closed Valencia 2-2 Chelsea

[Jase 43,479]

10 hours ago, Tomo said:

The change to the seeding system has made finishing 1st and 2nd more of an even playing field than it use to be.

While you're not exactly wrong, it looks much worse to finish 2nd in the group this season.

GROUP WINNERS
PSG
Bayern Munich
Man City
Juventus
Liverpool/Napoli/RB Salzburg
Barcelona
Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon

GROUP RUNNERS-UP
Real Madrid
Spurs
Shakhtar/Dinamo Zagreb/Atalanta
Atletico/Leverkusen
Liverpool/Napoli/RB Salzburg
Inter/Dortmund
Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

While you're not exactly wrong, it looks much worse to finish 2nd in the group this season.

GROUP WINNERS
PSG
Bayern Munich
Man City
Juventus
Liverpool/Napoli/RB Salzburg
Barcelona
Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon

GROUP RUNNERS-UP
Real Madrid
Spurs
Shakhtar/Dinamo Zagreb/Atalanta
Atletico/Leverkusen
Liverpool/Napoli/RB Salzburg
Inter/Dortmund
Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon

It's in Chelsea's hands now and if you think about it Chelsea can still finish first with a win v Lille and if Valencia get the three points v Ajax which I don't think they will because Ajax are a level above, but everything is possible. Bottom line is with a win Chelsea is through no matter what, even with a draw should Ajax win v Valencia. 

Last 16 it's only by February and a lot can happen until then, strange things have happened in a very strange competition such as CL - look no further than some months ago when a poor Man United side have knocked out Paris. 

But we're not in this competition to win it, for me I guess it is important for this squad and for Lampard to face this kind of matches like the one in Valencia or the one v Ajax in London - it can only help a young manager and a young squad to grow. 

 

[Milan 17,958]

There is only one way of us topping the group - us beating Lille while Ajax and Valencia sharing a draw. Which could happen, considering Valencia will have to go to Amsterdam to win the game (assuming we beat Lille).

[Johnnyeye 7,510]

5 minutes ago, milan.cech said:

There is only one way of us topping the group - us beating Lille while Ajax and Valencia sharing a draw. Which could happen, considering Valencia will have to go to Amsterdam to win the game (assuming we beat Lille).

knowing this club, we are in store for more drama at the Bridge 

[killer1257 3,282]

No disrespect to Lille but if we can't beat them at home, then we don't deserve to go through.

I agree but they could easily have beaten Ajax Amsterdam in Amsterdam, so we should be worried, especially when players like Azpi will never get benched

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

[Special Juan 28,141]

I'm still absolutely baffled how Kepa was beaten easily again for that second goal

[killer1257 3,282]

I'm still absolutely baffled how Kepa was beaten easily again for that second goal

Even if he had 20 cm longer arms, he would not have gotten that goal. Such goals happen all the time and no keeper saves them.

Still a shit Performance by Kepa

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

[Jase 43,479]

24 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I agree but they could easily have beaten Ajax Amsterdam in Amsterdam, so we should be worried, especially when players like Azpi will never get benched

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

But Azpi got benched against Palace?  The problem is we don't have great full back options right now. Between Azpi, Emerson and Alonso, Azpi is still arguably the most dependable of the lot.

Anyway, not sure why you singled out Azpi. If we perform the way we did in the last 2 CL games against Lille, we'll likely get KOed. The whole team needs to do better. Lampard needs to set up the team better. 

[Tomo 21,751]

7 hours ago, communicate said:

I did not watch our game against Ajax but against pool in istambul, the moment firmino came on, it was all pool. 

Of course in UCL with luck anything can happen. I am just not confident. 

For me against big team, we are exposed sefensively. Teams can create chances when they want to with us. So if we come to play against big team thinking, we can create so it is fine that they can create,  we will lose more than we win. We have Willian who is not clincal, and two kids up front, it is just suicide to play toe to toe. 

If the mindset, then we will sign a RW next season who is clinical, so it is fine. Sure if the winger is basically Willian with better number, absolutely, if the winger is a direct winger, it means even less control. 

They had about a 15 minute spell in and around their equaliser where they really turned it on and we couldn't live with them but beyond that we were more than a match.

[killer1257 3,282]

But Azpi got benched against Palace?  The problem is we don't have great full back options right now. Between Azpi, Emerson and Alonso, Azpi is still arguably the most dependable of the lot.
Anyway, not sure why you singled out Azpi. If we perform the way we did in the last 2 CL games against Lille, we'll likely get KOed. The whole team needs to do better. Lampard needs to set up the team better. 

Lamps said he wanted to rest him and give RJ some minutes for Palace.

Azpi for me was the worst Defender on the pitch. Almost all crosses that Valencia made came from his side and I do not even know where Azpi was. Poor Kovacic had to cover his position all the time.
Azpi does not offer defensive stability nor offensive improvement.
I hope Lamps loses his favouritism towards Azpi. Reminds me a little bit of Mou and Ivanovic.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk

[Tomo 21,751]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

While you're not exactly wrong, it looks much worse to finish 2nd in the group this season.

GROUP WINNERS
PSG
Bayern Munich
Man City
Juventus
Liverpool/Napoli/RB Salzburg
Barcelona
Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon

GROUP RUNNERS-UP
Real Madrid
Spurs
Shakhtar/Dinamo Zagreb/Atalanta
Atletico/Leverkusen
Liverpool/Napoli/RB Salzburg
Inter/Dortmund
Leipzig/Zenit/Lyon

Real, Atletico and Inter will probably be just as hard as any of the group winners on current form. Either way the odds of dodging a killer last 16 tie ain't great.

[Jase 43,479]

51 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Real, Atletico and Inter will probably be just as hard as any of the group winners on current form. Either way the odds of dodging a killer last 16 tie ain't great.

But compare to PSG, Bayern, Juventus and Barcelona, Atletico and Inter are somewhat more manageable, IMO. More "easier" teams lurking as group runners-up than winners.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Lamps said he wanted to rest him and give RJ some minutes for Palace.

Pretty sure Lampard's main reason was James had been impressing and he decided to play him. Resting Azpi was the secondary reason - perhaps a diplomatic response of dropping him on the back of that 4-4 draw with Ajax. 

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Azpi for me was the worst Defender on the pitch. Almost all crosses that Valencia made came from his side and I do not even know where Azpi was. Poor Kovacic had to cover his position all the time.
Azpi does not offer defensive stability nor offensive improvement.

Azpi's defensive performances over the last 2 months or so have generally been fine, this after a bad start. But of course, no one said anything. One not so good performance and suddenly people are getting their pitchforks out again. People thought he would struggle against Sterling at the weekend but he kept him quiet and did a solid defensive job but no one said anything. Was Azpi really the worst last night? Could make a case for Zouma or Christensen. The biggest question/problem, if anything, is why did Lampard suddenly change the entire back 4 last night for a key game? They played like strangers instead of a unit, made worse by the fact that they got no defensive protection whatsoever from the midfield. 

[Fernando 6,585]

20 hours ago, Yeboii said:

Surprised to see Tomori out, but Christensen is so good that I have no worries.

So is Christensen so good? 

Just continue to show that our cb options are woeful. 

Waiting for transfer to open to see who we can get.. 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

We just need to beat Lille and take it from there. Lets hope we are doing better by the time CL comes back again. Hopefuly no injuries, a settled defence and all of them roaring to go big.

And JM was right, we need to be more compact in the big games, you cant count outscoring every team, no team is that lucky, not even pool and they are good and supremely jammy/lucky.

FL himself can surely see he must adapt a bit better in the big games regarding tactics and shape, im sure we will get there.

Even if we do all that we still need quality players coming in, we will need to spend and spend good......then and only then will we get closer to the finished article.

[Special Juan 28,141]

Lille are brutal, we will beat them.

[bigbluewillie 1,930]

imho

Lamps needs to sort out this defending of ours, it's truly shocking, it has to be a priority we can't continue defending like this and be successful our luck will run out.

With better finishers Valencia could of had 4 or 5 goals, we can''t can't keep a clean sheet anywhere.

Yeah I know we're in transition but fucking hell very time an oppo attacks I shit myself it always looks like the possibility of a goal, oh and don't get me started on Kepa did we really spend £76M on this muppet?

 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

15 hours ago, Tomo said:

It depends on the night.

I feel it's a little harsh to say if we play like we did tonight or at home Vs Ajax we would get hammered, while that's technically true I can flip that round and say if we play like we did in Amsterdam and Istanbul we have a chance against almost anyone, which is also true.

The reality is we're an inconsistent team right now and we won't be troubling Liverpool and City in the title race for that reason, however if our 'on' nights can fall on CL ties you just never know, if Tottenham's stagnant side can make the final it's certainly not completely beyond our reach.

Tottenham last season had the one thing we dont this season though, a solid shape and settled back 4 with 2 proper CBs who are leaders and organisers. Alderweireld and Vertonghen (even Sanchez is decent although he has regressed I feel) are very good CBs, aging but very good, but their team shape also helped them and although Moussa Sissoko was a bit of a joke for a few years his physicality and energy in there undoubtedly helped them in that CL run. Yes Rose and Trippier werent brilliant but they were reliable too. Throw the likes of Eriksen, Kane, Lucas Moura (who has surprised me since coming over because I thought he was overrated) and Son in any team that has good defensive stability and you have every chance of beating the likes of City and Ajax of last season. They even had a high chance v Liverpool.

If we can sort out defensive aspects of our game out, we can certainly hurt top teams, I agree but I am not fully convinced with Zouma and Tomori as a pair or as I alluded to in another post, our team shape, we seem to defend well for a few games then look really open the next few. Rudiger has to come back yet though and I feel he is better suited to playing than Zouma. Zouma is good in the air though, probably better than Tomori in that aspect but again Tomori is better with the ball imo and despite not playing as well as he has, I think we should persist with him as theres huge potential there (shocked he wasnt loaned but the Luiz sale made it an absolute certainty he stayed) if he can iron out those wee things. Christensen looks a shadow of the player he was for 5 months under Conte but again Luiz excelled for Conte in a back 3 in his first season back, I said with Luiz then that I felt the system helped him because he had the 2 wide CBs who would engage players more and allow him to step out with the ball with less risk and perhaps the same can be said for Christensen.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Tottenham last season had the one thing we dont this season though, a solid shape and settled back 4 with 2 proper CBs who are leaders and organisers. Alderweireld and Vertonghen (even Sanchez is decent although he has regressed I feel) are very good CBs, aging but very good, but their team shape also helped them and although Moussa Sissoko was a bit of a joke for a few years his physicality and energy in there undoubtedly helped them in that CL run. Yes Rose and Trippier werent brilliant but they were reliable too. Throw the likes of Eriksen, Kane, Lucas Moura (who has surprised me since coming over because I thought he was overrated) and Son in any team that has good defensive stability and you have every chance of beating the likes of City and Ajax of last season. They even had a high chance v Liverpool.

If we can sort out defensive aspects of our game out, we can certainly hurt top teams, I agree but I am not fully convinced with Zouma and Tomori as a pair or as I alluded to in another post, our team shape, we seem to defend well for a few games then look really open the next few. Rudiger has to come back yet though and I feel he is better suited to playing than Zouma. Zouma is good in the air though, probably better than Tomori in that aspect but again Tomori is better with the ball imo and despite not playing as well as he has, I think we should persist with him as theres huge potential there (shocked he wasnt loaned but the Luiz sale made it an absolute certainty he stayed) if he can iron out those wee things. Christensen looks a shadow of the player he was for 5 months under Conte but again Luiz excelled for Conte in a back 3 in his first season back, I said with Luiz then that I felt the system helped him because he had the 2 wide CBs who would engage players more and allow him to step out with the ball with less risk and perhaps the same can be said for Christensen.

That's the thing, i don't think present day versions of Vertonghen and Alderwierld are very good atall, they look like caricatures of their best selves. Rose reliable? His fall from grace has been even worse, he's relegation fighting material at most these days.

Furthermore it wasn't Tottenham's defense that got them to the final, it was being clinical and getting the right breaks at the right time. Liverpool a year back got to the final with Karius in goal (granted they lost it because of him). On our best days i honestly believe we can beat any side, if we get past Lillie then two performances like Istanbul and Amsterdam could be all it takes to make the semi.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

That's the thing, i don't think present day versions of Vertonghen and Alderwierld are very good atall, they look like caricatures of their best selves. Rose reliable? His fall from grace has been even worse, he's relegation fighting material at most these days.

Furthermore it wasn't Tottenham's defense that got them to the final, it was being clinical and getting the right breaks at the right time. Liverpool a year back got to the final with Karius in goal (granted they lost it because of him). On our best days i honestly believe we can beat any side, if we get past Lillie then two performances like Istanbul and Amsterdam could be all it takes to make the semi.

True but they also had a settled team, they didn't get many clean sheets but in key moments in games they remained solid enough to withstand pressure spells, the Man City and Ajax games for instance despite playing or not playing  well in spells of it. That comes from having good players, collective shape and organisation in key moments. Obviously the ideal thing would be for us to be really solid but I understand that with this way of playing, Rudigers injury and as well as arguably having 2 CBs who havent really kicked on in Zouma and Andreas and still not being able to balance Kante in the midfield while keeping Jorginho and Kovacic in, it is hard. I mean when we play bad we cant seem to stop conceding chances far too easily, there was times where even if we didnt play well or were under pressure in a period of a game we had enough about us to be solid and not concede chances.