Mikel John Obi

[The only place to be 11,313]

Luiz showed interesting stuff in terms of vertical passing... But otherwise that was pretty poor: often caught out of position and way too much fouls

You seem to consider that covering space is the easy way to get a big paycheck at Chelsea... don't you ever noticed the difference between games played with Meireles or Luiz as the deeper midfielder and the ones with Mikel, there's a slight difference in terms of freedom and space allowed to the attacking opponent between the lines

You realise that Luiz has only played less than 10 games in midfield don't you?

It's not about covering space, but also making a nuisance of yourself to disrupt the other team's rhythm (I'm not sure which graph best shows that for you) and getting the team moving on the front foot.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Could you just rate the gif ? At least say how weak do you rate Fellaini on the human being scale ? That was the what I expected the most in your answer...

You can't tell everything about that goal from one gif. You need to see the players' movement before the goal to see who was marking who and the dropped assignments.

On the 'human being scale', I've actually been mightily impressed in a couple of games (Man City 2010, Man United 2012) to really see Fellani put the team on his back. That is to say he's taken over games, be it in a defensive capacity or as a second striker, and drive his team forward whilst dominating the other team. Not all players have the capacity or the will to do that.

Sorry I don't have a gif or a chart for that.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

You're comparing different things: if Mikel gets to play more ambitious passes, you'll obviously agree that there'll be a part of waste. A bad transition may be an inaccurate pass from Mikel toward an attackers, pass being intercepted with 4 players upper to the ball.

In case of Cole you're right but that's over-running his role: he started from a deep position and saw the opportunity to ounumber forwards, when he did so he was likely to be covered somehow by a midfielder etc...

That's different from a player attempting and missing a pass where he shouldn't have done so, I mean Mikel wouldn't say "hey Eden, stay back I'm about to shit myself on that long ball and we'll face a counter attack".

In case of a run from behind that's something clearly noticeable by team mates, quite often you see the player gesturing to a team mate to order him to stay back. In case of a pass that's not predictable, that's the combination of the player and the environnement that makes the pass being intercepted.

So then the team has to start adapting when error is commited, nobody would be prepared like if there's someone pushing forward. That's a matter of a couple of seconds but that's often the time required for professional players to exploit a lost ball and counter clinically.

I don't know if I managed to be clear enough... ?

I understand, thats why I said in my previous post you need inteligent and responsible players on the pitch like Obi.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I was just asking about the fact not to give a single fuck, not jumping for the ball (what Ashley Cole does in open play even if against a 7 feet opponent) and turning his back to the play. For me that's couldn't care less attitude

Some should really put individual performances into the context of the game - that's the game they see on the pitch, not on whoscored.com.

Actually the whole Fellaini myth is based on those couple of games he played as a support central player last season, making people say that he played there most of the season. If Fellaini was impressive against MU, City or whoever ; he also had shockers against the likes of Wolves, Norwich, Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton last season.

But obviously Mikel's consistency to manage 9 passes out of 10 and so 60 times per game every week doesn't only makes him a weak human being but also an average sportsmen unable to maintain the same level of performance wether he plays against Barcelona at the Nou Camp or Norwich at home

Mikel has an average rating of 6.79 in league games on whoscored.com. Fellaini's is 7.56.

Throwing stats around without context is fun. Personally I like to factor in what I see on the pitch too, and I still haven't received an adequate answer as to why Mikel has still failed to win over such a large proportion of supporters.

[The Rising Sun 711]

Luiz showed interesting stuff in terms of vertical passing... But otherwise that was pretty poor: often caught out of position and way too much fouls

You seem to consider that covering space is the easy way to get a big paycheck at Chelsea... don't you ever noticed the difference between games played with Meireles or Luiz as the deeper midfielder and the ones with Mikel, there's a slight difference in terms of freedom and space allowed to the attacking opponent between the lines

Im not saying Mikel is a bad DM, i just dont think he is the pro-active type of midfielder we need....

Mikel's movements are very mechanised and repetitive, in a very passive sort of way...

If i had to be brutal, id say he is the Torres of Midfield.... BUT.... im not saying that..... (PLEASE DONT QUOTE ME ON THIS, ITS AN EXHAGGERATION BEYOND LIMITS)

I just dont think he is what our club needs moving forward....

When our game was more direct with drogba and co, he had a functioning role which fit the system to an extent.... His passive sitting back and covering spaces worked.....

With our new team style, we need aggression, bullying and a commanding personality in that position, which i dont think Mikel is....

Im not saying Luiz is, or will be that person, but we need a different kind of DM now.

Sometimes for a team to excel in a particular style, there are always some quality players that simply dont fit in the way they did before....

I still like the guy and he is not detrimental to our team when he plays, infact he does a decent shift..... But, IMO we need someone who's style is the polar opposite of Mikel.

And Meireles was a panic buy imo, not WC by any stretch of the Imagination, and Luiz has played 3-4 games there.... so cant judge....

[DDA 9,929]

You realise that Luiz has only played less than 10 games in midfield don't you?

It's not about covering space, but also making a nuisance of yourself to disrupt the other team's rhythm (I'm not sure which graph best shows that for you) and getting the team moving on the front foot.

Some people are completley wrapped up in their obsession for statistical comparison. I swear that they forget that the game is played by humans and not numbers. The only numbers I would bother comparing ate goals scored.

[JDY 1,290]

With our new team style, we need aggression, bullying and a commanding personality in that position, which i dont think Mikel is....

Im not saying Luiz is, or will be that person, but we need a different kind of DM now.

Étienne Capoue

[The only place to be 11,313]

Anyway in all farness I wouldn't give a single fuck if 90% of the opinion thinks that a player is shit if I'm convinced he's not. Because I'm not a sheep and because I also know that a fair proportion of those 90% are yes-men and naive followers who jumped on the bandwagon (whereas they didn't had a clue in the first place).

'Yes men and naive followers'. I know some of these people and they've supported this club long before you were born and know more about the game then you'll ever know. Disregarding them like that is disrespectful.

I guess that's partly aimed at me, seriously that makes me laugh as long as the only thing I actually do is illustrating my point with figures. Mocking stats really is the easy way to skirt a proper debate.

So is spewing them out without contextualising them.

[Kojo 4,676]

So after reading Sebs posts it all comes down to Mikel being the best DM in the world, because all he has done is look at every other DM in the world in a negative way.

Since when is he ever right anyway lmao, you go on about how bad Fellaini is, i bet he would come in this team and actually do well, that pretty much makes your 1000000000 words pointless if i must say.

[Kojo 4,676]

Some people are completley wrapped up in their obsession for statistical comparison. I swear that they forget that the game is played by humans and not numbers. The only numbers I would bother comparing ate goals scored.

It's stupid, the people who try to justify Mikel have to go through lengths of stats and all sorts of bollocks just to try and make out he puts in this 'huge' shift in for the team. What a load of bollocks, well he's been suspended and been at the ACON and i haven't missed him one bit. And that was when all the morons on here where saying we are going to miss John Obi Mikel badly oh and it will show how vital he actually is to the team.

Yeah what a load of bollocks that was, if anything our double pivot has been better, especially than it was when under RDM.

What's the point in looking so deep into stats when in almost every player in teh world you can find something special about them if you look hard enough. It's such a stupid way to get your point across, how about instead of looking at his sidepass oh i mean pass completion, why don't you fucking watch the game and explain how he isn't so shit.

[Kojo 4,676]

Would you tell me more about Pienaar's game against us, his first goal's typology and related stuff ?

I didn't see his goal, i managed to get home 20 minutes in the game.

[Kojo 4,676]

When is he expected to sign for us? Wasn't it last week? At the moment he's nowhere near to Chelsea

(Anyway let's wait for a couple of years to see if he'll really be tore in between Manure, Madrid, Chelsea and Guardiola's Munich at one point.)

LMAO so now because a player isn't related to Chelsea he obviously can't be good enough?

I forgot our board were so wise and good at signings.

[Kojo 4,676]

So watch the goal and come back to explain how Mikel is brilliantly positioned to protect the CBs on a cross to prevent anyone to exploit a lost ball, a second ball. Then, look at the team sheets and notice that Mikel isn't there, nor anyone else in that very position at the edge of the box.

One goal? one fucking goal? i oughta give you a slap. Mikel has conceded far too many goals for us.

It's like when against Spurs you tried to justify Torres's movement, but what did that do for you in the end? were you right about it? obviously fucking not.

[The only place to be 11,313]

So watch the goal and come back to explain how Mikel is brilliantly positioned to protect the CBs on a cross to prevent anyone to exploit a lost ball, a second ball. Then, look at the team sheets and notice that Mikel isn't there, nor anyone else in that very position at the edge of the box.

Couldn't one find fault with other goals where he has been present? Like Swansea away? Or Juve at home?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

It's stupid, the people who try to justify Mikel have to go through lengths of stats and all sorts of bollocks just to try and make out he puts in this 'huge' shift in for the team. What a load of bollocks, well he's been suspended and been at the ACON and i haven't missed him one bit. And that was when all the morons on here where saying we are going to miss John Obi Mikel badly oh and it will show how vital he actually is to the team.

Yeah what a load of bollocks that was, if anything our double pivot has been better, especially than it was when under RDM.

What's the point in looking so deep into stats when in almost every player in teh world you can find something special about them if you look hard enough. It's such a stupid way to get your point across, how about instead of looking at his sidepass oh i mean pass completion, why don't you fucking watch the game and explain how he isn't so shit.

100% agree. Classifying every thing as either "shit" or "BOSS" for no given reason, calling people morons, and discrediting all facts and statistics because you know you can't counter them with logic, is the way to prove a point. Backing your opinion with stats and facts is just shit and totally not "BOSS".