Super Frank Thread

[Chelsea_firstlove 178]

Mourinho at Bayern vs Red Bull.

Where was Lampard?

"I can see small details. Even the warm-ups. I can see what TV and video don't give me. To see the warm-ups and to see what the players do individually" Mourinho spends winter break scouting RB Leipzig ahead of Champions League clash | Sky Exclusive Interview

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11930459/jose-mourinho-spends-winter-break-scouting-rb-leipzig-ahead-of-champions-league-clash

[communicate 2,703]

On 2/8/2020 at 6:27 AM, Tomo said:

If he was as upset about the prospect of signing Morata as people like to imply then why not? Tammy at that point was in a similar stage of his career as to what Mount and Tomori were this season.

 

Tammy won't survive. You can see that this season tammy can only play 80 minutes, I can't imagine tammy two years younger leading the line for Chelsea. 

[communicate 2,703]

On 2/9/2020 at 0:45 AM, OneMoSalah said:

 

Regarding Morata too, I think he signed him for Juve at his request before he left but obviously Lukaku was his first choice that summer and you can see that at Inter. Morata still confuses me, he was good the majority of the first half of the season, having an effect similarly to what Costa had when Jose first brought him in (albeit different players and styles), his regression here is absolutely baffling. He had good aspects to his game in terms of technical attributes and his ability to combine with others but his mindset was completely wrong after he went on that dip and never has recovered. Not even properly at Atletico.

 

 

I am sorry but Diego Costa was one of the best striker in epl, Morata wasn't even close. Morata problem is very2 simple. He detest physical battle yet epl is a very physical league. 

[milka 3,346]

[Atomiswave 6,072]

On ‎07‎-‎02‎-‎2020 at 11:27 PM, Tomo said:

If he was as upset about the prospect of signing Morata as people like to imply then why not? Tammy at that point was in a similar stage of his career as to what Mount and Tomori were this season.

Also fairly certain Auba would have been signed off on given he was cheaper than Morata.

Which makes what he did all the more unforgivable.

Atleast with Jose's collapse we can put it down to his powers waning, Conte could have easily prevented what happened in his second season just by doing his job.

Sarri took over a squad suited to pragmatic counter and he was tasked with completely overhauling a style of play. As you constantly point out our overall squad in itself is a bit of handicap let alone when you try to introduce a style of play alien to most of them.

The football aesthetically speaking didn't live up to the hype agreed but 3rd and two cup finals was about as good as what could realistically have been achieved under the circumstances.

Sorry mate there is no chance Tammy would have made it, no chance at that stage. We were champions.

Conte could have prevented it, but when you feel let down and so passionate then no wonder he cracked. I agree he shouldnt, but I can also see why he had enough. It looks like nothing has changed either.

We were extremely fortunate to grab 3rd, it was out of this world lucky.

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

We were extremely fortunate to grab 3rd, it was out of this world lucky.

That is a myth.

Our points total last season would have been enough in I think 23 season's out of 26 in PL era. I'd say looking at that we would have been very unlucky to miss out with that tally.

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

Sorry mate there is no chance Tammy would have made it, no chance at that stage. We were champions.

Maybe not on paper, but that was also the case with Fik this season. If he was still so outraged about the prospect of signing Morata then he had nothing to lose by rolling that dice, he could have only won.

[Nicco 927]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

Sorry mate there is no chance Tammy would have made it, no chance at that stage. We were champions.

Conte could have prevented it, but when you feel let down and so passionate then no wonder he cracked. I agree he shouldnt, but I can also see why he had enough. It looks like nothing has changed either.

We were extremely fortunate to grab 3rd, it was out of this world lucky.

Why do people keep saying Conte let us down, yes he let frustration get the best out of him but he didn't give up any more than the players did. He won us the FA Cup despite finishing 5th.

[MoroccanBlue 5,296]

Some of his transfer demands were absurd. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

14 hours ago, Tomo said:

That is a myth.

Our points total last season would have been enough in I think 23 season's out of 26 in PL era. I'd say looking at that we would have been very unlucky to miss out with that tally.

Maybe not on paper, but that was also the case with Fik this season. If he was still so outraged about the prospect of signing Morata then he had nothing to lose by rolling that dice, he could have only won.

We got it cuz utd and spurs and arsenal bottled it big time....and I mean big time. THey simply choked that is no myth. But hey im not complaining, them throwing it to the wind played a part in us getting CL so its all good.

And you cant compare our situtaion now to then. We were champions, we were supposed to go even better, we had no ban etc. Some may not forgive how Conte behaved, many too will not forgive how the board fucked it up badly instead of going for the kill and build a power house up.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

13 hours ago, Nicco said:

Why do people keep saying Conte let us down, yes he let frustration get the best out of him but he didn't give up any more than the players did. He won us the FA Cup despite finishing 5th.

He did let himself down but thats not only on him.....our board was and is the cancer. You cant expect much better cuz they aint footy folks.

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

15 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

Sorry mate there is no chance Tammy would have made it, no chance at that stage. We were champions.

Conte could have prevented it, but when you feel let down and so passionate then no wonder he cracked. I agree he shouldnt, but I can also see why he had enough. It looks like nothing has changed either.

We were extremely fortunate to grab 3rd, it was out of this world lucky.

If I am following correctly, we are on about last season.

I think the majority of the results in the first half of the season gave us as good a chance of getting 4th minimum, we went on like an 18 match unbeaten run although there was obvious weaknesses and signs we could struggle when the goals dried up, which they did. Yes results tailored off but I dont think top 4 was ever ever truely in doubt. Tottenham and Arsenal didnt help themselved either as they had the chances but again I doubted we would of finished outside the top 4. Even with the radical change in style and set up. Plus throw in Hazard on top of that.

Re Tammy, again if I am following correctly, I think Conte had he been around to this season may have used Tammy. I do think the previous 2 years he did on loan was absolutely nevvessary for his development and the right thing to do. Tammy kinda seems like he could of been an ideal CF for Antonio if you ask me, tall, decent aerial ability and pace. Yes his hold up isnt amazing but you can work with it. Look at what Antonio has done to Lukaku's game at Inter. Hes brought out a huge improvement in his movements, combination and hold up play. Lukaku predominantly has always preferred running in behind teams and not being overly involved in the build up. Maybe Conte wouldnt have fancied him but I have a feeling that it isnt necessarily as straight forward as that. He seemed to take a shining to Ruben (injuries and the fact Conte couldnt seem to piece him in one fixed position was maybe a reason why he didnt feature as much) and Nate in his first season. Okay they didnt play every game but Nate especially became a trusted member of the squad although the whole decision to try loan him out to accomodate Drinkwater baffles me, even more so having lost Matic and signed Baka who I never truely expected to be the 'midfield general' many seemed to have him pegged to be. Ruben he tried in various positions in pre season amd I think he played him as a CF in cup games but again, at that stage after his first season, a loan move seemed more logical than being a cup game player and Nate maybe felt the same after the additions so moved to Watford.

I dont think Conte would of neccessarily just went and promoted the likes of Tomori or Mount like Lampard has but again, the whole giving Moses a permanent place in the team and also used Andreas a lot in the 2nd season and Nate in his first, I dont think he would of neccessarily shunned them completely. Maybe I could be wrong but I feel that his trust in Andreas over David who played the best football of his career the previous season was a big sign that if the player was good enough, he would of used them. Conte also promoted and gave Callum his debut which everyone forgets. I think winning the title in his first season, I doubt he expected that to happen, he would of wanted us to compete but we were like 9th the previous season. He worked miracles with half of that team if you ask me. You would probably never have thought Moses, Alonso, Luiz, Cahill, Pedro in those moments would perform as they did.  I mean forget Kante and Matic for a minute in MF, the back 3 was unbelievably solid with 2 of the most average CBs out of the top 4 teams at the time. Moses and Alonso were key parts but arent exactly amazing footballers either, both have huge limitations but they gave that team in that set up a lot and it freed the likes of Pedro and Hazard up in more central areas. Some of the matches that first season the football was great, Everton, City and United games for instance. Winning the league and again failing to build on that team with top quality, like with under Jose, was just as major a factor as him becoming disinterested and kicking up a fuss. This is a guy who left Juve because he felt he couldnt progress them any further due to limitations in the market (although Allegri did and it was a welcomed change for them undoubtedbly as he and Conte are polar opposites in terms of their styles and demeanors) so the club knew whst they were getting when they hired him,  just like rehiring Jose.

[Tomo 21,733]

13 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

We got it cuz utd and spurs and arsenal bottled it big time....and I mean big time. THey simply choked that is no myth. But hey im not complaining, them throwing it to the wind played a part in us getting CL so its all good.

And you cant compare our situtaion now to then. We were champions, we were supposed to go even better, we had no ban etc. Some may not forgive how Conte behaved, many too will not forgive how the board fucked it up badly instead of going for the kill and build a power house up.

By that same logic City were lucky Liverpool bottled it at Old Trafford and Goodison, they're still deserved champions.

The story on the way doesn't matter, the reality is 72 points is usually enough for top 4.

[Tomo 21,733]

13 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

He did let himself down but thats not only on him.....our board was and is the cancer. You cant expect much better cuz they aint footy folks.

The board didn't cover themselves in glory no, but only getting your 2nd/3rd choice signings at a cost of only £200m is not an excuse for losing 7-1 on aggregate to Bournemouth and Watford in a week.

I don't blame him for not retaining the title, however failure to get top 4 is 100% at his door.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

If I am following correctly, we are on about last season.

I think the majority of the results in the first half of the season gave us as good a chance of getting 4th minimum, we went on like an 18 match unbeaten run although there was obvious weaknesses and signs we could struggle when the goals dried up, which they did. Yes results tailored off but I dont think top 4 was ever ever truely in doubt. Tottenham and Arsenal didnt help themselved either as they had the chances but again I doubted we would of finished outside the top 4. Even with the radical change in style and set up. Plus throw in Hazard on top of that.

Re Tammy, again if I am following correctly, I think Conte had he been around to this season may have used Tammy. I do think the previous 2 years he did on loan was absolutely nevvessary for his development and the right thing to do. Tammy kinda seems like he could of been an ideal CF for Antonio if you ask me, tall, decent aerial ability and pace. Yes his hold up isnt amazing but you can work with it. Look at what Antonio has done to Lukaku's game at Inter. Hes brought out a huge improvement in his movements, combination and hold up play. Lukaku predominantly has always preferred running in behind teams and not being overly involved in the build up. Maybe Conte wouldnt have fancied him but I have a feeling that it isnt necessarily as straight forward as that. He seemed to take a shining to Ruben (injuries and the fact Conte couldnt seem to piece him in one fixed position was maybe a reason why he didnt feature as much) and Nate in his first season. Okay they didnt play every game but Nate especially became a trusted member of the squad although the whole decision to try loan him out to accomodate Drinkwater baffles me, even more so having lost Matic and signed Baka who I never truely expected to be the 'midfield general' many seemed to have him pegged to be. Ruben he tried in various positions in pre season amd I think he played him as a CF in cup games but again, at that stage after his first season, a loan move seemed more logical than being a cup game player and Nate maybe felt the same after the additions so moved to Watford.

I dont think Conte would of neccessarily just went and promoted the likes of Tomori or Mount like Lampard has but again, the whole giving Moses a permanent place in the team and also used Andreas a lot in the 2nd season and Nate in his first, I dont think he would of neccessarily shunned them completely. Maybe I could be wrong but I feel that his trust in Andreas over David who played the best football of his career the previous season was a big sign that if the player was good enough, he would of used them. Conte also promoted and gave Callum his debut which everyone forgets. I think winning the title in his first season, I doubt he expected that to happen, he would of wanted us to compete but we were like 9th the previous season. He worked miracles with half of that team if you ask me. You would probably never have thought Moses, Alonso, Luiz, Cahill, Pedro in those moments would perform as they did.  I mean forget Kante and Matic for a minute in MF, the back 3 was unbelievably solid with 2 of the most average CBs out of the top 4 teams at the time. Moses and Alonso were key parts but arent exactly amazing footballers either, both have huge limitations but they gave that team in that set up a lot and it freed the likes of Pedro and Hazard up in more central areas. Some of the matches that first season the football was great, Everton, City and United games for instance. Winning the league and again failing to build on that team with top quality, like with under Jose, was just as major a factor as him becoming disinterested and kicking up a fuss. This is a guy who left Juve because he felt he couldnt progress them any further due to limitations in the market (although Allegri did and it was a welcomed change for them undoubtedbly as he and Conte are polar opposites in terms of their styles and demeanors) so the club knew whst they were getting when they hired him,  just like rehiring Jose.

Cant disagree mate....good points. Conte was amazing for us, the fans very fast took to him, I really feel we missed a big manager with Conte. Look at his Inter, totally transformed them and are head in the League and with better GD.

50 minutes ago, Tomo said:

The board didn't cover themselves in glory no, but only getting your 2nd/3rd choice signings at a cost of only £200m is not an excuse for losing 7-1 on aggregate to Bournemouth and Watford in a week.

I don't blame him for not retaining the title, however failure to get top 4 is 100% at his door.

Yup that was horrible, but no more than what we saw under sarri. I agree we should have gotten top 4 but sadly at that time it was all too clear he was a goner and the players knew it.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

59 minutes ago, Tomo said:

By that same logic City were lucky Liverpool bottled it at Old Trafford and Goodison, they're still deserved champions.

The story on the way doesn't matter, the reality is 72 points is usually enough for top 4.

The others blew it, arsenal were well ahead if im not wrong with only 8games left? I might be wrong but I remember not many saw us get top 4 at that point. Arsenal needed just a win to get CL, spurs another point and we were out....and all this after they blew it. We were fortunate in the end is all I say mate.

[ZAPHOD2319 4,477]

I never buy that other teams tanked. It can often throw off a team's focus when others are going through a tough stretch. Chelsea earned 4th, they stayed the path when other teams crumbled. 4th was not awarded to us, we earned it.

[Tomo 21,733]

41 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

The others blew it, arsenal were well ahead if im not wrong with only 8games left? I might be wrong but I remember not many saw us get top 4 at that point. Arsenal needed just a win to get CL, spurs another point and we were out....and all this after they blew it. We were fortunate in the end is all I say mate.

You can look at every victory any teams ever had like that if you pushed hard enough, they all rely on other teams being not good enough to some extent.

If Arsenal kicked on from their invincibles we don't win back to back titles, possibly not even one, but they didn't so it doesn't matter.

The reality is we done enough and Arsenal didn't, you bang on about them"fucking up" but we had ourselves enough of a buffer by going unbeaten until November. We fully deserved to finish top four and most season's we would have with that tally.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

35 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

I never buy that other teams tanked. It can often throw off a team's focus when others are going through a tough stretch. Chelsea earned 4th, they stayed the path when other teams crumbled. 4th was not awarded to us, we earned it.

Luck still plays a part, they crumbled at the last min and we didnt fuck up as much. earned yes, but still fortunate.