The Conte Thread

[BlueLyon 9,359]

  On 05/06/2017 at 11:14, communicate said:

But playing a 4 man defence is a big problem for us. David Luiz is going to be a liability playing 4 at the back (his tendency to be out of position is a problem). Alonso will also struggle,  he is great going forward but struggle at one on one. 

It will be tons of changes imo to create a good team with 4 at the back with our current squad. 

 

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Indeed, but better to start sooner than in few years when we see it wont work in CL (unless it works ofcourse).

[communicate 2,703]

  On 05/06/2017 at 12:37, BlueLyon said:

Indeed, but better to start sooner than in few years when we see it wont work in CL (unless it works ofcourse).

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Agree but are we willing to be "bad" for a couple of season ? 

Like you said in your post, let's just buy players to upgrade the quality level of our squad first. We may be champion this season but I consider united,city,arsenal, and spurs to have better squad than ours let alone competing with the three european big boys. In the end of the day whether playing back 4/5 our need imo is still the same. Better wingback/fullback and better midfielder. 

I expect in next season our opponent to have better way to counter our 343. It was a massive problem for most team to handle our "front" 5. In the beginning we were creating chances at will even without fab. Not so much in the end of the season, where we kinda need to grind out chances unless fab is on. This and upgrade for either moses or alonso is the biggest need for next season imo. 

[zekinjo 449]

Its hard to get back to 4 defenders because everyone realized even in September 2016. how bad we're individually and as a team there. This was the reason why we switched formation to 5 defenders. It looks like serious overhaul needs to be done so we can back to 4 defenders.

[Dahnald 256]

  On 04/06/2017 at 15:17, BlueLyon said:

I made little analysis, let me know if you agree or not.

Once again I was left uninspired about 3 man defence after seeing Juve getting done by Real. 

I think we will need to switch to 4 defenders for CL.

Like everyone knows, we had biggest problems this season with crosses. And thats where 3:4:3 or 3:5:2 is very very bad (unless you control the game, another thing we are poor at against top teams). 

Now why is 3 man defence working in PL or Serie A is relatively simple to me. The fullbacks. There are not many teams here with actual quality fullbacks except for Spurs in PL and Napoli in Italy. Chelsea did struggle mainly against Spurs. We also played poorly against Arsenal with Bellering and OX going down on wings. Several other games, we conceded from crosses, but those teams are not as consistent down the flanks and we managed to overcome that.

Now in CL, there is major difference. You have top full backs in every team. Now just look at Carvajal and Marcelo. When those two break through middle (Alves and Sandro), they are left with waste of space to deliver the cross. And then its game over for Juve. Three goals yesterday came in similar fashion. If Juve decided to play 4:3:3, they would double mark Marcelo and Carvajal which might be game over for Real. Instead they opted for additional midfielder to control midfield, but then again their approach was to let Real the ball and defend in second half, a big big mistake from Allegri. Their key advantage turned into uselles. 

Chelsea aint any better at controling the midfield either, so we are pretty much in dark there too.

Marcelo, Alaba, Carvajal, Luis,...as soon they beat our Alonso or Moses, they are left with plenty of space to make good cross and then its not hard for striker to score. Despite juve (or us) have 3 CBS in penalty area, giving false sense of security, its actualy easier for striker to score because of the position of these CBs. Just look where was Bonucci (or even Barzagli) at second Ronaldo goal. Even if they had 3 CBs, Ronaldo found a space. Its what happens before. After fullbacks get space to cross, its already game over if cross is good and striker is efficient. However in 4 defence system, defending fullbacks stay back and limit space for opponent fullbacks or wingers. 3CBS however is very useful against attacks from centre, where we also have support of both midfielders. But that problem is simply solved by opponent by attacking from flanks.

Real was also playing like with two upfront and Isco as #10; meaning they didnt even have proper wingers, something Juve should take advantage of. But they just didnt. Sticking to 3 man defence eventualy killed them. 

As questioning this sounds, after we destroyed the league with 3:4:3, I think we need to change it either next season or season after. If Juve cant do it with BBB and Gigi, no one can. 

Perhaps the ONLY difference we have is that we actualy play 3:4:3, not 3:5:2 and thats good because we actualy have "wingers" unlike in 3:5:2 juve. When we attack Moses and Alonso provide width, Hazard and Pedro act as second strikers or playmakers. When we defend, Pedro and Hazard act as wingers tracking back while Moses and Alonso go deeper. However if we are caught on counter, Moses and Alonso are not in position and we are pretty much done. But even with 3:4:3 we concede alot of goals from flanks, meaning that even the advantage over 3:5:2 could turn useless, when we face top teams in CL. 

Perhaps if we perfect this system and get two brilliant wingbacks, it might work, but as soon as those two are beaten by opponent fullbacks, there will be always serious danger from crosses.

 

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Juve played 4-2-3-1 in the final...

They have been playing this system for months now. Think Allegri will even stick to it. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

  On 05/06/2017 at 16:11, Dahnald said:

Juve played 4-2-3-1 in the final...

They have been playing this system for months now. Think Allegri will even stick to it. 

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They played with BBB as three defenders and Sandro, Alves as wingbacks. 

They did play 4:2:3:1 for a while yes, but not against Monaco and Real.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 05/06/2017 at 15:51, zekinjo said:

Its hard to get back to 4 defenders because everyone realized even in September 2016. how bad we're individually and as a team there. This was the reason why we switched formation to 5 defenders. It looks like serious overhaul needs to be done so we can back to 4 defenders.

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Curious about one thing - think we will continue playing with a back 3 as our default formation but what happens when Conte leaves? Is the club gonna find a manager who primarily plays that system? If not, we could be in for some major reshuffling again in the future.

[magic weeds 446]

  On 05/06/2017 at 20:44, Jason said:

Curious about one thing - think we will continue playing with a back 3 as our default formation but what happens when Conte leaves? Is the club gonna find a manager who primarily plays that system? If not, we could be in for some major reshuffling again in the future.

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I think Alegri at AC Milan played 4 at the back. But at Juve, he realized the system was good or was imposed to him by the club. And I cant say he has flopped. Sometimes you just need th eright manager who is not 1 dimensional.

[zekinjo 449]

  On 05/06/2017 at 20:44, Jason said:

Curious about one thing - think we will continue playing with a back 3 as our default formation but what happens when Conte leaves? Is the club gonna find a manager who primarily plays that system? If not, we could be in for some major reshuffling again in the future.

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I remember Antonio said once how his plan is to play with 4 at the back and even if he's master and commander of 3-4-3 and 3-5-2 with right players would switch to 4-2-4 or 4-2-1-3. His words. Maybe he noticed that 3 at the back mostly works but If you want something big like CL you had to have that extra creative midfielder. Just look at Juve against Real Madrid in CL Final. Even if Juve have probably the best defense (and they played with 5 at the back) they concedes 4 goals and at the end of the night I had that feeling like RM was playing against Bilbao and not mighty Juve.

If Conte gets his targets and I believe it will be (should be) all about defense this summer then it's quiet possible we're going to see different formation like Juve did this season mostly playing with 2 CB's and from time to time they switch back to 3CB's.

Anyway I don't believe we're staying where we are, it's a big risk having only one plan. Personally I expect something similar Juve did this season and that is to switch formation depending on a team we're playing with. Future can be really good for Chelsea if the board shows full support to Conte.

[the wes 7,212]

Antonio Conte has requested an in-depth account of Jose Mourinho’s final pre-season at Chelsea in order to ensure his squad avoid a repeat of their 2015/2016 season.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/antonio-conte-taking-special-measures-to-ensure-chelsea-stars-avoid-repeat-of-jose-mourinhos-final-season-6690318/#ixzz4jFuq9Y14

[Dahnald 256]

People on twitter playing conspiracy theories saying Conte doesn't want to sign his new contract if the club fails to deliver his transfer targets. 

Well, last coach who got an extension was Mou and that was in August 2015

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2015/08/mourinho-signs-new-contract.html

Give it some time shall we. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

  On 10/06/2017 at 10:26, Dahnald said:

People on twitter playing conspiracy theories saying Conte doesn't want to sign his new contract if the club fails to deliver his transfer targets. 

Well, last coach who got an extension was Mou and that was in August 2015

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2015/08/mourinho-signs-new-contract.html

Give it some time shall we. 

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But Im sure he wont stay for long if we do indeed fail to bring players he wants or at least similar ones.

He left juve after they failed to give him what he wanted, I dont think it would be different here.

[Henrique 9,133]

Many people saying Conte is ultra badass for sending Costa THAT msg. Actually I'm pretty sure the board is far from happy with the whole situation, and while Conte might not give a damn (managers usually leave a club with a HUGE paycheck, and he has jobs available in big Italian clubs), the last thing we need is this kind of weird situation, specially when it seems it came out after Conte could not control his emotions after Costa replied him in a bad manner.

 

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

Not again this shit...

[Fernando 6,534]

He is going to leave with out a doubt. 

The club just are no longer ambitious as before. 

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

  On 15/06/2017 at 10:58, xPetrCechx said:

Not again this shit...

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GOSSIP = No Chelsea news lately?! Ok let's make something up - So they've made no transfers so far. "Conte unhappy" sounds like a good title then. Will report it as "GOSSIP" so people would not become suspicious. Type, type, type. Print. Move on to the next one.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

  On 15/06/2017 at 10:58, xPetrCechx said:

Not again this shit...

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I thought we were waiting for the Nike deal to kick in before officially announcing any deals. So that adidas doesn't get any free advert when the new signings hold up the Chelsea shirt. 

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

Hmmm... 

[Fernando 6,534]

Yeah we can never build on to anything good. And it's always the same issue with the board. 

But whatever.