closed Man Utd 4-0 Chelsea

[Atomiswave 6,117]

14 hours ago, Hutcho said:

 

 

 

Maybe the worst squad currently but one of the most promising going forwards for years.

Pulisic 20
Mount 20
RLC 23
CHO 18
Etc etc

Developing youth takes time. Sure this season may be rough at times but we could be better for it in the long term. I've waited years for someone to give some our players with great potential a chance and now we have so let's see what happens

 

Ohh I agree in that regard.....our youth look good and will only get better. Shame the board cant stack that on top of good additions to level us up though.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,075]

18 hours ago, Antonio8 said:

and who's gonna play as CB? 

This reminds me of the fate of Dujon Sterling.

When Dujon broke into the U18 side as a right back he was an immediate success. Great pace and power allied to solid defending translated into goals, assists and many MoM displays. Sadly, for Dujon, a better RB soon emerged at that level and quickly claimed the first choice label. There was a silver lining for Dujon however, because that RB also turned out to be the best CB in the 18's. This meant Duge sometimes* got games at RB anyway because Reece James was used at CB instead.

Our best CB pairing is Rudi and Reece. The problem for Frank is that Reece is also our best RB. SFL will have to find a short term solution, but the long term answer probably lays with the market.

 

*Only sometimes because the tricky, and lighting fast, Tariq Lamptey also saw action at RB for that U18 generation.

[Superblue 6,372]

17 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

This reminds me of the fate of Dujon Sterling.

When Dujon broke into the U18 side as a right back he was an immediate success. Great pace and power allied to solid defending translated into goals, assists and many MoM displays. Sadly, for Dujon, a better RB soon emerged at that level and quickly claimed the first choice label. There was a silver lining for Dujon however, because that RB also turned out to be the best CB in the 18's. This meant Duge sometimes* got games at RB anyway because Reece James was used at CB instead.

Our best CB pairing is Rudi and Reece. The problem for Frank is that Reece is also our best RB. SFL will have to find a short term solution, but the long term answer probably lays with the market.

*Only sometimes because the tricky, and lighting fast, Tariq Lamptey also saw action at RB for that U18 generation.

At least short term (because the market isn't available most likely until next summer) which do you think is the best option - Reece at right back and more than likely Christensen with Rudiger (unless you think there is a better option than Christensen), or Azpi at right and Reece with Rudiger?

[OhForAGreavsie 6,075]

29 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

At least short term (because the market isn't available most likely until next summer) which do you think is the best option - Reece at right back and more than likely Christensen with Rudiger (unless you think there is a better option than Christensen), or Azpi at right and Reece with Rudiger?

I would go with Reece at right back because Andreas and, perhaps Azpi, are better alternative CBs than anyone is as an alternative RB if Reece is played in the middle. I don't think any of us had many complaints with Dave's performance at CB in a three. How he'd fare in a four is open for debate however. Maybe we need a Jose solution. Dave at RB with orders to stay home, and Reece at CB.

Dave isn't a premium attacking full back anyway, and by staying home he gives protection against the counterattack which we've been struggling with since the start of preseason. Meanwhile Reece at CB looks like a swings and roundabouts situation to me. We gain from his range of passing but lose because he won't often get into high positions where he can deliver crosses. A significant loss because he's the best crosser of the ball in the club.

Even I realise that I may be going a bit overboard about an untried 19-year-old. If anyone leveled that accusation at me I'd have to say it's a reasonable point of view. All I can offer in my defence is that I genuinely believe what I'm saying about the lad.

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Heard Sam Allardyce on the radio this morning and whilst I'm not his biggest fan, I agree with him that Chelsea were very naive when we went 2-0 down. We opened up way too quickly and started trying to chase the game.

I alluded to this very point in a post yesterday but there has to be a lesson learned there for Lampard and the players that in a situation like that, the team needs to regroup and stay compact for 10-15 minutes. 

2-0 is not a game clinching scoreline and all it would have taken would have been a goal a few minutes from time to possibly grab a point. We let United take the game away from us completely in the last half hour and that isn't just tactical or individual mistakes, that's about having the right mentality (and experience after games like yesterday) to know when to dig in, not take risks and contain for a few minutes to stem any flow of momentum the opposition are building up.

Players come and go, squad changes but not gonna lie, it's so infuriating to see that we have gone from a team who defend properly, don't give goals away to one who can't defend at all and commit stupid mistakes all over the pitch. Being defensive solid is the one big aspect that we were great for so long and now, we are defending like clowns and suffering stupid bad/heavy defeats. Since 2018, we have been thrashed 4-1 by Watford, 3-0 & 4-0 by Bournemouth, 6-0 by Man City and 4-0 by Man United. That's just way too many to take in like 2 years and it's not as if we've been playing a squad of U20 players either. It's mostly filled experienced players!

[Superblue 6,372]

3 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I would go with Reece at right back because Andreas and, perhaps Azpi, are better alternative CBs than anyone is as an alternative RB if Reece is played in the middle. I don't think any of us had many complaints with Dave's performance at CB in a three. How he'd fare in a four is open for debate however. Maybe we need a Jose solution. Dave at RB with orders to stay home, and Reece at CB.

Dave isn't a premium attacking full back anyway, and by staying home he gives protection against the counterattack which we've been struggling with since the start of preseason. Meanwhile Reece at CB looks like a swings and roundabouts situation to me. We gain from his range of passing but lose because he won't often get into high positions where he can deliver crosses. A significant loss because he's the best crosser of the ball in the club.

Even I realise that I may be going a bit overboard about an untried 19-year-old. If anyone leveled that accusation at me I'd have to say it's a reasonable point of view. All I can offer in my defence is that I genuinely believe what I'm saying about the lad.

I certainly see where the optimism is coming from. He stood out at youth level and although all I've seen is highlights packages, you only need to see Wigan fan's viewpoint of how good he is.

I would tend to agree with you by the way, I think it's more important that he plays at right back where he can offer an additional attacking outlet. Liverpool and Man City have shown how important the full backs are as a source of chance creation and I think the potential Reece James has in that right back position is too much to not utilise.

I still have faith in Christensen and that Lampard can get the best out of him again by restoring his confidence as a first choice player. He's comfortable on the ball and is deceptively quick also, I feel everything holding him back currently is mental and Lampard needs to bring that belief back out in him that he can be a top, classy defender as the foil to Rudiger who needs to continue to grow into a dominant and leadership role.

Lampard wanting to play the way we did yesterday with a high line and a high press - add Reece James, Rudiger and Kante into that side and I do believe it will make a big difference to how much more solid and successful that can be.

 

[Superblue 6,372]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Players come and go, squad changes but not gonna lie, it's so infuriating to see that we have gone from a team who defend properly, don't give goals away to one who can't defend at all and commit stupid mistakes all over the pitch. Being defensive solid is the one big aspect that we were great for so long and now, we are defending like clowns and suffering stupid bad/heavy defeats. Since 2017, we have been thrashed 4-1 by Watford, 3-0 & 4-0 by Bournemouth, 6-0 by Man City and 4-0 by Man United. That's just way too many to take in like 2 years and it's not as if we've been playing a squad of U20 players either. It's mostly filled experienced players!

Agree, there are always going to be issues with completely changing our playing style but the mentality has to improve with regards to being able to adapt in-game. After losing to City 6-0 we went and held them through 120 minutes in the cup final a week later which is an example that these players are capable of defending properly. However we set up from the start to play in that way, as opposed to changing in-game which does seem to be a problem for us. 

United at home and Spurs away last season were other clear examples, we just didn't get thrashed on the result. We kept playing one way and it was simply playing to the strengths of the opposition leaving us open to get ripped apart.

Liverpool and City don't have all game, every game in complete control. Opposition will get periods of the game where they create chances and gain momentum. In that moment, Liverpool and City are both organised enough to soak up that pressure. It is what we need to learn and quickly and yesterday was a perfect example of this. In the past this would have been where someone like Terry or Lampard would have come into play because they would have made it clear to the team to dig in for 5-10 minutes in order to regain the momentum and composure to our play. If nobody on the pitch is capable of stepping up and doing that, Lampard must make sure from the touchline that message is put across to the team in moments when needed.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,075]

3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Agree, there are always going to be issues with completely changing our playing style but the mentality has to improve with regards to being able to adapt in-game. After losing to City 6-0 we went and held them through 120 minutes in the cup final a week later which is an example that these players are capable of defending properly. However we set up from the start to play in that way, as opposed to changing in-game which does seem to be a problem for us. 

United at home and Spurs away last season were other clear examples, we just didn't get thrashed on the result. We kept playing one way and it was simply playing to the strengths of the opposition leaving us open to get ripped apart.

Liverpool and City don't have all game, every game in complete control. Opposition will get periods of the game where they create chances and gain momentum. In that moment, Liverpool and City are both organised enough to soak up that pressure. It is what we need to learn and quickly and yesterday was a perfect example of this. In the past this would have been where someone like Terry or Lampard would have come into play because they would have made it clear to the team to dig in for 5-10 minutes in order to regain the momentum and composure to our play. If nobody on the pitch is capable of stepping up and doing that, Lampard must make sure from the touchline that message is put across to the team in moments when needed.

Agreed. You can obviously control the game when you have the ball but, as Jose often said, you can also control it when you don't. Something we once excelled at.

I think my all time favourite football statistic was the season where JT and Billy Gallas started 22 matches as our centre-back pairing. In those 22 games we conceded 1 goal. (one!) Chelsea Women's fans celebrate one of our players with the simple chant, Ji So-Yun is unbelievable, but that stat is something truly unbelievable. Opposing managers must have spent the whole week ahead of Chelsea games wondering how on Earth they were going to break us down.

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

Come on guys Jose is most interesting pundit to listen ever. And his knowledge Is phenomenal. And I agree Kante should have started. 

[Tomo 21,751]

18 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Come on guys Jose is most interesting pundit to listen ever. And his knowledge Is phenomenal. And I agree Kante should have started. 

He knows his stuff in general (obviously) but his comments on Mount proves he's learned absolutely nothing from the biggest blunder of his career.

With Lampard's appointment we aren't here for a quick fix, we are trying to build the next generation while playing a fluent expressive style of play, we will have to take the punches and ride it out.

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Agree, there are always going to be issues with completely changing our playing style but the mentality has to improve with regards to being able to adapt in-game. After losing to City 6-0 we went and held them through 120 minutes in the cup final a week later which is an example that these players are capable of defending properly. However we set up from the start to play in that way, as opposed to changing in-game which does seem to be a problem for us. 

United at home and Spurs away last season were other clear examples, we just didn't get thrashed on the result. We kept playing one way and it was simply playing to the strengths of the opposition leaving us open to get ripped apart.

Liverpool and City don't have all game, every game in complete control. Opposition will get periods of the game where they create chances and gain momentum. In that moment, Liverpool and City are both organised enough to soak up that pressure. It is what we need to learn and quickly and yesterday was a perfect example of this. In the past this would have been where someone like Terry or Lampard would have come into play because they would have made it clear to the team to dig in for 5-10 minutes in order to regain the momentum and composure to our play. If nobody on the pitch is capable of stepping up and doing that, Lampard must make sure from the touchline that message is put across to the team in moments when needed.

I don't understand what do you mean by mentality. Lampard instructions were high pressing. If you want to drop deep, you need your manager to scream at everyone or have a gameplan beforehand otherwise all hell will break loose. 

Btw there is a difference between playing in lower line to being forced to defend. 

 

 

[communicate 2,703]

It is funny that people now think United defense is really good. We created 4 good chances against them. I mean Abraham, mount, Barkley and Pedro are not exactly wc. I am not even sure it is better than Everton front line. 

[Romans disciples 26]

Some positive feelings that we controlled the game for periods . Created chances but not desructive in attack.

We will learn and improve. 

 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

With Lampard's appointment we aren't here for a quick fix, we are trying to build the next generation while playing a fluent expressive style of play, we will have to take the punches and ride it out.

Exactly, I don't understand why some act like it's doom and gloom already when we all knew it was going to be an experimental season. No better season to introduce talent than this one, PL + CL football with nothing at stake, all about gaining experience and getting a sniff to what real football looks like. 

I see people asking "Why can't Chelsea nurture talent like Spurs did with Kane, Benfica with Joao Felix? (and there are tons of other examples)" Well I could understand if this was the Chelsea powerhouse of a few years back going for the PL and CL latter stages every season. But now??? This Chelsea is not good enough to win the PL, nevermind the CL. Not because it's filled with dross, but it's going through a transitional period full of inexperienced (but quality) guys that are in the process of learning. 

If this is not the best season to introduce talent, well I guess there never will be one again. Should be a fun ride where Chelsea is going to end up 6th maybe, but who cares really? Who is going to remember this United loss should in 4 years the likes of Pulisic, Mount, Reece James, Hudson-Odoi, Loftus-Cheek (and God help others, too) turn into world class players??? But we'll never know if they are not given chances and I'm sure fans will turn back to this season saying "You remember that season when there was nothing at stake? Why did not they play back then" What will people reply? Because of some losses at the start of the season? 

 

[Laylabelle 9,535]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

He knows his stuff in general (obviously) but his comments on Mount prove he's learned absolutely nothing from the biggest blunder of his career.

With Lampard's appointment we aren't here for a quick fix, we are trying to build the next generation while playing a fluent expressive style of play, we will have to take the punches and ride it out.

That's it. Mistakes are there to be learnt from and hopefully we will. This is why I hope the board for once will show patience with Lampard. They know the situation he's in so can't be trigger happy. Take time to gel. 

Just shame kept hitting the post! 

[steve.crowford 5]

It was awfully! What bets, how long will Lampard as coach?

Bissaka and Maguire as if always playing for MU

 

[Vesper 30,186]

27 minutes ago, steve.crowford said:

It was awfully! What bets, how long will Lampard as coach?

Bissaka and Maguire as if always playing for MU

 

Fuck Manure

I will laugh when Barca pips Real to Neymar and then Florentino The Flaccid, in true Real plastic desperation, pulls both Pogba from the Manc rotters and Eriksen from Spuds

you take Pogba off that team with no replacement and they are arsed

I shit you not

if Pogba goes

this is their ENTIRE MF on the roster

Nemanja Matic   <<<<<<<<<<<not on the verge,he IS washed up
Fred    <<<< has been a massive flop
Scott McTominay    <<<<< complete meh, and TBH he,is the best of this lot and it isnt even close

Juan Mata    <<< on verge of being washed up,complete shit as a CMF now, is only good for 30, or 40 minute AMF spells
Andreas Pereira    <<< shit,and is more a winger than a AMF

 

worst MF of any top 20 team in Europe

combine that with Shaw at LB

that is 4 gaping holes and horrid depth too

[Jase 43,479]