Super Frank Thread

[NikkiCFC 8,017]

4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

no idea who you are talking about

Pretty sure one is on your block list 

And the other one just posted positive things before the last two games and never says anything negative. 

[Vesper 28,966]

3 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Pretty sure one is on your block list 

I have only 2 on it

no one else every came close to those 2 absolute cunts

not within 10,000 leagues

only argy bargy I got into with others was over politics, which is bound to happen

[Laylabelle 9,369]

Not sure he is so Super anymore... 

[Jase 43,479]

Lampard vows never to quit Chelsea post as he embraces pressure of £200m spend

[Vesper 28,966]

Lampard’s place in Chelsea’s points-per-game table doesn’t explain real issues

https://theathletic.com/2296274/2021/01/02/lampard-points-per-game/

A new year has begun and Frank Lampard is not going to be happy with his position in the table.

Seeing Chelsea occupying fifth place in the Premier League after 16 games is cause enough for concern after a run of one win in the last five matches, but it is his standing in another chart which will make him feel more uncomfortable right now.

Shortly after his side played out a 1-1 draw with Aston Villa, statistics emerged that Lampard shared the same points-per-game ratio (1.70) as one of his many Chelsea predecessors, Andre Villas-Boas. The reason it was such an unflattering comparison is the Portuguese lost his job at Stamford Bridge in 2012 after just nine months in charge.

Indeed a chart began to circulate which demonstrates that, out of all the managers owner Roman Abramovich has had since taking over in 2003, Lampard sits joint-bottom with Villa-Boas with the lowest points-per-game ratio.

In terms of Chelsea managers in the Premier League era, only Ruud Gullit, Ian Porterfield and Glenn Hoddle have a worse return.

For those on social media that like to get #Lampardout trending after each negative result and laboured performance, it is more irrefutable evidence as far as they are concerned that the 42-year-old should be shown the door and replaced by somebody else.

Yet how much credence should be given to such a statistic? Well, it obviously isn’t great and one can safely assume it won’t have gone unnoticed by the hierarchy, although their main priority will be the gap to the top four, which stands at three points at the moment.

But to judge Lampard on this points-per-game ratio table alone would be unfair. The numbers may not look pretty but they don’t tell the full story.

For starters, just look to see whose name sits top of the rankings. When you think of Chelsea’s best managers under Abramovich, the names Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti and Antonio Conte spring to mind. But none of the trio occupy first place. Instead, it’s Avram Grant.

Now, this is no slight on Grant, but his tenure during the 2007-08 season is an example of how the numbers don’t necessarily reflect a manager’s contribution. As Chelsea recovered from the sacking on Mourinho in September 2007, it was the very talented players and strong leaders in the dressing room who did the most to keep things on track, plus the coaching of Steve Clarke. Grant was a safe and solid figurehead to have at the helm on top of all that, particularly in handling the media, yet sources at the time consistently spoke of his limited impact overall.

Put it this way, if he was so instrumental in leading the club to their first-ever Champions League final in 2008, he surely wouldn’t have lost his job that summer, especially as they only lost on penalties to Manchester United.

But like with many Chelsea managers above Lampard’s name on that chart, you can’t compare the quality of squad Grant, or Villas-Boas for that matter, had at their disposal to what the former midfielder has to work with now.

Lampard is trying to get Chelsea back to that level, but as of this moment you don’t see talent to match that of serial winners Petr Cech, John Terry, Didier Drogba and of course Lampard the player in the 2020-21 ranks. They are only four examples. We are talking about some of the greatest players in the club’s history here.

While Conte (Terry was a fringe member of the squad in 2016-17 title-winning season) and Maurizio Sarri didn’t get to benefit from the quartet, they had another modern Chelsea legend in Eden Hazard. The Belgium international left for Real Madrid just before Lampard took over. Christian Pulisic and Hakim Ziyech have shown flashes of the kind of skill their predecessor expressed in abundance, however various injury problems have restricted their time on the pitch.

This leads on to another significant fact. Lampard is the only Chelsea head coach in the list who has ever had to work with the massive disadvantage of a transfer ban.

The punishment was imposed by FIFA in 2019 for breaking rules regarding the acquisition of foreign players under the age of 18, a mess Lampard inherited. Although the club managed to reduce the punishment down from two windows to one, they were unable to get any of his targets — the plan was for Ziyech to arrive 12 months ago for example — in January 2020 either.

So unlike those who went before him, Lampard has had to wait a whole season to start building the squad he wants. Now he did make some changes during his debut campaign but that was by bringing in inexperienced youngsters — a decision which has certainly benefitted Chelsea in the short and long term. Yet one of the negatives associated with youth is they are prone to mistakes and inconsistency.

There has also been the unprecedented impact of COVID-19. There was not only a three-month break in the calendar during the last campaign but its late finish has led to a more condensed fixture list this time around, which has also noticeably hampered other teams — leaders Liverpool, for example, are 13 points worse off than the same stage last season.

Critics will rightly highlight Lampard getting over £200 million of talent being added to the ranks during the last transfer window — the biggest splurge in the club’s history. However, there was no real pre-season for him to work with them, a key facet in any coach’s way of working.

His players have contracted the illness at various times too, most notably Kai Havertz, who has struggled for form since being diagnosed in November.

Now, it is only fair to say that all managers in the Premier League have been negatively affected by COVID-19 and many of them don’t have the long list of internationals at their disposal to cope with it that Lampard does. But we are highlighting what makes Lampard’s situation different from other Chelsea managers, not other Premier League managers. In other words a smaller points return was inevitable.

There is a lot Lampard still has to prove and improve on.

The board will rightly expect a significant upturn in results — qualifying for the Champions League is a must, especially as the finances and prestige of playing in the competition will be needed to continue their ambitious recruitment.

It is worth noting too that Chelsea have never gone more than one season without winning a trophy since Abramovich arrived in west London. How Lampard must rue not winning the FA Cup final last August, for that silverware would have helped ease some of the negative scrutiny he’s subjected to now.

And there will be questions from the powers-that-be, despite the mitigating circumstances, about the disappointing form of Timo Werner and Havertz under Lampard’s watch. He could really do with getting the German pair to shine on a more regular basis.

Should results continue on a downward trend the pressure will mount and talk of another coach arriving at Stamford Bridge increase.

But things can quickly turn around. A win over Manchester City on January 3 and a long unbeaten run, like the one we saw between September-December, will put things in a more positive light again.

The significance of the Chelsea managers table can’t be ignored, but it would be wrong to read it without some perspective.

[NikkiCFC 8,017]

On 30/11/2020 at 4:57 PM, Puliiszola said:

No, the FACT that you went off the face of the earth when we were winning

People always accuse you of things they are doing 

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, Vesper said:

Lampard’s place in Chelsea’s points-per-game table doesn’t explain real issues

https://theathletic.com/2296274/2021/01/02/lampard-points-per-game/

A new year has begun and Frank Lampard is not going to be happy with his position in the table.

Seeing Chelsea occupying fifth place in the Premier League after 16 games is cause enough for concern after a run of one win in the last five matches, but it is his standing in another chart which will make him feel more uncomfortable right now.

Shortly after his side played out a 1-1 draw with Aston Villa, statistics emerged that Lampard shared the same points-per-game ratio (1.70) as one of his many Chelsea predecessors, Andre Villas-Boas. The reason it was such an unflattering comparison is the Portuguese lost his job at Stamford Bridge in 2012 after just nine months in charge.

Indeed a chart began to circulate which demonstrates that, out of all the managers owner Roman Abramovich has had since taking over in 2003, Lampard sits joint-bottom with Villa-Boas with the lowest points-per-game ratio.

In terms of Chelsea managers in the Premier League era, only Ruud Gullit, Ian Porterfield and Glenn Hoddle have a worse return.

For those on social media that like to get #Lampardout trending after each negative result and laboured performance, it is more irrefutable evidence as far as they are concerned that the 42-year-old should be shown the door and replaced by somebody else.

Yet how much credence should be given to such a statistic? Well, it obviously isn’t great and one can safely assume it won’t have gone unnoticed by the hierarchy, although their main priority will be the gap to the top four, which stands at three points at the moment.

But to judge Lampard on this points-per-game ratio table alone would be unfair. The numbers may not look pretty but they don’t tell the full story.

For starters, just look to see whose name sits top of the rankings. When you think of Chelsea’s best managers under Abramovich, the names Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti and Antonio Conte spring to mind. But none of the trio occupy first place. Instead, it’s Avram Grant.

Now, this is no slight on Grant, but his tenure during the 2007-08 season is an example of how the numbers don’t necessarily reflect a manager’s contribution. As Chelsea recovered from the sacking on Mourinho in September 2007, it was the very talented players and strong leaders in the dressing room who did the most to keep things on track, plus the coaching of Steve Clarke. Grant was a safe and solid figurehead to have at the helm on top of all that, particularly in handling the media, yet sources at the time consistently spoke of his limited impact overall.

Put it this way, if he was so instrumental in leading the club to their first-ever Champions League final in 2008, he surely wouldn’t have lost his job that summer, especially as they only lost on penalties to Manchester United.

But like with many Chelsea managers above Lampard’s name on that chart, you can’t compare the quality of squad Grant, or Villas-Boas for that matter, had at their disposal to what the former midfielder has to work with now.

Lampard is trying to get Chelsea back to that level, but as of this moment you don’t see talent to match that of serial winners Petr Cech, John Terry, Didier Drogba and of course Lampard the player in the 2020-21 ranks. They are only four examples. We are talking about some of the greatest players in the club’s history here.

While Conte (Terry was a fringe member of the squad in 2016-17 title-winning season) and Maurizio Sarri didn’t get to benefit from the quartet, they had another modern Chelsea legend in Eden Hazard. The Belgium international left for Real Madrid just before Lampard took over. Christian Pulisic and Hakim Ziyech have shown flashes of the kind of skill their predecessor expressed in abundance, however various injury problems have restricted their time on the pitch.

This leads on to another significant fact. Lampard is the only Chelsea head coach in the list who has ever had to work with the massive disadvantage of a transfer ban.

The punishment was imposed by FIFA in 2019 for breaking rules regarding the acquisition of foreign players under the age of 18, a mess Lampard inherited. Although the club managed to reduce the punishment down from two windows to one, they were unable to get any of his targets — the plan was for Ziyech to arrive 12 months ago for example — in January 2020 either.

So unlike those who went before him, Lampard has had to wait a whole season to start building the squad he wants. Now he did make some changes during his debut campaign but that was by bringing in inexperienced youngsters — a decision which has certainly benefitted Chelsea in the short and long term. Yet one of the negatives associated with youth is they are prone to mistakes and inconsistency.

There has also been the unprecedented impact of COVID-19. There was not only a three-month break in the calendar during the last campaign but its late finish has led to a more condensed fixture list this time around, which has also noticeably hampered other teams — leaders Liverpool, for example, are 13 points worse off than the same stage last season.

Critics will rightly highlight Lampard getting over £200 million of talent being added to the ranks during the last transfer window — the biggest splurge in the club’s history. However, there was no real pre-season for him to work with them, a key facet in any coach’s way of working.

His players have contracted the illness at various times too, most notably Kai Havertz, who has struggled for form since being diagnosed in November.

Now, it is only fair to say that all managers in the Premier League have been negatively affected by COVID-19 and many of them don’t have the long list of internationals at their disposal to cope with it that Lampard does. But we are highlighting what makes Lampard’s situation different from other Chelsea managers, not other Premier League managers. In other words a smaller points return was inevitable.

There is a lot Lampard still has to prove and improve on.

The board will rightly expect a significant upturn in results — qualifying for the Champions League is a must, especially as the finances and prestige of playing in the competition will be needed to continue their ambitious recruitment.

It is worth noting too that Chelsea have never gone more than one season without winning a trophy since Abramovich arrived in west London. How Lampard must rue not winning the FA Cup final last August, for that silverware would have helped ease some of the negative scrutiny he’s subjected to now.

And there will be questions from the powers-that-be, despite the mitigating circumstances, about the disappointing form of Timo Werner and Havertz under Lampard’s watch. He could really do with getting the German pair to shine on a more regular basis.

Should results continue on a downward trend the pressure will mount and talk of another coach arriving at Stamford Bridge increase.

But things can quickly turn around. A win over Manchester City on January 3 and a long unbeaten run, like the one we saw between September-December, will put things in a more positive light again.

The significance of the Chelsea managers table can’t be ignored, but it would be wrong to read it without some perspective.

Saw this yesterday and imagine my shock at seeing The Athletic and Simon Johnson making excuses for Lampard again...

If these journalists want to make excuses for Lampard or try to convince people why he is the right manager for us, then maybe they should address the concerns that we fans have about Lampard because would like to think that they aren't blind and can see the debates people are having. Arguing the PPG is taken out of context or whatever else along the same lines is not going to convince people that Lampard is the right man.

[lucio 5,418]

How can PPG be taken out of context? Lmao .The context is ,you play league games and get 3 for a win and 1 for a draw 

[Magic Lamps 11,667]

On 1.1.2021 at 11:13 PM, Jason said:

Assuming if results don't start improving from this Sunday, then I really wonder what's the tipping point for Roman to pull the trigger. Because right now, we're only 3 points from 3rd (or the Top 4) and Roman as well as the board may think "as long as that goal is still obtainable, we won't pull the trigger" etc. Conte, in his second season, and Sarri didn't get the sack until the end of the season (Sarri left in his case) even though we looked in danger of not finishing in the Top 4 during those seasons as well as Conte checking out and Sarri being clueless.

I think it is the Leicester game. A loss today and a win vs Fulham are expected no matter our form. But Leicester is the kind of game we have been struggling with all season. Teams that are good but slightly worse than us and which we should beat in an open game. There we have underachieved massively. If we beat Leicester convincingly It might be a sign of improvement. If we still look clueless, the board may decide to part ways. 

[Jase 43,479]

Not playing down the impact of COVID-19 of course but...

 

[Milan 17,859]

So you are playing it down?

This is the same like saying 'no offence, but you are a twat'.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Milan said:

So you are playing it down?

This is the same like saying 'no offence, but you are a twat'.

Why are you being so combative today?  

My point is, yeah COVID-19 has had an impact on every one and we know the Havertz situation but he now suddenly talked about other players being asymptomatic, the medical staff etc? Not playing the virus impact down but it will sound a lot less of an excuse if it was also mentioned during our good run of form/results. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,317]

A wise man once said, "It's time to go..."

[1chelsea 864]

Called it already

[Blue Armour 4,300]

He's lost the dressing room. The way the team gave up pressing to let City waltz their way through for the first 2 goals shows his time is up.

Can't see anyway he can turn this around any time soon. 

We are currently heading on the same trajectory that Arterta's Arsenal was. Is the Chelsea board really going to give him that much leeway? 

Can't see them being willing to sacrifice a top 4 spot just to let Lampard learn. Not after investing in the squad like this.

[Laylabelle 9,369]

Its a shame it has gone this way but things aren't changing. Cant see who we can win against and that's worrying. We're on the slide while every team around us isn't. Top 4 hard enough without us playing like this and moving down and down. Swapping places with Arsenal ffs

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Blue Armour said:

He's lost the dressing room. The way the team gave up pressing to let City waltz their way through for the first 2 goals shows his time is up.

Is that the case or are we just a badly coached team? What we're seeing now is no different to some of the shitshow we saw last season, no? 18 months into Lampard's time here and we're still seeing the same BS, just with more than 200 million spent!

[Vesper 28,966]

1 minute ago, Laylabelle said:

Its a shame it has gone this way but things aren't changing. Cant see who we can win against and that's worrying. We're on the slide while every team around us isn't. Top 4 hard enough without us playing like this and moving down and down. Swapping places with Arsenal ffs

can you IMAGINE what it would be like if there was 40,000 fans in SB now?

mediaeval