Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

Quote from the shed end that sums up what I want to say better than I explain.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But you have to change your mind as the facts change. So i have to ask some of the doubters - how can you persist with the same criticisms when, one by one, they've been answered, to varying degrees? here are a few:

1. Sarri stubborn on team selection: see others' stats above on RLC and CHO. Whether it was fan pressure that did it or not is irrelevant  -  the stubbornness argument no longer holds true. 

2. We always lose when we concede first: ahem Cardiff away, Burnley at home, United away, Frankfurt away... did i miss any? ok all but one ended in draws (again, did i miss some?) but still a hell of an improvement on what was going on in our dark patch.

3. No team spirit: see 2.

4. Lack of imagination on subs: when was the last time we saw Kovacic for Barkley or vice versa (and this ties in with one)?

5. Always play worse in the second half: last two matches the exact opposite.

6. boring football - ok this is somewhat subjective, but i think it's unfair. While we have lacked consistency, there have been some great performances with top quality football - off the top of my head - Watford second half, belly of the Frankfurt game, Tottenham at home, West Ham at home, City final.... 

As i said, you are entitled to think Sarri is not the coach for us. But i don't think it can any longer be based on any of the above. Kudos to abramovich (not THE abramovich, or at least i don't think so) for basically acknowledging this and giving credit where due. And he may well yet be right to still be sceptical. We "ins" could easily be wrong come next season and should be ready to change our minds too. But for now - the table doesn't lie (solskjaer said so and it's hardly in his interest to say it), and there's no point rationalising it with "it's only because man u, tottenham etc were crap".  1. they're probably not that crap (one is in CL semi); 2. so what (great even!) if they are."

I agree with all this, I will even add I hope his backed well in the summer so that he has no excuses come next season. Get him a quality LB, CF, CB and RW and maybe another CM then we can talk. Jorginho will only get better after a year in the EPL. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

Top 4 and a trophy was always the goal. 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

Quote from the shed end that sums up what I want to say better than I explain.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But you have to change your mind as the facts change. So i have to ask some of the doubters - how can you persist with the same criticisms when, one by one, they've been answered, to varying degrees? here are a few:

1. Sarri stubborn on team selection: see others' stats above on RLC and CHO. Whether it was fan pressure that did it or not is irrelevant  -  the stubbornness argument no longer holds true. 

2. We always lose when we concede first: ahem Cardiff away, Burnley at home, United away, Frankfurt away... did i miss any? ok all but one ended in draws (again, did i miss some?) but still a hell of an improvement on what was going on in our dark patch.

3. No team spirit: see 2.

4. Lack of imagination on subs: when was the last time we saw Kovacic for Barkley or vice versa (and this ties in with one)?

5. Always play worse in the second half: last two matches the exact opposite.

6. boring football - ok this is somewhat subjective, but i think it's unfair. While we have lacked consistency, there have been some great performances with top quality football - off the top of my head - Watford second half, belly of the Frankfurt game, Tottenham at home, West Ham at home, City final.... 

As i said, you are entitled to think Sarri is not the coach for us. But i don't think it can any longer be based on any of the above. Kudos to abramovich (not THE abramovich, or at least i don't think so) for basically acknowledging this and giving credit where due. And he may well yet be right to still be sceptical. We "ins" could easily be wrong come next season and should be ready to change our minds too. But for now - the table doesn't lie (solskjaer said so and it's hardly in his interest to say it), and there's no point rationalising it with "it's only because man u, tottenham etc were crap".  1. they're probably not that crap (one is in CL semi); 2. so what (great even!) if they are."

Very much agree with this. 

Been a Sarri supporter on this forum, but after the Cardiff match I was fuming thinking there is no way he'd change for a bit. As said in your post, the past months have shown a change. 

Back him in the summer and see how we look next season after he gets a full pre season with Chelsea and already with a one year PL experience. 

And frankly can any name a top manager that would take over here on a limited transfer budget and no Eden Hazard??? Bet that now it's more like the board praying Sarri won't leave, rather than the vice versa. 

[Laylabelle 9,384]

23 minutes ago, Mana said:

Even though we secured top 4, I still want that EL trophy. These players better be hungry for it.

Yep hoping so especially if we come into the final against Arsenal. Winning it against them be even better. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

Winning the EL Trophy would keep our record of averaging a trophy every season in the Roman era alive! 

[Jase 43,479]

5 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

And frankly can any name a top manager that would take over here on a limited transfer budget and no Eden Hazard??? Bet that now it's more like the board praying Sarri won't leave, rather than the vice versa. 

Okay, there may be tough circumstances coming for us but you made it sound like this would be the worst job to take up. There are some things that a manager can work with for starters. It just depends whether they want to...

[Jase 43,479]

10 hours ago, Tomo said:

Quote from the shed end that sums up what I want to say better than I explain.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But you have to change your mind as the facts change. So i have to ask some of the doubters - how can you persist with the same criticisms when, one by one, they've been answered, to varying degrees? here are a few:

1. Sarri stubborn on team selection: see others' stats above on RLC and CHO. Whether it was fan pressure that did it or not is irrelevant  -  the stubbornness argument no longer holds true. 

2. We always lose when we concede first: ahem Cardiff away, Burnley at home, United away, Frankfurt away... did i miss any? ok all but one ended in draws (again, did i miss some?) but still a hell of an improvement on what was going on in our dark patch.

3. No team spirit: see 2.

4. Lack of imagination on subs: when was the last time we saw Kovacic for Barkley or vice versa (and this ties in with one)?

5. Always play worse in the second half: last two matches the exact opposite.

6. boring football - ok this is somewhat subjective, but i think it's unfair. While we have lacked consistency, there have been some great performances with top quality football - off the top of my head - Watford second half, belly of the Frankfurt game, Tottenham at home, West Ham at home, City final.... 

As i said, you are entitled to think Sarri is not the coach for us. But i don't think it can any longer be based on any of the above. Kudos to abramovich (not THE abramovich, or at least i don't think so) for basically acknowledging this and giving credit where due. And he may well yet be right to still be sceptical. We "ins" could easily be wrong come next season and should be ready to change our minds too. But for now - the table doesn't lie (solskjaer said so and it's hardly in his interest to say it), and there's no point rationalising it with "it's only because man u, tottenham etc were crap".  1. they're probably not that crap (one is in CL semi); 2. so what (great even!) if they are."

Your two u-turns is hilarious, Tomo. 

[Tomo 21,733]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Your two u-turns is hilarious, Tomo. 

1. I never fully switched to "out", I was concerned about a few things I saw in January/February.

2. As I've said before, it's fine to change your opinion based on new information, if hypothetically he stayed on and won the league with Loftus Cheek scoring 20 goals and Reece James winning YPOTY, would you still stubbornly bang the narrative that he's a shit manager who doesn't play youth?

[Laylabelle 9,384]

Still have doubts he'll last next season transfer ban or not. A lot needs to be changed. Can't have another season playing at the pace and way we have. Too slow and too dire 

Be interesting to see what the window brings. If we have one and if we do hopefully it won't be a waste of time again. 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

2. As I've said before, it's fine to change your opinion based on new information, if hypothetically he stayed on and won the league with Loftus Cheek scoring 20 goals and Reece James winning YPOTY, would you still stubbornly bang the narrative that he's a shit manager who doesn't play youth?

1. I'll believe it when I see he starts to play the youth consistently and I'm not talking just Loftus-Cheek and CHO. As I said in another thread, given Sarri has a fixed idea on players in his system, does he think the likes of James, Mount, Abraham etc fit what he wants? Or are we just gonna waste all that talent? If his comments about Kovacic and Higuain are anything to go by, it doesn't fill me with a great confidence.

2. Since some like to say "trust the process", I'll see how things progress, how we improve to get to that stage. After all, you have people not impressed with our two recent league titles despite being the most consistent bunch of the lot. 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

Regardless of this season and how it finishes up with europa league and the final game in the league I do hope that if Sarri is kept on he will get a bit of a clean slate so to speak from the fans for when the next season comes along. Lots to be disappointed about over certain seasons in the last few seasons but theres always been plenty of optimism come pre-season so why cant it be the same again? If we get the transfer ban lifted for this summer at least then I would like to think we would get a few top players in and really look to kick on. Even if Hazard were to leave. I think with CL football in the bag it will give us a much better chance to go for better standards of players if the ban is lifted.  

[Tomo 21,733]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yep, while I was happy we won the title under Conte, I wasn’t stupid to see there are huge cracks in that team that was waiting to explode. FA Cup Final v. Arsenal was a huge sign that everyone should have noticed. But nope, I remember people’s heads were buried in the sand.

As for Sarri, the same thing applies here. Top 4 and EL finish? Great! But that doesn’t mean the cracks aren’t there and it won’t spread further next season. Remember, we only secured top 4 because of the huge bottlejobs of Arsenal and United last weekend. We at LAST didn’t bottle against Watford after x amount of times this season.

The squad needs a major clear out and Sarri needs to go himself if he cannot motivate and innovate. I look at Liverpool’s fight against Barca tonight. Would this shitehouse team give the same fight?

Since the start of a 20 team PL, 71 points has been enough for top 4 on 20 occasions out of 23 (we could make 74 points which would have been enough 22/23). It's easy to say we are here because of United and Arsenal bottling it, but i can flip it around and say we were only run close by them because both had a 3 month spell of title winning form.

Had we got top 4 with 59 points then yes we did get very fortunate and have other teams to thank for allowing it to happen, however we are on a very healthy total relative to a top 4 challenge and it's very unfair to say other teams are the only reason we're here.

[ulsterchelsea 3,221]

5 minutes ago, Mana said:

Sorry, but after Liverpool last night it got me really pissed off.

The fight and hunger Liverpool showed to get to that final without Salah and Firmino...it just pisses me off when I look at bloody Chelsea and the primadonnas.

No fight. No hunger. Losing 4-0 to Bournemouth, 6-0 to City, 1-0 to Everton, 2-2 Burnley etc. Will this team show any hunger to win the EL? I doubt it. We only made it this far because we were playing piss easy teams.

It's a disgrace. How far we have fallen. We are like now near the bottom of Mount Everest when we were near the top 6 years ago.

The board, the players, Sarri...ALL of them are a disgrace.

We had squad that did this year in year out. Problem is that every time we got success the board decided rather than building on it, that we should pinch penny's because we were already good enough. We did that so many times that we have completely diluted the winners/fighters and probably the DNA of those squads so much is unrecognisable. Shame!

[Laylabelle 9,384]

2 hours ago, Mana said:

Sorry, but after Liverpool last night it got me really pissed off.

The fight and hunger Liverpool showed to get to that final without Salah and Firmino...it just pisses me off when I look at bloody Chelsea and the primadonnas.

No fight. No hunger. Losing 4-0 to Bournemouth, 6-0 to City, 1-0 to Everton, 2-2 Burnley etc. Will this team show any hunger to win the EL? I doubt it. We only made it this far because we were playing piss easy teams.

It's a disgrace. How far we have fallen. We are like now near the bottom of Mount Everest when we were near the top 6 years ago.

The board, the players, Sarri...ALL of them are a disgrace.

That's it. So many times this season all to play for still 0-0 after half time and it's just all crap. No fight or desire just fall apart. 

Chance to with a trophy and be in a final but expect us to come out with a whimper tbh

[Tomo 21,733]

2 hours ago, Mana said:

Sorry, but after Liverpool last night it got me really pissed off.

The fight and hunger Liverpool showed to get to that final without Salah and Firmino...it just pisses me off when I look at bloody Chelsea and the primadonnas.

No fight. No hunger. Losing 4-0 to Bournemouth, 6-0 to City, 1-0 to Everton, 2-2 Burnley etc. Will this team show any hunger to win the EL? I doubt it. We only made it this far because we were playing piss easy teams.

It's a disgrace. How far we have fallen. We are like now near the bottom of Mount Everest when we were near the top 6 years ago.

The board, the players, Sarri...ALL of them are a disgrace.

We did fight against Barcelona last season, up until Messi's second at the Nou Camp we were looking the better team over the two legs.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

4 hours ago, Mana said:

Sorry, but after Liverpool last night it got me really pissed off.

The fight and hunger Liverpool showed to get to that final without Salah and Firmino...it just pisses me off when I look at bloody Chelsea and the primadonnas.

No fight. No hunger. Losing 4-0 to Bournemouth, 6-0 to City, 1-0 to Everton, 2-2 Burnley etc. Will this team show any hunger to win the EL? I doubt it. We only made it this far because we were playing piss easy teams.

It's a disgrace. How far we have fallen. We are like now near the bottom of Mount Everest when we were near the top 6 years ago.

The board, the players, Sarri...ALL of them are a disgrace.

RA needs to sell and us to start fresh. As long as you have the likes of Marina we will be also rans.

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

We did fight against Barcelona last season, up until Messi's second at the Nou Camp we were looking the better team over the two legs.

That was under Conte, a manager that is so superior to Sarri its unreal. A tactician, a motivator......Sarri is not even good enough to be his pupil. We really could have built something special with Conte, sadly we keep fucking up and are our own worst enemy.

[Tomo 21,733]

22 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

RA needs to sell and us to start fresh. As long as you have the likes of Marina we will be also rans.

That was under Conte, a manager that is so superior to Sarri its unreal. A tactician, a motivator......Sarri is not even good enough to be his pupil. We really could have built something special with Conte, sadly we keep fucking up and are our own worst enemy.

We also shown fight against City under Sarri twice out of three.

I'm not saying we are as good as Liverpool right now that would be lunacy, but the base of this squad have won two league titles under extreme pressure, an FA Cup, a league cup with a tough run got to another final with a tough run and may win a Europa. You don't gain that type of return lacking fight.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

Also came back from a goal and arguably should of won against a team from Germany that many hyped up about.