Super Frank Thread

[Strike 6,961]

TC being TC. You'd think we are in April going by the reactions here. Its two games into the season!

 

[Jase 43,479]

31 minutes ago, Strike said:

TC being TC. You'd think we are in April going by the reactions here. Its two games into the season!

But it's the second season under the same manager, not a new one. 

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

But it's the second season under the same manager, not a new one. 

We weren’t too bad last season with all things considered right?

 

This season, only 2 matches played, I don’t think it’s a fair sample size to make deep analysis but if you want to, I would like to say we have improved our defense collectively except those individual errors which were random and unpredictable. Offensively yes we looks poorer but spare in mind that we are missing our two major ball carriers in Pulisic and Willian, and the new boys Werner and Havertz still need time to adapt. Personally I think we played pretty well before the red card and arguably we had created more chances in the first half.

[1chelsea 864]

Christensen fucked the game. Zyech, Pulisic and Silva out. His only mistake is his love for Mount. Other than that I dont know why you guys are mad.

The only reason I'm mad is that this team haven't seen the diagonal setup run Timo makes behind the defense and the midfielder who I believe knows Timo is a speed monster don't see reason to play a diagonal pass or a drop ball behind the defense and I don't see why the manager who is out in the touch line can't spot and instruct his side with some of this move. Did any one saw Kane passes to Son yesterday it that simple when you have a player like Timo. [emoji2959]

[Strike 6,961]

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

But it's the second season under the same manager, not a new one. 

Yes, Lampard's setup was conservative but there were a number of average players in the XI and two new attackers who haven't played much together. I'd wait for a larger sample size of games and for players to come back.

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Yes, Lampard's setup was conservative but there were a number of average players in the XI and two new attackers who haven't played much together. I'd wait for a larger sample size of games and for players to come back.

Unpopular opinion, I can even see he has improved his tactical maturity a bit. Instead of going all gung ho in the big matches last season, people might call me crazy, I was kinda happy to see his conservative setup last night.

[Jase 43,479]

26 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

We weren’t too bad last season with all things considered right?

This season, only 2 matches played, I don’t think it’s a fair sample size to make deep analysis but if you want to, I would like to say we have improved our defense collectively except those individual errors which were random and unpredictable. Offensively yes we looks poorer but spare in mind that we are missing our two major ball carriers in Pulisic and Willian, and the new boys Werner and Havertz still need time to adapt. Personally I think we played pretty well before the red card and arguably we had created more chances in the first half.

Despite all the inconsistency and bad results last season, think we all agreed that it was Lampard's first season and that he needed time to implement his ideas, his style of play and all that. We are now in his second season, we should be seeing his ideas already, having that defined style of play, even with all unfavorable circumstances. This season should be a continuation of the work he started, we should not be resetting everything just because it is a new season or we bought new players etc. I posted this earlier...

9 hours ago, Jason said:

It is almost bizarre to see us go from having a defined style of play, an identity to almost nothing in months or a year basically under Lampard. In the first half of last season, we looked exciting and had an identity in terms of how we want to play. We wanted to play on the front foot, press from the front, dominate possession and the opposition. We had the likes of Jorginho, Kante, Mount, Kovacic controlling the midfield and Pulisic, Willian, Abraham, CHO contributing in attack and we looked fluid, threatening and exciting. But somewhere along the way and I do not know if it was because of the pressure from bad results or Lampard's lack of experience, we started to revert to type, to our old selves from years ago with pragmatic football or to a more one dimensional play. In the early months of this year, our attacking player amounted to nothing more than James dumping crosses into the box most of the time. And after the restart, it basically became "give Pulisic the ball and hope for the best!" a la the Hazard days. We basically became a one man team again. We did not play any of the football that we saw in the first few months of the season. Lampard suddenly also started changing the midfield around - Kante going into the lone DM role, Jorginho being ditched (and suddenly being back in the team again) and just have Kovacic and whoever to fill out the midfield roles. What exactly is our style of play going forward? What exactly does Lampard actually want us to play? It is only two games into the season and circumstances may not have been favorable but there does not seem to be a clear identity or style of play that we want to implement. We have looked somewhat lost or caught up between different approaches. If we really want to be successful again and close the gap on Liverpool, Man City and even some others around Europe like Bayern, then we need to have a defined style of play, a clear identity. You look at Liverpool, Man City etc and you can tell and see how they play. They may make tactical tweaks against different teams but they have a defined style of play and they impose that on the opposition. They also have a consistent team selection and players know their role within the team. We do not have that. There are just too many changes and even uncertainty in the team. We need to have that certainty, we need to go back to what Lampard were trying to do at the start of last season and not flip flopping around so much. If not, we are not going to get to where we want to be and whatever grand ideas that Lampard has will just fall to pieces.

 

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Unpopular opinion, I can even see he has improved his tactical maturity a bit. Instead of going all gung ho in the big matches last season, people might call me crazy, I was kinda happy to see his conservative setup last night.

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

[Jase 43,479]

4 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

I think it's because we dont trust our full backs to do the job on their own.

I don't think so. I think we're still stuck with the pragmatic mindset that we used to have. If we actually play proactively and press from the front, we wouldn't be seeing that. How often do you see Man City or Liverpool wide players dropping so deep to defend?

[Puliiszola 519]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

Does FL do it every game? What were our options up front on the wings if we wanted to go toe to toe with Pool. CHO? Tammy? Mount? Kai? 

Last year we played liverpool 4 games, and went toe to toe with them EVERY time. Played an attacking game. DId we have the attacking personnel to give the same output as salah, mane and firmino? 

You would have been the first one condoning FL had we gone all out attack and lost 2-5. 

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

If with the available players we have for this match, we still go out there to do gung ho style, I would call that tactical naive, which was one of Frank’s shortcomings last season. So yes, I’m happy with it and I’m not gonna drag Mou and Conte into the conversation, deep down you know they’re different.

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Does FL do it every game? What were our options up front on the wings if we wanted to go toe to toe with Pool. CHO? Tammy? Mount? Kai? 

Last year we played liverpool 4 games, and went toe to toe with them EVERY time. Played an attacking game. DId we have the attacking personnel to give the same output as salah, mane and firmino? 

No, we did not just blindly play an attacking game against Liverpool last season. We played on the counter attack and showed attacking intent when we did get the ball and apart from Werner and Havertz in yesterday's XI, all the others were the players who played and competed well against them last season. If we were able to do that in several games last season, why couldn't we do that yesterday? We were unlucky to lose to them in the Super Cup and at home in the league. Moreover at one point or another in those games, we had Pulisic/Mount/Pedro on one side and Willian on the other. Yesterday, we had Mount, who is practically like the new Willian, on one side and Werner on the other. Are those options really different from what we had last season? You could also practically put Mount and CHO as the wing options, Havertz as the No.10 and Werner upfront instead.

25 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

You would have been the first one condoning FL had we gone all out attack and lost 2-5.

No one said about anything about going all out attack yesterday. As I have said numerous times, I was okay with the counter attacking approach but not happy with how passive we were and the execution of the plan. We were basically lumping long balls to Havertz for him to win in the air against Van Dijk and hoping Werner did something on the break. Other than that, where was the threat for us? 

[Jase 43,479]

35 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

If with the available players we have for this match, we still go out there to do gung ho style, I would call that tactical naive, which was one of Frank’s shortcomings last season. So yes, I’m happy with it and I’m not gonna drag Mou and Conte into the conversation, deep down you know they’re different.

But will Lampard's style of play be ultimately different from Mourinho or Conte? Who knows...he has practically gone from trying to implement progressive, attacking football this time last year to making us play pragmatic football, as I mentioned above. 

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

But will Lampard's style of play ultimately different from Mourinho or Conte? Who knows...he has practically gone from trying to implement progressive, attacking football this time last year to making us play pragmatic football, as I mentioned above. 

One match mate, you can’t take one match against the champion of last year to draw such conclusion. Especially without our main ball carriers Pulisic and Willian, yes Willian, like it or not despite his inefficiency in the final third he was pretty critical for us to carry the ball forward.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Ryan Fong said:

One match mate, you can’t take one match against the champion of last year to draw such conclusion. Especially without our main ball carriers Pulisic and Willian, yes Willian, like it or not despite his inefficiency in the final third he was pretty critical for us to carry the ball forward.

It's about the bigger picture here. I shared the post with you just now but what has happened to the style of play that Lampard tried to implement this time last season? The one that saw us wanting to play on the front foot, press the opposition, dominate possession and the opposition. We have seemingly moved away from that at the start of the year. 

[killer1257 3,282]

But will Lampard's style of play ultimately different from Mourinho or Conte? Who knows...he has practically gone from trying to implement progressive, attacking football this time last year to making us play pragmatic football, as I mentioned above. 

If we get Declan Rice, we will play very much like Mou and Conte because Rice and Kante will play alongside each other, so two defensive midfielders.



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[Jase 43,479]

Just now, killer1257 said:

If we get Declan Rice, we will play very much like Mou and Conte because Rice and Kante will play alongside each other, so two defensive midfielders.


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Funny thing is, Lampard supposedly doesn't even see Kante as a defensive midfielder.

[Puliiszola 519]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

No, we did not just blindly play an attacking game against Liverpool last season. We played on the counter attack and showed attacking intent when we did get the ball and apart from Werner and Havertz in yesterday's XI, all the others were the players who played and competed well against them last season. If we were able to do that in several games last season, why couldn't we do that yesterday? We were unlucky to lose to them in the Super Cup and at home in the league. Moreover at one point or another in those games, we had Pulisic/Mount/Pedro on one side and Willian on the other. Yesterday, we had Mount, who is practically like the new Willian, on one side and Werner on the other. Are those options really different from what we had last season? You could also practically put Mount and CHO as the wing options, Havertz as the No.10 and Werner upfront instead.

No one said about anything about going all out attack yesterday. As I have said numerous times, I was okay with the counter attacking approach but not happy with how passive we were and the execution of the plan. We were basically lumping long balls to Havertz for him to win in the air against Van Dijk and hoping Werner did something on the break. Other than that, where was the threat for us? 

You and I remember the UEFA super cup and both the league games against Liverpool very differently if you think that we played them on the counter. 

https://www.skysports.com/football/chelsea-vs-liverpool/408033

I dont think a team on the counter can possibly have more possession than the aggressor But we did against pool at bridge

https://www.uefa.com/uefasupercup/match/2025638--liverpool-vs-chelsea/statistics/?iv=true

52% to 48% possession in super cup 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53412782

50 to 50 possession at anfield

So exactly on what basis are you saying that we played on the counter? 

The difference between mount and willian is the ball carrying and the burst of pace. Mount is a brilliant player, but expecting him to do what willian has done is just wrong. Hell, Mount is not even a winger. WIllian's dribbling and burst of pace really set us apart on the counters. Mount was basically played as a 4th CM to give Werner the freedom. Also, werner played a good/great game, but Puli on the wing was different class on the wings. So the gulf in options is massive to what we had last season. 

AS for the last part, agree to disagree. What was Liverpool's threat? What exactly did they do or create in the first half other than the long ball which resulted in the red. It was a cagey half. Where we had the most of oppurtunities - werner 1v1 against fabinho (puli is scoring that btw), werner left footed shot just wide, mount plays Kante in, but he pulled it back (for whatever reason). It was a game plan which was working and working well, until another individual blunder(s) screwed us up.