Billy Gilmour

[OhForAGreavsie 6,065]

On 04/06/2021 at 15:52, DH1988 said:

May be an unpopular opinion, but its quite sad to see how he has regressed over the last 6 months or so, maybe a touch longer. Result of not getting regular game time or feeling not valued perhaps. Still got bags of talent, but seriously needs a good loan spell to a footballing side, not a relegation dog fight.

I have an unpopular opinion too. It is that players don't regress. Rather it is easier for commentators to claim this than to recognise that they had initially overestimated the player's development. I don't think I've ever been guilty of blaming regression myself though others may know better and be able to find examples. What people could certainly find in my case are instances of me overrating individual performances or the general level of particular footballers.I have certainly been guilty of overestimating a Billy Gilmour display.

Leaving the ground after the League Cup win against Grimsby I bumped into a couple I sit with when we watch Chelsea Women. All three of us were absolutely buzzing about the way Billy had played. When I later watched the all touches video however, I did not feel his contribution had been as spectacular as it felt on the night. I think that the emotion of a big win, and several good performances, clouded my judgement.

I wonder if emotion also played a part in the reaction to Billy's display against England? I made the mistake of joining a youtube watch along for last night's game and joining in the live chat. For me at least that turns out not to be a good way to actually watch a football match. I therefore viewed an all touches video of Billy this morning and don't feel it lives up to the hype I'm reading today.

Edited June 19, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie

[King Kante 1,643]

3 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I have an unpopular opinion too. It is that players don't regress. Rather it is easier for commentators to claim this than to recognise that they had initially overestimated the player's development. I don't think I've ever been guilty of blaming regression myself though others may know better and be able to find examples. What people could certainly find in my case are instances of me overrating individual performances or the general level of particular footballers.I have certainly been guilty of overestimating a Billy Gilmour display.

Leaving the ground after the League Cup win against Grimsby I bumped into a couple I sit with when we watch Chelsea Women. All three of us were absolutely buzzing about the way Billy had played. When I later watched the all touches video however, I did not feel his contribution had been as spectacular as it felt on the night. I think that the emotion of a big win, and several good performances, clouded my judgement.

I wonder if emotion also played a part in the reaction to Billy's display against England? I made the mistake of joining a youtube watch along for last night's game and joining in the live chat. For me at least that turns out not to be a good way to actually watch a football match. I therefore viewed an all touches video of Billy this morning and don't feel it lives up to the hype I'm reading today.

For sure, the hype is overblown. Imo, I haven't changed my opinion that he is a very promising player, but one that needs minutes, hence a loan away next season would be the best for all parties. Hopefully, we get the club we send him to right i.e. not a Burnley. 

[OneMoSalah 8,885]

3 hours ago, King Kante said:

For sure, the hype is overblown. Imo, I haven't changed my opinion that he is a very promising player, but one that needs minutes, hence a loan away next season would be the best for all parties. Hopefully, we get the club we send him to right i.e. not a Burnley. 

I dont think its as easy as that, no point loaning him it we don’t buy a central midfielder. Would certainly say he’s good enough to get minutes and believe Tuchel will maybe afford him the chance more than last season considering he has to come in and instantly pick a strong team to get us back around the top 4. It depends what set up we play. I mean if we go 433 then theres a definite argument for keeping him unless we buy, if we still play with 2 and get cover for Ngolo, yes loan him. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[King Kante 1,643]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

I dont think its as easy as that, no point loaning him it we don’t buy a central midfielder. Would certainly say he’s good enough to get minutes and believe Tuchel will maybe afford him the chance more than last season considering he has to come in and instantly pick a strong team to get us back around the top 4. It depends what set up we play. I mean if we go 433 then theres a definite argument for keeping him unless we buy, if we still play with 2 and get cover for Ngolo, yes loan him. 

We aren't going to a four, I wish people would stop saying this is even some sort of remote possibility. I say this for two reasons: 

1) We haven't played well in a four since 2015. 

2) We aren't buying Hakimi or looking at that sort of player to then move to a four. 

Well, yes we will need another CM. However, what we don't want to do is have him knocking around the squad not getting any real minutes until he is 22. That is what happened to RLC and what that does is:

A) Create a load of people (fans and pundits) who then say they're better than they are/a great player but have little evidence to prove it. 

The player doesn't develop. 

[Jase 43,479]

25 minutes ago, King Kante said:

We aren't going to a four, I wish people would stop saying this is even some sort of remote possibility. I say this for two reasons: 

1) We haven't played well in a four since 2015. 

2) We aren't buying Hakimi or looking at that sort of player to then move to a four. 

Well, yes we will need another CM. However, what we don't want to do is have him knocking around the squad not getting any real minutes until he is 22. That is what happened to RLC and what that does is:

A) Create a load of people (fans and pundits) who then say they're better than they are/a great player but have little evidence to prove it. 

The player doesn't develop. 

We might not change to a back 4 permanently but I'd be surprised if we don't use the back 4 system (be it 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 etc) from time to time. 

[OneMoSalah 8,885]

13 minutes ago, King Kante said:

We aren't going to a four, I wish people would stop saying this is even some sort of remote possibility. I say this for two reasons: 

1) We haven't played well in a four since 2015. 

2) We aren't buying Hakimi or looking at that sort of player to then move to a four. 

Well, yes we will need another CM. However, what we don't want to do is have him knocking around the squad not getting any real minutes until he is 22. That is what happened to RLC and what that does is:

A) Create a load of people (fans and pundits) who then say they're better than they are/a great player but have little evidence to prove it. 

The player doesn't develop. 

Perhaps we arent going to a 4 a lot but signing Hakimi wouldn’t necessarily rule it out because he can play RB also and people forget this. Plus Tuchel’s even said himself the difference between playing with a back 3 and a back 4 isn’t that much, cant remember the game but even then, look at Italy at the Euros. The LB pushes up so high and one of the CMs tuck in/sit in and Chiellini goes to a left sided CB coming out with the ball. 

I have been saying though previously in the season, the 343, if it aint broke, dont fix it. We will be closer to winning a title with that shape but you need a plan B or C also. I think we will likely remain with a back 3 but even then we can go and play with 3 CMs still. It depends, Conte also did it with Kante Cesc Bakayoko. 

Honestly wouldn’t say he’s not at a good enough level to play here though but realistically, its about playing regularly for his development so I fully agree.

Would say RLC and Gilmour though, its two totally different scenarios. Gilmours situation is maybe potentially closer to Fodens actually than RLC’s depending what happens this summer. People questioned Foden not going on loan or Pep not picking him more frequently for 2/3 seasons then he did and he was the driving force for them. But I see the point also and what I have said there will be wrong if Tuchel doesn't play him.

The loan has to be right. It has to be a decent level in a foreign league or the PL because if you seen him yesterday, he showed he can play against boys like Rice, Phillips, Mount and cope extremely well. On his first international start. Plus his first 2 game v Liverpool and Everton, so it has to be a team who have a go and will not be scared to play.

[NikkiCFC 8,300]

I find funny all this praise for Billy. He was amazing b2b games against Pool and Everton 15 months ago. After that no significant performance. Yesterday he faced under average English midfielders. 

He needs to put regularly good performances and than we can talk. 

[King Kante 1,643]

26 minutes ago, Jas said:

We might not change to a back 4 permanently but I'd be surprised if we don't use the back 4 system (be it 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 etc) from time to time. 

Well for sure, against some teams in the league we can play with only  two players back essentially as teams drop so deep in a low block against us. When I say back 4, I mean lining up with only two CB's and FB's that are instructed not to push up as far. I don't see that happening for a while. 

18 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Perhaps we arent going to a 4 a lot but signing Hakimi wouldn’t necessarily rule it out because he can play RB also and people forget this. Plus Tuchel’s even said himself the difference between playing with a back 3 and a back 4 isn’t that much, cant remember the game but even then, look at Italy at the Euros. The LB pushes up so high and one of the CMs tuck in/sit in and Chiellini goes to a left sided CB coming out with the ball. 

I have been saying though previously in the season, the 343, if it aint broke, dont fix it. We will be closer to winning a title with that shape but you need a plan B or C also. I think we will likely remain with a back 3 but even then we can go and play with 3 CMs still. It depends, Conte also did it with Kante Cesc Bakayoko. 

Honestly wouldn’t say he’s not at a good enough level to play here though but realistically, its about playing regularly for his development so I fully agree.

Would say RLC and Gilmour though, its two totally different scenarios. Gilmours situation is maybe potentially closer to Fodens actually than RLC’s depending what happens this summer. People questioned Foden not going on loan or Pep not picking him more frequently for 2/3 seasons then he did and he was the driving force for them. But I see the point also and what I have said there will be wrong if Tuchel doesn't play him.

The loan has to be right. It has to be a decent level in a foreign league or the PL because if you seen him yesterday, he showed he can play against boys like Rice, Phillips, Mount and cope extremely well. On his first international start. Plus his first 2 game v Liverpool and Everton, so it has to be a team who have a go and will not be scared to play.

I think we're on the same page. I completely agree it has to be the right club and situation. For me personally, I would say Brighton under Potter in the Premier League or a team like Real Sociedad/Real Betis/Villareal (Villareal may be a push) in Spain. 

I completely agree that if his options are: Newcastle/Burnley/some sort of Fat Sam team then he needs to stay at the club. Only one that I may consider that is a little outside of that is Rangers if they get CL. However, with the Scottish Prem being League One level with some of the teams, I wouldn't probably be keen on that unless he really, really wanted it. 

[Jase 43,479]

19 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I find funny all this praise for Billy. He was amazing b2b games against Pool and Everton 15 months ago. After that no significant performance. Yesterday he faced under average English midfielders. 

He needs to put regularly good performances and than we can talk. 

Gilmour got praised because it was his first start for Scotland (IIRC), his first start in a major tournament and a start in a high pressure game. He got praised because he made his mark, he imposed himself playing against a team with better players and in a team where the two best players are the left backs. Sure, we want him to be more consistent but at the same time, it’s worth remembering that he’s still very young and he had a serious injury at the end of the 2019/20 season. Took him awhile to recover from that and after that, he hardly got enough playing time to build any momentum.

[Strike 7,478]

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I find funny all this praise for Billy. He was amazing b2b games against Pool and Everton 15 months ago. After that no significant performance. Yesterday he faced under average English midfielders. 

He needs to put regularly good performances and than we can talk. 

He's a baller though. MOTM in his first FA Cup, Premier League and now Scotland game. He seems to have an appetite to be always involved on the ball.

To put regularly good performances, he needs to get regular games. If Tuchel decides to, he can split the game time between Jorgi and Billy - Billy is ready for the games vs lower Premier League opposition. Only reason for a loan is if we sign a DM - Rice/Tchouameni

[Duppy Conqueror 1,530]

I wouldn't loan him out.the injury he had and Tuchel needing to steady the ship and catch up as much as possible I think were the factors in him not playing enough this last season.he's ahead of the curve,mature beyond his years like Reece is although could argue mental understanding of the game Billy is ahead of RJ as RJ can find himself out of position when defending and his pace helps him recover.Billy is probably the most football mature teenage player we've had since Ray Wilkins. He'll get more time with us next season.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Duppy Conqueror

[Vesper 30,119]

Graeme Souness says national team should be built around Chelsea playmaker for next decade

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/news/graeme-souness-says-national-team-should-be-built-around-Chelsea-playmaker-for-next-decade/

[Vesper 30,119]

14 hours ago, Strike said:

He's a baller though. MOTM in his first FA Cup, Premier League and now Scotland game. He seems to have an appetite to be always involved on the ball.

To put regularly good performances, he needs to get regular games. If Tuchel decides to, he can split the game time between Jorgi and Billy - Billy is ready for the games vs lower Premier League opposition. Only reason for a loan is if we sign a DM - Rice/Tchouameni

or Locatelli

[Johnnyeye 7,501]

Scottish FA have confirmed that Billy Gilmour has tested positive for Covid. Fucking pandemic man

[Jase 43,479]

Crikey!