?  What are we ,7? Welcome to the real world buddy. Where the price tag dictates the expectations, sets the pressure on a player, magnifies that pressure from the media and the fans. Some get over it, others crumble under it. 

Anyways, I am done with a troll like you. But if you really want a poll, lets have it, will be interesting to see.

[R2D2 368]

1 hour ago, Puliiszola said:

Hahahah.

Lets have a poll on here and see who people think is an actual troll or not. Wanna put your ass where your mouth is?

Anyone and their freaking dogs could see the talent in mount. Anyone except for the SAD and PATHETIC "fans" like you who just want the next shiny toy. Stop putting yourself up on a pedestal because you are literally nothing but a troll who gets his jollies off of ridiculing players/people from behind a computer and a protected VPN. 

Also, it should be irrelevant of the price tag? Seriously?  What are we ,7? Welcome to the real world buddy. Where the price tag dictates the expectations, sets the pressure on a player, magnifies that pressure from the media and the fans. Some get over it, others crumble under it. 

Anyways, I am done with a troll like you. But if you really want a poll, lets have it, will be interesting to see.

I don't care about any childish 4chan type poll or something to notice all your posts are passive aggressive, some may not like me or my views which is fine, thing is all of them show their age and can actually make a post without feeling the need to personal attack or insult, can't say the same about you.

You comment in this thread for over a month now asking what are Havertz strengths and after say everyone can spot Mount's talent from a mile away, can't take you seriously. You tried to call me an idiot for saying the assist/goal contribution is irrelevant when comparing them because Havertz played in a more advanced role, which is nonsense as well. You remind of a certain poster on the other forum called didier or something who couldn't make a point without insulting and was angry at anyone who didn't rate Willian.

If you are done with people like me, why even quote me when I didn't mention you to begin with in this discussion, the post wasn't necessary addressed to you but to the people who defended Mount for over an year now but can't have little patience with Kai even though he is new and adapting while coming back from strong covid symptoms. I know someone who contacted the virus in April and he says even now he doesn't feel 100% so it's not as easy as testing negative and healthy again.

Did Chelsea take money from your account to pay Kai to pretend the price tag is relevant? We as fans knew before he even signed he was never worth that price tag for what he offers right now but long term if he develops and fulfills his huge talent will be worth it. Think you should be more angry with players like Drinkwater who was already 27 and the finished product than thinking price tag for a 21 years old with huge potential should dictate expectations. If we bought 21 years old Hazard this year you can be sure we would need to shell out 120 millions if not more to get him. I agree with the last part that some crumble under the pressure of price tag but again should be irrelevant as of now since we obviously haven't seen anywhere near enough to draw such a conclusion.

Last point I want to make, you must really hate me or simply misjudging to think I hate or dislike Mount as a person or human being, I dislike him as a football player and what he offers for my favorite team, last couple months he improved I admit but isn't anywhere near a world beater as one would believe reading some of the posts here, imagine taking Frank nepotism and Chillwell friendship banter serious. Mind you those words about ridiculing or attacking people, a bit of humbleness wouldn't hurt since you've clashed with several other people on here if I remember right.

Anyways we've derailed enough this thread, feel free to do what you like but I won't respond furthermore in relation to this off topic and Mount for that matter just Kai if you have anything to add.