Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Our players cannot be trusted to carry out man marking successfully. 

Neither is zonally. With man marking, you can at least point the finger at people if they don't do it properly. Zonal marking can be a cheap excuse used to forgo the marking responsibility. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Neither is zonally. With man marking, you can at least point the finger at people if they don't do it properly. Zonal marking can be a cheap excuse used to forgo the marking responsibility. 

And how many top teams do man marking?

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[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

And how many top teams do man marking?

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I don't know. I don't pay close attention to it.

And before you go on a rant at me, no, I am not suggesting how we should approach defending set pieces. 

[killer1257 3,282]

I don't know. I don't pay close attention to it.
And before you go on a rant at me, no, I am not suggesting how we should approach defending set pieces. 

I have seen not one top team that does man marking

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[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

When you have a 6'3 striker marking the goal post and Azpilicueta marking the tallest guy on the pitch, not once, but twice, and both occasions leading to goals, you can only conclude its down to coaching. 

 

Not sure if many of you remember our 2010 title winning season thoroughly, but we were awful in marking set pieces. The very reason why we won the title on the last day of the season, in spite doing the double against United, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal, was down to our poor marking against mid table sides. Ancelotti carried on after Scolari and had us zonal mark in set pieces, when under Mourinho we were very tight in our marking. 

I find it very lazy, zonal marking. 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I have seen not one top team that does man marking

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[killer1257 3,282]

United does zonal marking, Klopp always teaches zonal marking to his teams, Manchester City use zonal marking, so all the modern big teams use zonal marking. Even Conte used zonal marking when he was here

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[Atomiswave 6,117]

39 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

United does zonal marking, Klopp always teaches zonal marking to his teams, Manchester City use zonal marking, so all the modern big teams use zonal marking. Even Conte used zonal marking when he was here

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Zonal is not effective enough, as long as you are on the move then you always have a good chance vs a team that does zonal. Man marking for me is the way.

[Superblue 6,372]

1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

When you have a 6'3 striker marking the goal post and Azpilicueta marking the tallest guy on the pitch, not once, but twice, and both occasions leading to goals, you can only conclude its down to coaching. 

 

Not sure if many of you remember our 2010 title winning season thoroughly, but we were awful in marking set pieces. The very reason why we won the title on the last day of the season, in spite doing the double against United, Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal, was down to our poor marking against mid table sides. Ancelotti carried on after Scolari and had us zonal mark in set pieces, when under Mourinho we were very tight in our marking. 

I find it very lazy, zonal marking. 

The problem is Tammy isn't very good in the air considering his size and height, and ball watches (you can tell that by how many times he's caught offside). He would be easy to lose as an attacker with a little movement.

Rudiger similarly seems to struggle with marking on set pieces and anticipate danger and I'd trust Azpi to be more committed and stronger than Christensen in an aerial dual.

I actually think for West Ham's goal Azpi did pretty well. The header was weak and should have been dealt with by one of Kepa or Tammy.

Back in 2010 we were much better suited to man marking with the players we had who were both strong in the air and kept the right levels of concentration and anticipation to mark players properly. 

We have absolutely no one at present organising that defence on the pitch and taking the responsibility to do so.

[Special Juan 28,095]

Imagine being 6ft 3 and shit in the air, it's like saying a Boeing 777 is shit at flying

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Back in 2010 we were much better suited to man marking with the players we had who were both strong in the air and kept the right levels of concentration and anticipation to mark players properly. 

We have absolutely no one at present organising that defence on the pitch and taking the responsibility to do so.

Right but my point was even with the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Ivanovic, Alex, Ballack, Drogba, etc. We conceded loads of goals under Ancelotti from set pieces given the zonal marking approach, when the players were so used to Mourinho's tight marking tactic. 

The fact this wasn't an issue under Conte or Sarri, along with what I've witnessed this season, has me believing it is more to do with coaching than who we have at our disposal. 

It's virtually every time there's a set piece now, the opposition has a chance at goal. 

[Superblue 6,372]

1 minute ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Right but my point was even with the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Ivanovic, Alex, Ballack, Drogba, etc. We conceded loads of goals under Ancelotti from set pieces given the zonal marking approach, when the players were so used to Mourinho's tight marking tactic. 

The fact this wasn't an issue under Conte or Sarri, along with what I've witnessed this season, has me believing it is more to do with coaching than who we have at our disposal. 

It's virtually every time there's a set piece now, the opposition has a chance at goal. 

Lampard has to find a solution to it. I feel like we've looked susceptible the last couple of years to set pieces but I think it's really come to the fore this season. 

A lot of the time though is the failure to deal with the second ball. That's players not having the right mentality and concentration to anticipate the danger around them.

When our centre backs are amongst the worst culprits for ball watching and a lack of anticipation (and that's not even just reserved for set piece defending), we're in big trouble.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

8 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Right but my point was even with the likes of Terry, Carvalho, Ivanovic, Alex, Ballack, Drogba, etc. We conceded loads of goals under Ancelotti from set pieces given the zonal marking approach, when the players were so used to Mourinho's tight marking tactic. 

The fact this wasn't an issue under Conte or Sarri, along with what I've witnessed this season, has me believing it is more to do with coaching than who we have at our disposal. 

It's virtually every time there's a set piece now, the opposition has a chance at goal. 

It is coaching, there are defences out there that are far inferior but they do the basics right, they are coached well enough. Our lot look like 4 headless chickens.

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

 

[Jase 43,479]

Lampard on the set-piece problems...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/03/frank-lampard-says-chelsea-could-solve-set-piece-problem-by-signing-tall-players

“We’ve looked at set pieces this season,” Chelsea’s manager said. “When we came into the club we looked at the stats from last season. Last season we were bottom of the league defending set plays, in terms of teams getting big chances against us, and second bottom in attacking. We haven’t improved much this year.

“I really don’t like to talk about my own playing days but we didn’t work much at all on set pieces and there were a few reasons, mainly John Terry, Gary Cahill, Didier Drogba, Michael Ballack and [Branislav] Ivanovic. You’d stick it in an area and they would defend it or score goals.

“With Liverpool, I remember a lot of talk about them and set pieces a few seasons ago. They were zonal and conceding a lot. They signed Virgil van Dijk and he heads out everything. There’s a huge relation to personnel and if you don’t have that size, the main thing is trying to compete as hard as you can and making it difficult for other teams to score.

“But I’m not making excuses because we haven’t done that well enough and that has to improve. When you look at who you might bring in with the balance of the squad it is certainly something to take into account.”