Jack Grealish

[Hutcho 8,443]

The wankfest over Grealish makes the Mount bashing/writing off even worse.
 Yes Jack is clearly better now but lets he hasn't always been this good, when Grealish was the age Mount is now, he scored 5 goals in 31 Championship games (and had a further two Champo season's where he never scored more than 6 the latter of which Mount himself outscored him), the year before (at the age Mount was last season to which he scored a matchwinning goal to help us get CL) he was a squad player at one of the worst PL teams of all time. Oh and just over a year ago he claimed the record for longest personal PL run without being on the winning side.

The whole thing that is has to be one or the other or a direct comparisons is embarrassing in itself. Grealish should have played for England but instead of kalvin Phillips not instead of mount.

Its just pure shite driven by idiots who call themselves fans. Mount is a kid who's improving but will make errors and needs people to get behind him rather than bash him non stop as if he's supposed to be the finished article at his age.

Grealish is hitting his peak age for being a footballer and Mount has had 1 full season in the prem and is 4 years younger. Completely different situations.

[King Kante 1,500]

20 minutes ago, Tomo said:

The wankfest over Grealish makes the Mount bashing/writing off even worse.

 Yes Jack is clearly better now but lets he hasn't always been this good, when Grealish was the age Mount is now, he scored 5 goals in 31 Championship games (and had a further two Champo season's where he never scored more than 6 the latter of which Mount himself outscored him), the year before (at the age Mount was last season to which he scored a matchwinning goal to help us get CL) he was a squad player at one of the worst PL teams of all time. Oh and just over a year ago he claimed the record for longest personal PL run without being on the winning side.

The Mount criticism around here is crazy, I truly am unable to comprehend it. However, it should be remembered that half of those doing it are probably the same lot that thought selling KdB for £18m was a good idea due to him having an attitude problem and being lazy. 

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

The Mount criticism around here is crazy, I truly am unable to comprehend it. However, it should be remembered that half of those doing it are probably the same lot that thought selling KdB for £18m was a good idea due to him having an attitude problem and being lazy. 

It's not even the criticsm that annoys me but the sheer bitterness displayed to one of our own is something else, even Real fans give more leeway to their own products. It's not even like he's up himself either, he's one of the most genuine guys in football who gives his all for this club. He's literally done nothing to deserve what he's getting.

It's honestly getting close to the point i'd back him if he does a Lampard (to West Ham fans) on us.

[NikkiCFC 8,039]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

The wankfest over Grealish makes the Mount bashing/writing off even worse.

 Yes Jack is clearly better now 

First of all, I thought people not rating Mount is small group but in the last couple of days I saw it was trending on Twitter and such a mainstream thing now. After England games.

If Jack is clearly better now why are you not as a England fan upset that Mount starts over him? l do not really care but I want to believe that Southgate is trying options in League of Nations but imagine outrage if Mount plays on EURO?

I dont think people hate Mount but have problem with him starting here and for England because there are way superior players around.

Havertz here and Grealish/Maddison for England. And since he is for some unknown reason playing as a winger you can add Pulisic, Ziyech, Sancho and Sterling. He cannot be compered to any of these players. It is senior ENG team not u21.

I do not see problem with people not liking this because really is mind boggling.

If I support a team that has just Mount and RLC for one position I would be happy to start Mason. All the hate he gets is because of his two managers who pick him over superior players.

Look at last 3 games we played. Spurs he was horrid (RLC against Brighton level), CP did not play at all we won 4:0 and last game again invisible as always when he plays winger. Over CHO and Pulisic had to change his best side?!

Now when Ziyech is back I finally expect to see Mount getting treatment he deserves. Next 6 games before another int. break I can see him starting in Russia and a couple of cameos from the bench and that is it.

If he starts just 3 games of these 6 I would have to question who gave that pro license to Frank.

And can you see Mason doing in 3 or 4 years what Grealish is doing now? I cannot because he does not have that dribbling, leadership skills etc...

3 hours ago, Hutcho said:

The whole thing that is has to be one or the other or a direct comparisons is embarrassing in itself. Grealish should have played for England but instead of kalvin Phillips not instead of mount.

 

If I am England fan I would want to see this: 

              Grealish

       Rice   Henderson

Or:

         Grealish  Maddison

                  Rice

Wingers Sancho and Sterling ofc.

3 hours ago, King Kante said:

The Mount criticism around here is crazy, I truly am unable to comprehend it. However, it should be remembered that half of those doing it are probably the same lot that thought selling KdB for £18m was a good idea due to him having an attitude problem and being lazy. 

Not the same at all. KDB did not play because of Oscar. And btw people compare Oscar to Mount but Oscar at the same age as Mount scored 5 CL goals, two of them against Juventus with Buffon and nutmeg Pirlo. Had 12 goals and 12 assists overall.

Now Mount playing for Chelsea means one of Puli, Hakim or Havertz not playing so it is similar to KDB situation because he is blocking better players. 

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Amazing player. Should play for much bigger team.

Mount father retweeting this tweet was embarrassing. They are team mates, and Jack never got the chance because he played just 90mins in his career for England. In fact, he is worth Mount, Barkley and 30m at the moment.

Also UTD was stupid not to spend Sancho money on him.

Couldnt disagree more. Grealish is one of the most overrated players in the league. Fancy stuff here and there but no discipline off the pitch. I wish Utd had spent thatmoney on him cos everyone would then see him as the average player he is. There is a reason why he is rotting away his best years at a relegation fodder club. Current purple patch wont change that.

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

Weird how people continue to think Grealish will be just as effective at CM/CAM as he is at LW. 

[OneMoSalah 8,783]

16 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Couldnt disagree more. Grealish is one of the most overrated players in the league. Fancy stuff here and there but no discipline off the pitch. I wish Utd had spent thatmoney on him cos everyone would then see him as the average player he is. There is a reason why he is rotting away his best years at a relegation fodder club. Current purple patch wont change that.

Maybe most overrated is a bit harsh. He is good to a standard but at a top team he would be a bit out of his depth, he holds onto the ball too long which Graeme Souness pointed out last season and that does make me wonder if he could go from a Villa to a top 4 team with no sort of club in between to improve at again. Like Souness had pointed out, if your holding onto the ball for too long, can you see the bigger picture? Is he good enough to play these passes to others in better positions which might not happen as much at a Villa but still? Yes he gets a lot of fouls but look at the difference between say an Alexis Sanchez at Arsenal, Luis Suarez at Liverpool or Eden Hazard when he was here getting fouled a lot - they were definitely able to pop it off and play these passes when they could despite being fouled a lot also where as Grealish is probably more just fouled because he tries to do it all himself and doesn't look for the passes into better positions like the better players to. I know those 3 were all world class probably but there's countless of others who will win a lot of fouls but nobody questions them holding onto the ball for too long as they will create opportunities/find others in better positions. I do think he is able to buy fouls to relieve the pressure for his team at times too which is an underrated skill but still think he would be out of his depth at a top 4/6 club. Decision making is usually the difference between the decent players and the top players among playing with pressure. That's why Ross has significantly regressed and while he may still have a decent career and that, will never ever be the player he was when he broke in at Everton.  

Okay Grealish would play with better players but at United he doesn't start. At City no chance. At Liverpool no. Here? No. Spurs? No. An Everton or someone he would maybe be a decent player for but again if you could say at the start of the summer, James Rodriguez on arguably a free - depending how accurate these reports are about it basically being a free are true or not - or for 20m compared to Jack Grealish for 60-80m? Only one winner. Every day of the week. 

United would rather of spent the money on Sancho as well which would sum everything up about him for me, I think if they were willing to sign Dan James from the Championship but not take Grealish from a PL club, it speaks volumes. Not that Dan James is a top player or what not no chance but I think they must have had huge reservations about Grealish for that cash where as Dan James was effectively not expected to do anything and was arguably their best player in the first 4 months of last season.  

24 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Weird how people continue to think Grealish will be just as effective at CM/CAM as he is at LW. 

He is defos a winger. I really don't see him playing centrally to the effect he does out wide. Maybe as a 10 he could do a job eventually but the centre of the pitch is more crowded and he still holds it for too long at times, okay he will beat people, still get fouled and score the odd wonder goal but until he manages to learn to release the ball quicker, he will never hit the next level. There is usually more space out wide, particularly as teams will set up playing deep and narrow. He is more suited out there. He is more likely to be effective isolating a fullback and beating him or coming inside and shooting from the side rather than starting centrally, trying to find space between the lines and playing a key pass or making an assist. 

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

 

Quote

If I support a team that has just Mount and RLC for one position I would be happy to start Mason. All the hate he gets is because of his two managers who pick him over superior players.

If that's what's they believe they should target the "hate" at the managers. I'm frustrated Kante still plays unconditionally whenever fit, but I've never let it seep over into bitterness of the guy himself and my frustrations with that is always targeted at the appropriate person, Frank.

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

First of all, I thought people not rating Mount is small group but in the last couple of days I saw it was trending on Twitter and such a mainstream thing now. After England games.

If Jack is clearly better now why are you not as a England fan upset that Mount starts over him? 

I don't particularly have any great passion for England despite being English, and I only ever watch the games if it's a tournament or one of ours is starting but from a Chelsea perspective I've wanted us to go down the route of two 8s and no not to shoehorn Mount in (if we sign a better/more suited player or Gallagher gazumps him then fine) the reasons are these.

1. I started to really like that system when City played it and got a 100 point title season out of it and I think the extra attacking threat gives you a serious advantage, my like for it grew when Mount/Barkley played it together last year with good results.

2. I do feel Mount's ( likewise Gallaghers) skillset can compliment our other more naturally gifted attackers similar to the way Pedro's did with all the superstars around him at Barcelona (I personally think his similarity to the Spaniard from a tactical use perspective is the reason Lampard preferred Willian as the experienced head in the team compared to Conte/Sarri who liked Pedro more). Pretty much all great teams have a Mount/Pedro type in it. Arsenal's last great team had Ljungberg, Liverpool have Henderson, our Conte title team had Pedro himself, Bayern's treble winning side had Perisic, United had Fletcher. Players to do the hard yards so the superstars can reserve for energy.

3. It opens up space for the likes of Gallagher, Anjorin to break through and also gives RLC an (re)opening to aim for.

4. The pivot (seems to be that or 433 the long term route Frank goes down) is yesterday's formation.

Regarding the question about the level I see him hitting, do I see him say single handedly winning us a title like Hazard did in 2015? No. Can I see him as part of a title winning side similar to how Pedro was? Absolutely and if it he can hit levels like prime Pedro I won't be complaining.

[NikkiCFC 8,039]

8 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

 he holds onto the ball too long which Graeme Souness pointed out last season and that does make me wonder if he could go from a Villa to a top 4 team with no sort of club in between to improve at again. Like Souness had pointed out, if your holding onto the ball for too long, can you see the bigger picture? Is he good enough to play these passes to others in better positions which might not happen as much at a Villa but still? 

Did you watched Villa:Liverpool game? He had 3 assists and made two sitters for Ross who missed them. This is 5 clear chances in just one game against best team in the country. Not sure about before but he maybe improved in this area.

It was world class. Why we have to compare him to James? Maybe two best players in the league so far. One is playing RW other LW but both are more AM for me.

[OneMoSalah 8,783]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Did you watched Villa:Liverpool game? He had 3 assists and made two sitters for Ross who missed them. This is 5 clear chances in just one game against best team in the country. Not sure about before but he maybe improved in this area.

It was world class. Why we have to compare him to James? Maybe two best players in the league so far. One is playing RW other LW but both are more AM for me.

I think the Liverpool game is a certain one off game. I don't think it will happen to that extent again. No doubt Villa were superb and Grealish had 2 goals 3 assists but I don't think thats 1 a fair barometer for what he should be doing every game and 2 realistic either because he has decision making flaws in his game. 

James probably head and shoulders been the best player in the PL so far after these 5 games along with Harry Kane and Calvert-Lewin. The way your talking about Grealish is why I have compared him to James.

Yes Grealish has started well, I did see the Leicester game also and at times he's frustrating because he does something good but then holds onto it for another however many touches or feels the need to go and beat another player when he could just play a pass earlier to someone in space. This is why I feel he wouldn't be suited to a top 4 club and also probably why Villa only scored 41 goals last season because his play isn't actually that creative at times (okay he isn't necessarily their only issue but he is their go to man). Its just endless slaloms of dribbles and attacks fizzle out because teams can just regroup or the opposition will see a player in acres of space and pick him up because they know the pass wont go/foul Grealish/take the ball of him when he runs into trouble.

Like the need to dribble needlessly defeats the purpose, its like Pogba at United, if its when under pressure or to take someone out the match in a 1 v 1, yes by all means do it but if your just constantly running into a crowded area of the pitch like Grealish seems to do attracting challenges, getting it taken off you or even if not losing it, not seeing the movements off the ball into these areas or spaces that the initial dribbles maybe opened up for team mates what's the point? How does that benefit a team? He's not releasing it enough or even aware by the looks of it at times. That's where he needs to learn and progress and it doesn't look like Dean Smith is going to be the man to turn around and say it because it very much looks like Jack your our main man do as you please, which is great when your winning but if results aren't going your way, its tougher. Villa fans obviously would disagree, I think there's also a reason why Southgate is reluctant to use him in the England team despite the fact he had decent stats (as posted down there last season). 

He's definitely more like a highlight reels player. His dribbles look good when they come off but you don't always get to the see the guys who are free that he doesn't pass to half the time or even when you do, he seems to neglect them to try and take another one on. In the Leicester game at times you seen him doing it but not often enough. And that indicates to me there is something missing in his make up to be a top top player. Dribbling wise at times he is top yes he can ghost past players etc but he doesn't tend to follow it up at times with the correct decision. There was an excellent opportunity for a 3 on 2 for Villa v Leicester and I think he just ends up dribbling the ball out of play.

I don't think your going to see him top that Liverpool performance this season. He is at a decent level, definitely not a top 4 starter player because he doesn't seem to let the ball go quick enough but think its far too easy to get excited about these sort of players who have the team built around them, lets not forget Villa narrowly avoided the drop last season and wouldn't have said Grealish impressed me much up to the project restart either as a lot of his play was just dribbling, losing the ball, dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, as if he struggles to understand that while dribbling is good its a bit pointless if you can't do anything with it or utilize the spaces it can open up by dragging players out of position by getting tackled or not releasing the ball. 

To put into context against some of the other top 4 clubs wingers last season this is his stats but it doesn't tell the full story: 

Jack Grealish - 36 games, 8 goals, 6 assists, 8 big chances created

Willian - 36 games, 9 goals, 7 assists, 12 big chances created. 

Christian Pulisic  - 25 games, 9 goals, 4 assists, 6 big chances created, 4 through balls completed. 

Raheem Sterling - 33 games, 20 goals, 1 assist, 9 big chances created. 

Marcus Rashford (I know some games as a CF) - 31 games, 17 goals, 7 assists, 9 big chances created.

Anthony Martial (I know some games as a CF also) - 32 games, 17 goals, 6 assists, 8 big chances created. 

He may have better statistics in some areas but they all have much much better decision making. Even Willian. I mean 12 big chances created last season surprised me. Not even gonna put Salah and Mane's stats in there because it is depressing to see that they probably both scored over 20 goals each. 

I do wonder what Grealish could do if he add this sort of decision making, Pochettino getting him a few seasons ago could have been the real making of him. Right now he isn't starting top 4 standard, or if he is, on the bench. Even then 70-80m for a bench player is questionable. 

 

 

[King Kante 1,500]

15 hours ago, Tomo said:

 

If that's what's they believe they should target the "hate" at the managers. I'm frustrated Kante still plays unconditionally whenever fit, but I've never let it seep over into bitterness of the guy himself and my frustrations with that is always targeted at the appropriate person, Frank.

I don't particularly have any great passion for England despite being English, and I only ever watch the games if it's a tournament or one of ours is starting but from a Chelsea perspective I've wanted us to go down the route of two 8s and no not to shoehorn Mount in (if we sign a better/more suited player or Gallagher gazumps him then fine) the reasons are these.

1. I started to really like that system when City played it and got a 100 point title season out of it and I think the extra attacking threat gives you a serious advantage, my like for it grew when Mount/Barkley played it together last year with good results.

2. I do feel Mount's ( likewise Gallaghers) skillset can compliment our other more naturally gifted attackers similar to the way Pedro's did with all the superstars around him at Barcelona (I personally think his similarity to the Spaniard from a tactical use perspective is the reason Lampard preferred Willian as the experienced head in the team compared to Conte/Sarri who liked Pedro more). Pretty much all great teams have a Mount/Pedro type in it. Arsenal's last great team had Ljungberg, Liverpool have Henderson, our Conte title team had Pedro himself, Bayern's treble winning side had Perisic, United had Fletcher. Players to do the hard yards so the superstars can reserve for energy.

3. It opens up space for the likes of Gallagher, Anjorin to break through and also gives RLC an (re)opening to aim for.

4. The pivot (seems to be that or 433 the long term route Frank goes down) is yesterday's formation.

Regarding the question about the level I see him hitting, do I see him say single handedly winning us a title like Hazard did in 2015? No. Can I see him as part of a title winning side similar to how Pedro was? Absolutely and if it he can hit levels like prime Pedro I won't be complaining.

Thanks, do not need to write a long reply now. 

Further, another thing with Mount is that he appears to have an incredible work ethic like SFL had. Therefore, whereas other players at a similar age may be better, like SFL I can see him improving his game beyond his natural ability. Like SFL this will also take time. People seem to forget that SFL didn't become an elite player until he was around 24-25, Mount is still 3-4 years off that. 

[NikkiCFC 8,039]

 

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

 No one is crazy enough to pay that kind of money or even close to it. 

[killer1257 3,282]

[emoji38] No one is crazy enough to pay that kind of money or even close to it. 

I can see Man United spending that much money for him if they do not land Sancho.



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[Jase 43,479]

Just now, killer1257 said:

I can see Man United spending that much money for him if they do not land Sancho.

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"Idiots" not included in my previous post.  

[NikkiCFC 8,039]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

 No one is crazy enough to pay that kind of money or even close to it. 

100m for Jack have more sense than 90m for Maguire tbh

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, NikkiCFC said:

100m for Jack have more sense than 90m for Maguire tbh

But on its own, he's not worth that money.

[NikkiCFC 8,039]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

But on its own, he's not worth that money.

None of +100m transfers paid of lately. Hazard, Griezmann, Dembele, Coutinho, Felix... Maybe Felix in the future...