🇪🇸 Álvaro Morata

[Vesper 30,184]

2 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

I was talking for this season. And what does these goals tell you about their role in team?

Ronaldo wasnt striker and he still scored alot. Lamps and Yaya scored 20 goals once in season from midfield. 

I mean if you watch matches of Firmino, Dybala, Griezmann vs Kane, Morata, Lukaku, Suarez,...you would know their differences by now. 

Ronaldo DID play at pure striker sometimes. This enrire convo is well past being deep in the weeds. I am noy going to start specify each and every potential tactical postion that a player could possibly end up playing when discussing a target. I often do eleborate on players like de Jong (who plays all over MF and even CB) but it gets pedantic to go through every option in terms of positional, formational play if I or others simply mean to get a player who would play in the middle of our front three.

[El P. 1,354]

I agree with BlueLyon. Salah is more of a striker in Liverpool than Firmino, he gets more chances than Brasilian. Unlike Morata who gets most of the chances in our team.

For same reason you should compare Morata to Cristiano Ronaldo (LW) and not to Mandžukić. Or to Reals' Cristiano Ronaldo, and not to Benzema, who played supporting role for CR, even if he plays at central forward position.

[Dazzy_Vance 454]

2 hours ago, El P. said:

I agree with BlueLyon. Salah is more of a striker in Liverpool than Firmino, he gets more chances than Brasilian. Unlike Morata who gets most of the chances in our team.

For same reason you should compare Morata to Cristiano Ronaldo (LW) and not to Mandžukić. Or to Reals' Cristiano Ronaldo, and not to Benzema, who played supporting role for CR, even if he plays at central forward position.

This. Salah plays more advanced than Firmino despite Firmino being played centrally. Salah is more of a traditional striker in Liverpool’s system than Firmino is. Same goes with Benz and Ronaldo.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

38 minutes ago, Dazzy_Vance said:

This. Salah plays more advanced than Firmino despite Firmino being played centrally. Salah is more of a traditional striker in Liverpool’s system than Firmino is. Same goes with Benz and Ronaldo.

 

3 hours ago, El P. said:

I agree with BlueLyon. Salah is more of a striker in Liverpool than Firmino, he gets more chances than Brasilian. Unlike Morata who gets most of the chances in our team.

For same reason you should compare Morata to Cristiano Ronaldo (LW) and not to Mandžukić. Or to Reals' Cristiano Ronaldo, and not to Benzema, who played supporting role for CR, even if he plays at central forward position.

Salah is a wide forward. Firmino a central striker (who was converted from a 10), Ronaldo was a wide forward at Real (now best to think of him as a 9 at Juventus I would say), Benzema a striker. Yes they may play more advanced the wide forwards as opposed to the 9s in those teams but when you consider their goal scoring records it's not hard to see why. But it doesn't/didn't make them strikers... Don't see what the fuss is about, when I'm comparing Morata or Giroud I'm comparing them to number 9s in other teams, Kane, Firmino, Lacazette, Aubamayang, Gabriel Jesus, Aguero etc, not Salah, Mane, Son, Sterling, Sane... in the past Hazard has been playing as a left winger and the most advanced player in a lot of our games but hardly makes him a number 9 either did it? Playing more advanced based on average positions or heat maps or whatever means fuck all. If a full backs got a high average position it doesn't make him a winger or a number 10 does it? Or if a CB has a higher average position it doesn't make him a CM??? 

And Morata gets the most chances in our team? Seriously? I think its fair to say there's a bigger spread than your making out. Alot of the play is through our wide players coming inside, trying to play through the middle rather than going outside and looking to cross early, where Morata would get more chances (or even Giroud look at that goal tonight for instance, these guys are good in the air, in the penalty box). Morata has much much more involvement coming to the ball, affecting the game than affecting the game by running in behind centre backs etc but a lot of that's due to the fact the team plays through Hazard and Willian, always short into feet looking for little combinations. I reckon Morata touches the ball the least amount of times for an outfield player in our team (probably least amount of times in the box on average out of a lot of the big teams too - again reckon it's the teams willingness to look for Hazard or Willian first), I'd be surprised If Kepa isn't close sometimes too.

Regarding chances/shots etc: Morata in the PL averages 2.6 shots per game, Hazard averages 2.7 shots per game, Willian averages 1.6 shots per game, Pedro averages 2 shots per game. Hazard has 7 goals, Morata 4, Pedro 4 and Willian 2. Now the averages doesn't mean a lot but shows that the spread is still varied across the team, tying to find stats for the amounts of shots each player has had because I reckon Hazard and Willian have had more than Morata this season in the PL. Also there's bound to be some info on clear cut chances as well but can't be arsed looking. Doubt there's too much of a difference again.

With Ronaldo mentioned just thought I'd say he is just too good. A freak. 400 + career goals at league level. Still not Messi either. Really got to appreciste these guys because we might see nobody better in our life times.

 

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

Another Statsbomb article.  Half on Morata, the other on Torreira:

https://statsbomb.com/2018/11/alvaro-morata-lucas-torreira-and-evaluating-imperfection/

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

 

Salah is a wide forward. Firmino a central striker (who was converted from a 10), Ronaldo was a wide forward at Real (now best to think of him as a 9 at Juventus I would say), Benzema a striker. Yes they may play more advanced the wide forwards as opposed to the 9s in those teams but when you consider their goal scoring records it's not hard to see why. But it doesn't/didn't make them strikers... Don't see what the fuss is about, when I'm comparing Morata or Giroud I'm comparing them to number 9s in other teams, Kane, Firmino, Lacazette, Aubamayang, Gabriel Jesus, Aguero etc, not Salah, Mane, Son, Sterling, Sane... in the past Hazard has been playing as a left winger and the most advanced player in a lot of our games but hardly makes him a number 9 either did it? Playing more advanced based on average positions or heat maps or whatever means fuck all. If a full backs got a high average position it doesn't make him a winger or a number 10 does it? Or if a CB has a higher average position it doesn't make him a CM??? 

And Morata gets the most chances in our team? Seriously? I think its fair to say there's a bigger spread than your making out. Alot of the play is through our wide players coming inside, trying to play through the middle rather than going outside and looking to cross early, where Morata would get more chances (or even Giroud look at that goal tonight for instance, these guys are good in the air, in the penalty box). Morata has much much more involvement coming to the ball, affecting the game than affecting the game by running in behind centre backs etc but a lot of that's due to the fact the team plays through Hazard and Willian, always short into feet looking for little combinations. I reckon Morata touches the ball the least amount of times for an outfield player in our team (probably least amount of times in the box on average out of a lot of the big teams too - again reckon it's the teams willingness to look for Hazard or Willian first), I'd be surprised If Kepa isn't close sometimes too.

Regarding chances/shots etc: Morata in the PL averages 2.6 shots per game, Hazard averages 2.7 shots per game, Willian averages 1.6 shots per game, Pedro averages 2 shots per game. Hazard has 7 goals, Morata 4, Pedro 4 and Willian 2. Now the averages doesn't mean a lot but shows that the spread is still varied across the team, tying to find stats for the amounts of shots each player has had because I reckon Hazard and Willian have had more than Morata this season in the PL. Also there's bound to be some info on clear cut chances as well but can't be arsed looking. Doubt there's too much of a difference again.

With Ronaldo mentioned just thought I'd say he is just too good. A freak. 400 + career goals at league level. Still not Messi either. Really got to appreciste these guys because we might see nobody better in our life times.

 

True, Salah is wide forward like Ronaldo. But Firmino is centre forward, not striker. Basicaly those two switch positions all time in Klopp system to provide dynamic flow in attack. But neither is focal point of attack or spearhead if you want. Their forwards distribute goals between eachother, the positioning of front three is just approximate to set up the tactics and due to player limitations or advantages. Lewandowski is clean example of striker and Bayern is example of striker oriented team, where everything leads to #9. 

When you watch Chelsea team play, our wingers and midifeld try to find Morata who runs behind spaces (due to Morata not being as dominant striker and Hazard being individualy by far best attacker in team, that might not look as clear though)

Its also true however that sometimes when we play Giroud and Hazard, those two both play forward roles. Thats why Giroud has linked up better with Hazard than Morata. Giroud is excellent at setting up (better than he is in finishing tbh) and Hazard benefits more there. 

Someone posted a while ago some stats about how many passes have been completed between Hazard and Giroud and Hazard and Morata. Turned out Giroud has linked up with Hazard more because of his role in the team, since he often acted as supporting striker to Hazard who is very polyvalent in his game, being a #10, winger who cuts inside or even wide forward. Meanwhile when Morata plays, focus is to feed him the ball while he runs behind defences (unless someone else is in better position obviously, but going by general setup we have its basicaly get the ball to Hazard or rotate it around the field and then find Morata.

Pedro could also be counted as wide forward due to his runs behind defences. That cant be applied to Willian who is winger who cuts inside (and fails most time lol). 

[Dazzy_Vance 454]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

 

Salah is a wide forward. Firmino a central striker (who was converted from a 10), Ronaldo was a wide forward at Real (now best to think of him as a 9 at Juventus I would say), Benzema a striker. Yes they may play more advanced the wide forwards as opposed to the 9s in those teams but when you consider their goal scoring records it's not hard to see why. But it doesn't/didn't make them strikers... Don't see what the fuss is about, when I'm comparing Morata or Giroud I'm comparing them to number 9s in other teams, Kane, Firmino, Lacazette, Aubamayang, Gabriel Jesus, Aguero etc, not Salah, Mane, Son, Sterling, Sane... in the past Hazard has been playing as a left winger and the most advanced player in a lot of our games but hardly makes him a number 9 either did it? Playing more advanced based on average positions or heat maps or whatever means fuck all. If a full backs got a high average position it doesn't make him a winger or a number 10 does it? Or if a CB has a higher average position it doesn't make him a CM??? 

And Morata gets the most chances in our team? Seriously? I think its fair to say there's a bigger spread than your making out. Alot of the play is through our wide players coming inside, trying to play through the middle rather than going outside and looking to cross early, where Morata would get more chances (or even Giroud look at that goal tonight for instance, these guys are good in the air, in the penalty box). Morata has much much more involvement coming to the ball, affecting the game than affecting the game by running in behind centre backs etc but a lot of that's due to the fact the team plays through Hazard and Willian, always short into feet looking for little combinations. I reckon Morata touches the ball the least amount of times for an outfield player in our team (probably least amount of times in the box on average out of a lot of the big teams too - again reckon it's the teams willingness to look for Hazard or Willian first), I'd be surprised If Kepa isn't close sometimes too.

Regarding chances/shots etc: Morata in the PL averages 2.6 shots per game, Hazard averages 2.7 shots per game, Willian averages 1.6 shots per game, Pedro averages 2 shots per game. Hazard has 7 goals, Morata 4, Pedro 4 and Willian 2. Now the averages doesn't mean a lot but shows that the spread is still varied across the team, tying to find stats for the amounts of shots each player has had because I reckon Hazard and Willian have had more than Morata this season in the PL. Also there's bound to be some info on clear cut chances as well but can't be arsed looking. Doubt there's too much of a difference again.

With Ronaldo mentioned just thought I'd say he is just too good. A freak. 400 + career goals at league level. Still not Messi either. Really got to appreciste these guys because we might see nobody better in our life times.

 

I never said Salah was a striker. I said he’s more of a pure striker than Firmino. If you’re playing more advanced and are the predominant finisher, you’re more of a striker than a player shifting deeper acting as a playmaker. I don’t care where your name sits on a team sheet. It’s your role that counts. I wouldn’t compare Salah with Morata, Morata with Firmino or Firmino with Salah as their roles vary too much and they’re incomparable.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

31 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

True, Salah is wide forward like Ronaldo. But Firmino is centre forward, not striker. Basicaly those two switch positions all time in Klopp system to provide dynamic flow in attack. But neither is focal point of attack or spearhead if you want. Their forwards distribute goals between eachother, the positioning of front three is just approximate to set up the tactics and due to player limitations or advantages. Lewandowski is clean example of striker and Bayern is example of striker oriented team, where everything leads to #9. 

When you watch Chelsea team play, our wingers and midifeld try to find Morata who runs behind spaces (due to Morata not being as dominant striker and Hazard being individualy by far best attacker in team, that might not look as clear though)

Its also true however that sometimes when we play Giroud and Hazard, those two both play forward roles. Thats why Giroud has linked up better with Hazard than Morata. Giroud is excellent at setting up (better than he is in finishing tbh) and Hazard benefits more there. 

Someone posted a while ago some stats about how many passes have been completed between Hazard and Giroud and Hazard and Morata. Turned out Giroud has linked up with Hazard more because of his role in the team, since he often acted as supporting striker to Hazard who is very polyvalent in his game, being a #10, winger who cuts inside or even wide forward. Meanwhile when Morata plays, focus is to feed him the ball while he runs behind defences (unless someone else is in better position obviously, but going by general setup we have its basicaly get the ball to Hazard or rotate it around the field and then find Morata.

Pedro could also be counted as wide forward due to his runs behind defences. That cant be applied to Willian who is winger who cuts inside (and fails most time lol). 

It's the same thing though, saying ther different positions is nonsense for me... different formations, playing styles, rotations and interchanges of position doesn't make a difference. A striker/centre forward is 100% the same. You get different types of strikers who do different things or have different characteristics but they are all strikers or centre forwards, same with wingers, central midfielders, centre backs etc.. unless football's gone mad and following the football manager script 😂

Also regarding the team trying to find Morata, yes but when the ball goes out wide and we create the possibility for crossing situations does it go into the box? He gets stick for missing one on ones and he could improve in thst but at Juve and Real he scored a lot from inside the box, from crosses and cutbacks. Do you think it will be a surprise if Giroud and Morata, two guys who score the majority of their goals in and around the 6 to 12 yard area of the penalty box dont score 10+ goals this season? I wouldn't. I hope both score more than that but if they ended up with 10 or something I wouldn't be surprised because there's a huge tendency when we create these possible chances we recycle the ball inside and try walk through teams. Also poor finishing too froknchances as well definitely a consideration but the more chances these guys get the better probability we have of them scoring more goals.

Only complaint I have about how we've started with Sarri is the defensive issues (will be a long fix I think), width in our play (at times too narrow, no variation) and the unwillingness to utilize the chance to cross more often (amount of chances Giroud/Morata/Barkley/Pedro could profit from is potentially an addition 3 or 5 goals per player over the course of a season, which could turn draws into wins, or loses into draws).

 

22 minutes ago, Dazzy_Vance said:

I never said Salah was a striker. I said he’s more of a pure striker than Firmino. If you’re playing more advanced and are the predominant finisher, you’re more of a striker than a player shifting deeper acting as a playmaker. I don’t care where your name sits on a team sheet. It’s your role that counts. I wouldn’t compare Salah with Morata, Morata with Firmino or Firmino with Salah as their roles vary too much and they’re incomparable.

He's not a striker but he's more a pure striker than his teams striker? The phrase pure striker is weird for me because there's so many different types of strikers these days. There's not only one profile for strikers, Firmino is a very different sort of striker, similarly like Benzema for instance, hes very selfless, great at combining, interchanging but he's still a striker, that ball goes in the box and hes there sniffing about. Just because his team mates score more goals means nothing. Modern day football, wingers score more goals. But still wingers just considered as wide forwards. Again doesn't mean all Salah does is score goals either. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

14 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

It's the same thing though, saying ther different positions is nonsense.... different formations, playing styles, rotations and interchanges of position doesn't make a difference. A striker/centre forward is 100% the same. You get different types of strikers who do different things or have different characteristics but they are all strikers or centre forwards, same with wingers, central midfielders, centre backs etc.. unless football's gone mad and following the football manager script 😂

 

Haha I see. Well in that case if you want to simplify, then you should call these players forwards, not strikers, because striker is already type of forward (like striker, wide/left/right forward, centre forward, raumdeuter, poacher, secondary/supporting striker, false 9,...)

Calling all these "striker" has been accepted by most fans to simplify things, but techicaly its just wrong. 

Every striker is a forward, but not every forward is a striker. 

[Dazzy_Vance 454]

29 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

It's the same thing though, saying ther different positions is nonsense for me... different formations, playing styles, rotations and interchanges of position doesn't make a difference. A striker/centre forward is 100% the same. You get different types of strikers who do different things or have different characteristics but they are all strikers or centre forwards, same with wingers, central midfielders, centre backs etc.. unless football's gone mad and following the football manager script 😂

Also regarding the team trying to find Morata, yes but when the ball goes out wide and we create the possibility for crossing situations does it go into the box? He gets stick for missing one on ones and he could improve in thst but at Juve and Real he scored a lot from inside the box, from crosses and cutbacks. Do you think it will be a surprise if Giroud and Morata, two guys who score the majority of their goals in and around the 6 to 12 yard area of the penalty box dont score 10+ goals this season? I wouldn't. I hope both score more than that but if they ended up with 10 or something I wouldn't be surprised because there's a huge tendency when we create these possible chances we recycle the ball inside and try walk through teams. Also poor finishing too froknchances as well definitely a consideration but the more chances these guys get the better probability we have of them scoring more goals.

Only complaint I have about how we've started with Sarri is the defensive issues (will be a long fix I think), width in our play (at times too narrow, no variation) and the unwillingness to utilize the chance to cross more often (amount of chances Giroud/Morata/Barkley/Pedro could profit from is potentially an addition 3 or 5 goals per player over the course of a season, which could turn draws into wins, or loses into draws).

 

He's not a striker but he's more a pure striker than his teams striker? The phrase pure striker is weird for me because there's so many different types of strikers these days. There's not only one profile for strikers, Firmino is a very different sort of striker, similarly like Benzema for instance, hes very selfless, great at combining, interchanging but he's still a striker, that ball goes in the box and hes there sniffing about. Just because his team mates score more goals means nothing. Modern day football, wingers score more goals. But still wingers just considered as wide forwards. Again doesn't mean all Salah does is score goals either. 

I think there are different interpretations of “striker” but not “pure striker”. Pure by definition means “not mixed with anything else”. Strikers that are pure include Zlatan, Lewandowski, Kane, Morata, etc. They’re poachers. Their role is to get into the box and score and not do much else. Firmino does not fall under this category as I consider him a false 9, which makes him more of a decoy/advanced attacking midfielder. Salah, like Ronaldo at Madrid, drifts into the centre at will. Therefore, his role is a lot more similar to a pure striker’s largely due to the fact he’s a finisher and plays more advanced.

Also disagree that modern day wingers score more goals than strikers. Generally speaking, strikers always have and always will score more than wingers.

[El P. 1,354]

Yes, Morata gets most CLEAR chances in our team. How many times did you see Morata going 1-on-1, or getting good cross/pass, and how many times Willian or Hazard?

You compare players according to what their duty in the team is, not according to where they play. Why would every team need to have their main striker/scorer playing at CF position? I mean that's just oppressive to wide strikers... (/kidding) 

Let me bring in some statistics - Salah in last season averaged 4 shots per game. Firmino averaged 2.3. So tell me now how Salah all of that chanced made by himself, lol...

EDIT: Last season - Pedro 1.8, Willian 1.5, Hazard 2.1, Morata 2.5 (take into account that he was shit most of the time so no one wanted to feed him with the ball, too)

[!Hazard! 3,394]

He really has some problems with his balance. Personally I think he might have an ear infection because this shit isn't normal

Also, what's up with all the offsides. At one point he was 5 feet offside and yet he was still arguing with the ref...

[Johnnyeye 7,509]

FRAUD 

[whats happening 1,615]

anyone who would take morata over torres is crazy

atleast torres wasnt soft as limp dick

he had decency to not look like a moron and wasnt made fun of himself or the club he represented.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, whats happening said:

anyone who would take morata over torres is crazy

atleast torres wasnt soft as limp dick

Yes he was, this rewrritting of history with Torres is getting ridiculous.

[LAM09 7,056]

The most offsides (5) in a Prem game this season is totally unacceptable

[1chelsea 864]

Please just get a striker who can score goals. He give up so easily and like sleeping on the floor like the field is a sofa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[manpe 10,861]

2 hours ago, whats happening said:

anyone who would take morata over torres is crazy

atleast torres wasnt soft as limp dick

he had decency to not look like a moron and wasnt made fun of himself or the club he represented.

This is sarcasm, right? Has to be.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Yes Morata was his usual uninspired and disinterested self (against Everton).

But that's NOT the story today! We played like shit and Morata was just one of the poor performances. Was also disappointed with Sarri today... too slow (to make changes) and conservative.

[Laylabelle 9,535]

More likely to get a hatrick of misses then a actual one. Especially after last week as well! Know no one was stand out today but still. He's back I guess