Mason Mount

[Hutcho 8,443]

So can we really blame Kova and Jorgi for no progressive passes forward?
I mean Jorginho played for Napoli and they played most beautiful footy in Europe.
Mount best position is LCM in 4-3-3.
What can he offer in the final 3rd?
His last 44 games he played for Chelsea he scored 4 goals. DDG howler, against WBA great strike but again GK should have saved that easily, Wolves free kick (Alonso also does this) and nice goal against Everton.
You compere him to Willian but I think he is even more frustrating. Just last 7 days: two sitters missed against Barnsley, and last night missed penalty and that easy pass he fucked for Werner.
So this is 4 possible goals and if you miss one or two it is ok maybe but he fucked up all 4 times.

I think that's a bit unfair.

Last season in the prem he scored 7 assisted 5.
Willian was 9 and 7. Pulisic 9 and 4 (1k less minutes) But somewhat expected given where he plays.

The players he played in front of:

Kova 1 and 3.
Jorginho 4 and 2
Kante 3 and 0

So for a 21 year old who played all over I don't think that's bad in his first season in the prem at all.

[BigMabz 61]

If I remember rightly Frank was 23 when he came to Chelsea from West Ham. It took him a couple of years to really kick on and score double digit premier league goals. If Mason keeps up this level of work he will start to kick on, just like Frank but in a different way. One thing, it is hard to coach work rate and Mason has that which is why he will be a special player for the blues and most likely why Frank loves him. I do however think that once we get Pullisic and Ziyech back that Mount might be most effective as an LCM. Could you imagine the midfield engine with Kante and Mount in the middle of the park. Thats got work rate written all over it. 

[communicate 2,703]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:26 PM, Jason said:

 

That imo is bad analysis. There is no requirement for a no 10 to ask for the ball. On 2nd frame, if the ball can go to azpi it was 4vs 3 at the back. 

[Hutcho 8,443]

That imo is bad analysis. There is no requirement for a no 10 to ask for the ball. On 2nd frame, if the ball can go to azpi it was 4vs 3 at the back. 

I agree with that. Big problem we had is that oli was isolated all game so I don't think the problem was mount being too high up the pitch.

I do agree he is more suited to a deeper role than a number 10 though obviously

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, communicate said:

There is no requirement for a no 10 to ask for the ball.

[ahmedou 189]

Watch out, he'll choose 8 as his jersey #, wait and see 

[OneMoSalah 8,885]

6 minutes ago, ahmedou said:

Watch out, he'll choose 8 as his jersey #, wait and see 

Pretty sure you can't play with two different numbers in one season? Plus Barkley had already played and wore 8? Might be wrong but pretty sure he can't change it to 8 now as its been used and hes already been registered as wearing 19? 

[OneMoSalah 8,885]

On 30/09/2020 at 3:55 PM, kellzfresh said:

I actually think mount would be good in the No. 6. He is a runner, tackler, energetic and a lot of midfielders have had his traits and gone on to become great footballers. But he's not a no. 10 and Lampard has to realize this sooner.

Lacks the tactical discipline to play as a defensive midfielder. That's why he is a 8 or a 10 for me. Think as well, like Kante, if you just ask him to play in front of the defence you do take away his ability to break away and get further up the pitch.

Regarding that tweet as well with the different screenshots, yes and no partly on him partly on the others not playing higher. There is no need for Kovacic and Jorginho to both be so deep. Even if we are playing 4231 there but again, you've got the ball, your under no pressure, the CBs are both there, your outnumbering them 3 to 2 if their strikers push up.

The way I see it is:

Jorginho should be the deepest when we have it (position hes in in both photos) because he is arguably the most comfortable on the ball and can play through the lines from that sort of position or switch it as well as pick the ball up from the CBs if they are under pressure. Kovacic can carry the ball really well so for me should be taking the ball further up/looking to break into those spaces and drive the team forward in these situations. Mount can drop in there but not always necessarily have to if the ball can be carried by another MF player such as a Kovacic or even a Kante and then he is able to try find other spaces or get in the box.

There's no doubt it could be worked on but if he comes into there in the first one he's surrounded by 3 Tottenham players in close proximity and then the other 2 aren't a million miles away. Plus your taking him further away from the goal minimising his affect on the game even more. Okay he gets the ball but what does he do with it there realistically? The first photo they have the numerical advantage in that situation, that's why they are set up like that, its a small area, you can beat the first man or set yourself to play away from them but probably 9/10 times your probably going to be forced to go backwards or lose the ball trying something you'd see Messi do or Eden do or Neymar do etc. As mentioned, if it were a player like Eden, the odds would change for instance but again, you probably wouldn't see teams trying to play through their midfield there and most would go wider to where the space is. The space is there with Azpi and then you can possibly create the chance for a 2 v 1 situation on Regulion. 

Really the issue for me is Kovacic not going deciding to be more progressive and try pass to Callum, Azpi or even carry it forward himself in the first picture because he can take players on and carries the ball very well as we seen last season and in bits with Sarri. The second image is more applicable as an issue for Mason though for his actual positioning or even Giroud there, one of them gets in that space and receives the ball, their MF isn't an issue. Or even if Jorginho finds Giroud which I think is possible there surely? Really where Mount's standing is ideal for them because they know they wont try to play through that gap to get to him. He's basically hiding from the ball there because they've shut that pass off. Even with Werner as well we can't get him into the play because they've shut that pass off and if it was switched out there Aurier will not be far away either as he will be tucked in on that side as it looks like they've got a back 3 of Tanganga, Dier and Alderweireld visible in that photo. The most logical thing to do there is probably to go to Giroud who can play it to Azpi and again you get the opportunity to create a 2 v 1 on Regulion. Again. And if one of the CBs (Dier I think?) follow Giroud and he gets rolled, then you've taken someone out of position and are running at their backline. Maybe thats what happened I can't find an actual clip of it anywhere though or a replay to watch it. 

For me, the first photo Kovacic is capable of playing that out to Callum's feet who has a few metres away from the fullback. Or Azpilicueta if he wants to be a bit safer. Or taking it forward himself 10-15 yards. In the second image Jorginho can surely find Giroud there? Who in turn could find Mason as he looked pretty close to him and could surely make a movement to get it or go to Azpi or Jorgi could lift it to Azpilicueta in the firstplace. Or again go a bit more progressive and look to try get Callum in behind their fullback? Both have the ability and passing ranges to do these passes. 

This could all be a load of shite in someone else's opinion but thats just the way I see it. Spurs wanted us to try these passes through their midfield, into a position where they have the numerical advantage when they sat off us and could the break on us as we'd have too many players up the pitch. Its typical Jose Mourinho. Their 352 set up they matched our CBs with two strikers, they outnumbered us in defence 3 against our 1 upfront and in midfield they also matched us up, having a holding player who could mark that space a 10 would play in and then two players to the sides of him who would match up Jorginho and Kovacic who didn't really venture forward too much. I mean they probably wanted Jorginho to have the ball and try find people like Mason in these central areas as it would allow them to break on us.

Remember when we drew with Arsenal years ago when Jose came back and he said something along the lines of "we controlled them/the game" because they couldn't get the ball to the likes of Ozil, Sanchez etc. He basically did the exact same against us at times. Packed midfield, make us go wide as opposed to playing more centrally, cross it, 3 big CBs, a GK who's good at claiming crosses. First half even then we dominated but never really threatened them enough. So it was very much the same. 

 

Also apologies for not putting this post in same one as last one. Didn't see tweet link in here to after but felt the need to reply haha.  

[kellzfresh 7,229]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Lacks the tactical discipline to play as a defensive midfielder. That's why he is a 8 or a 10 for me. Think as well, like Kante, if you just ask him to play in front of the defence you do take away his ability to break away and get further up the pitch.

Regarding that tweet as well with the different screenshots, yes and no partly on him partly on the others not playing higher. There is no need for Kovacic and Jorginho to both be so deep. Even if we are playing 4231 there but again, you've got the ball, your under no pressure, the CBs are both there, your outnumbering them 3 to 2 if their strikers push up.

The way I see it is:

Jorginho should be the deepest when we have it (position hes in in both photos) because he is arguably the most comfortable on the ball and can play through the lines from that sort of position or switch it as well as pick the ball up from the CBs if they are under pressure. Kovacic can carry the ball really well so for me should be taking the ball further up/looking to break into those spaces and drive the team forward in these situations. Mount can drop in there but not always necessarily have to if the ball can be carried by another MF player such as a Kovacic or even a Kante and then he is able to try find other spaces or get in the box.

There's no doubt it could be worked on but if he comes into there in the first one he's surrounded by 3 Tottenham players in close proximity and then the other 2 aren't a million miles away. Plus your taking him further away from the goal minimising his affect on the game even more. Okay he gets the ball but what does he do with it there realistically? The first photo they have the numerical advantage in that situation, that's why they are set up like that, its a small area, you can beat the first man or set yourself to play away from them but probably 9/10 times your probably going to be forced to go backwards or lose the ball trying something you'd see Messi do or Eden do or Neymar do etc. As mentioned, if it were a player like Eden, the odds would change for instance but again, you probably wouldn't see teams trying to play through their midfield there and most would go wider to where the space is. The space is there with Azpi and then you can possibly create the chance for a 2 v 1 situation on Regulion. 

Really the issue for me is Kovacic not going deciding to be more progressive and try pass to Callum, Azpi or even carry it forward himself in the first picture because he can take players on and carries the ball very well as we seen last season and in bits with Sarri. The second image is more applicable as an issue for Mason though for his actual positioning or even Giroud there, one of them gets in that space and receives the ball, their MF isn't an issue. Or even if Jorginho finds Giroud which I think is possible there surely? Really where Mount's standing is ideal for them because they know they wont try to play through that gap to get to him. He's basically hiding from the ball there because they've shut that pass off. Even with Werner as well we can't get him into the play because they've shut that pass off and if it was switched out there Aurier will not be far away either as he will be tucked in on that side as it looks like they've got a back 3 of Tanganga, Dier and Alderweireld visible in that photo. The most logical thing to do there is probably to go to Giroud who can play it to Azpi and again you get the opportunity to create a 2 v 1 on Regulion. Again. And if one of the CBs (Dier I think?) follow Giroud and he gets rolled, then you've taken someone out of position and are running at their backline. Maybe thats what happened I can't find an actual clip of it anywhere though or a replay to watch it. 

For me, the first photo Kovacic is capable of playing that out to Callum's feet who has a few metres away from the fullback. Or Azpilicueta if he wants to be a bit safer. Or taking it forward himself 10-15 yards. In the second image Jorginho can surely find Giroud there? Who in turn could find Mason as he looked pretty close to him and could surely make a movement to get it or go to Azpi or Jorgi could lift it to Azpilicueta in the firstplace. Or again go a bit more progressive and look to try get Callum in behind their fullback? Both have the ability and passing ranges to do these passes. 

This could all be a load of shite in someone else's opinion but thats just the way I see it. Spurs wanted us to try these passes through their midfield, into a position where they have the numerical advantage when they sat off us and could the break on us as we'd have too many players up the pitch. Its typical Jose Mourinho. Their 352 set up they matched our CBs with two strikers, they outnumbered us in defence 3 against our 1 upfront and in midfield they also matched us up, having a holding player who could mark that space a 10 would play in and then two players to the sides of him who would match up Jorginho and Kovacic who didn't really venture forward too much. I mean they probably wanted Jorginho to have the ball and try find people like Mason in these central areas as it would allow them to break on us.

Remember when we drew with Arsenal years ago when Jose came back and he said something along the lines of "we controlled them/the game" because they couldn't get the ball to the likes of Ozil, Sanchez etc. He basically did the exact same against us at times. Packed midfield, make us go wide as opposed to playing more centrally, cross it, 3 big CBs, a GK who's good at claiming crosses. First half even then we dominated but never really threatened them enough. So it was very much the same. 

 

Also apologies for not putting this post in same one as last one. Didn't see tweet link in here to after but felt the need to reply haha.  

Maybe I got my numbering wrong, but when I said he's a No. 6, I meant Mount is a box to box midfielder. Not defensive sitting midfielder. Taking mount deeper away from the goal will not weaken his game, I think it plays to his strengths. He does not have a keen eye for a defense splitting pass, so why should he play in Havertz position when we have better? And even against Westbrom he was almost man of the match because of his second half performance when Kovacic was removed and Mount had to play the box to box role beside Kante. That is Mounts true position imo.

Yes Mourinho's tactics played a big part in our lack of spaces. But if we played the right players in their right positions we could have overcome that. Do not underestimate the importance of intelligent players who know how to find spaces between the lines. They positionally disrupt defences with their passing and positional sense. 

The problem of Kovacic and his lack of forward progression I have spoken about it before here and I think Mount should take his position on the team. Theres no point of having all the dribbling if you cant use it to progress the team up the pitch. Mount at least can make things happen when he's deeper while I cant say the same about Kovacic.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

Mason did not play and our passing was suddenly so crisp, clean and fluent. Not that it bc of him missing but We didn’t miss him a bit

[The Skipper 20,609]

1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

Mason did not play and our passing was suddenly so crisp, clean and fluent. Not that it bc of him missing but We didn’t miss him a bit

Yeah I feel in games like this where we're clearly gonna dominate possession, he might not be as needed. 

Would still at some point like to see a midfield three of Havertz Mount & Kanté however. 

[Last Sicarius 610]

Mount goal.
https://streamable.com/666k1k

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

7 minutes ago, Last Sicarius said:

Mount goal.
https://streamable.com/666k1k

lucky deflection but at least he saw the chacne given by Mignolets terrible positioning.

arguably englands biggest win in the open era too lol

 

[Rapkun 668]

It's funny seeing the hate he gets from both Chelsea and England fans, yet both managers select him on a regular basis and he keeps delivering.

[killer1257 3,282]

It's funny seeing the hate he gets from both Chelsea and England fans, yet both managers select him on a regular basis and he keeps delivering.

Just like Oscar and Willian.

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