The Conte Thread

[Irakozium257 350]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

 

You can tell by the last sentence and the arm gestures that he means that we overachieved, which is totally true. I know the defeat hurts and all, given the context (gooner fans celebrating and rubbing it in our face (though there are a lot of arrogant loud-mouthed Chelsea fans who were taunting them), that f**got-ass Moses ruining our composure, etc.), but looking on the bright side, I'm fairly optimistic that it was a much-needed wake-up call. Imagine if the gooner fans tell themselves again next season that they did us a favor by making us stronger through beating us again while they are having a classical sh*tty run mid-season. 

I haven't been vocal here in criticizing players since United away cause I felt it would seem like I was a buzzkill village idiot , but I always felt deep in my bones that Matic was mid-table team material and Costa's work-rate was meh on purpose from his part. Matic's goal against Tottenham, for me, was both a gift and a curse. A gift because it made us lead with 2 goals with 15 minutes remaining, and a curse because everyone, including Conte, instinctively ignored how ragged he had been run by Dembele & co throughout the game. Moses and Costa are morally bankrupt and lack emotional intelligence, does any sane coach or fan really want players who would sell their own mother if meant that they won for their team? Alonso deserves to stay, but only as a number two. Benjamin Mendy would be perfect in that role I reckon.

[11Drogba 2,000]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

Conte's cup record is questionable but just in his defence, (1) Allegri has been given far more backing in the transfer market than Conte ever was to build a squad capable of dominating domestically and challenging for Europe, (2) Conte lost to good sides in his last 4 cup competitions (including 2 in the final) which can happen and (3) can't definitively say he's poor in the Champions League just yet because he got KOed by an unstoppable Bayern Munich in one of the seasons. The other one was a failure yes but sample size still too small.

2nd season Juve's number 9 was Vucinic and they faced Drogba. We know how he is in knockout competitions, Gala scored 3 goals in two games, Drogba had two assists and one goal. Drogba's side had also beaten 4-1 Mourinho's Real one year before that. Still Juventus should have eliminated but Gala is known for such surprising results.

A year ago people doubted Conte because he had no experience outside Italy, now they talk about his cup record after almost winning the double in his first season.

 

[AlesJuve 264]

13 hours ago, xPetrCechx said:

You never know, everything can happen.

Conte Is Not A Cup (Domestic+CL) Games Manager. can't win the Italian cup + get to late CL stages, with juve. look what Allegri has done in the last 2-3 seasons there.

 

Conte has only twice participated in the CL.The first coming to quarters losing to Bayern the second time came out to the groups to reach the semifinals of EL. Comparing Conte and Allegri in CL for me is out of context at Conte management never bought the required players. In those years Juventus made markets at 0 euro.
With Allegri the management revolutionized the rose taking advantage of good deals but also spending a lot of money on the market. Now Juventus buys player of 30/40/90 million under Conte the biggest expense was 18/20 million for a player. Today of Conte's Juventus remain Buffon,Bonucci,Barzagli,Chiellini and Marchisio as holders for the rest the rose has been sharply strengthened.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

39 minutes ago, Mana said:

We are going to play Arsenal twice before the next season starts. A pre-friendly and the Community Shield. F'ing get this right both times especially with the CS. It's no FA Cup, but I don't want to lose again to the Gunners. :/

Losing to the Gunners will set the tone going in to next season. Like it did with Mourinho a couple years back.

But as others mentioned, maybe the loss is the silver lining. The cracks are now wide open for Abramovich, the board and Conte to see. I can't stress it enough, that this squad ain't good enough. How we won the league is beyond me. Our original target was just to get to the top 4!

Let's not forget how we got battered by West Ham (LC), Spuds, Arsenal at the Emirates, Liverpool and United at OT. And yes, even though we beat City at the Etihad we seriously rode our luck in that. Apart from the City game, we looked super poor in those. No fight.

I swear if we have at least Costa, Matic and Moses as part of our main XI again next season, I'll give up on winning anything next season. If we do somehow win anything next season, we overachieved.

Conte, again the cracks in the squad wide open for everyone to see. You have the summer. Fix it, otherwise you may have a similar season to Mourinho's 2015-16.

Leaning towards the same. It's the formation, the discipline, the motivation that made our season. This is definitely not a bad squad, the first xi is probably tied best in the country but not by much.But the squad is thin and lacks in quality in very important positions. Matic, Moses, Alonso are not good enough for CL. Cahill and Costa are not quite good enough too but can hardly be replaced. Pedro is not the level of hazard but fine for now. This 3-6 players. There is no way we can upgrade on 6 players in one summer. Even 3 will be a challenge. Also Conte surely is at fault for his average cup results to some extent at least. Tbf there are mitigating factors to all of his disappointing cup campaigns. One not listed is that it is hard to get your motivation up for an da cup final when you already won the league, a much bigger trophy. I have actually very seldom seen a title winning side reach the average level of their league performances in a later cup final. Usually if they win it they do with a below par performance against a badly inferior side. Like our double win in Portsmouth were our defenders were clearly lacking focus. Portsmouth were all over us and even got a pen. Even Bayern were lucky in most of their DFB Pokal finals and simply won by having the far better players. When teams are a similar level of quality the not title winning team might have the greater motivation. E.g when we beat ManU 2007 . Still there is no real comfort in that thought as it feels bad to lose a cup final ESP vs arsenal even tho it was the best arsenal performance I have ever seen.

[Tomo 21,751]

21 hours ago, Jason said:

I agree that Conte's cup record isn't the best (excluding the Champions League) but his 4 defeats did come against Napoli, Roma, Lazio and Arsenal. Just find it strange he can get the better of them in the league but not in the cup.

Big away games has always been an issue for him.

I thnk the bad cup manager is a bit exaggerated, i mean yes he hasn't won one yet but would you call Atletico or us circa 04-11 a bad CL team?

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Big away games has always been an issue for him.

To be fair, that's a big issue for us too. The only big away game we seem to win more often than not is Arsenal. Otherwise we rarely win at Spurs, City, Liverpool and United.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

To be fair, that's a big issue for us too. The only big away game we seem to win more often than not is Arsenal. Otherwise we rarely win at Spurs, City, Liverpool and United.

Conte can't seem to crack Arsenal, even at The Bridge they had 3 serious chances plus there goal. Ancelotti, Jose, Hiddink and even Rafa had Wenger by the balls and knew how to stop Arsenal playing, i love the playing out of the back system we have but vs team's on the quality of Arsenal and above we need to scrap it, we did it at Anfield and Liverpool couldn't hurt us.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

30 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Conte can't seem to crack Arsenal, even at The Bridge they had 3 serious chances plus there goal. Ancelotti, Jose, Hiddink and even Rafa had Wenger by the balls and knew how to stop Arsenal playing, i love the playing out of the back system we have but vs team's on the quality of Arsenal and above we need to scrap it, we did it at Anfield and Liverpool couldn't hurt us.

All the details away, we played with same formation and same 11 we did for most of this season and we usualy did very well. Not a single injury. 

If anyone, the players let him down big time. Such shit attitude from everyone, including regular guys like Azpi or Kante. There is not much Conte can do when Eden, Diego, Kante, etc play so poorly. Nevermind that brainfart from Moses. 

And if we need to adjust whole team to crack THAT Arsenal team, let Ramsey and Xhaka walk over us, then we need some serious improvements.

Conte did deserve some stick for few games, but yesterday the players simply didnt turn up. You could see it from sky. It had nothing to do from Conte motivations, they simply went on holidays last week and didnt return.

Edit: A while ago, I said this team could very well be overachieving this season. Double would kinda hide it, but now its clear for everyone we need improvements. If we dont get some serious investment this year, we never will. And bottom line, Conte is proven league winner guy, so we will likely be competitive there next season. About CL, either Conte will make it there too, or at the least he will create great team for whoever else replaces him eventualy, like he did at Juve. At least I hope that.

[the wes 7,212]

The similarities between Antonio Conte's debut seasons at Juventus and Chelsea

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/similarities-between-antonio-contes-debut-10519927

That's freaky 

[zekinjo 449]

He just needs to be backed by the board, start attracting top quality players and I won't have any doubts about his long term dynasty here.

[The Chels 2,502]

4 seasons is enough evidence in my eyes.

Conte consistently struggles in cup competitions and big (away) games (and so I certainly wouldn't have high hopes for the CL), but he is extremely good at flat-track bullying his way to the league title and that alone makes him a very useful asset, mind.

[Tomo 21,751]

49 minutes ago, The Chels said:

4 seasons is enough evidence in my eyes.

Conte consistently struggles in cup competitions and big (away) games (and so I certainly wouldn't have high hopes for the CL), but he is extremely good at flattrack bullying his way to the league and that still makes him a very useful asset, mind.

Ill be happy with that if Conte is staying for the longish term, league is the bread and butter and law of averages will get us a cup eventually, hopefully the CL. Although hiring a coach who's previous team's have a good record in cup's and has good tactical pedigree can't do any harm, what's Carlos Quieroz upto these days?

[coolhead23 1,147]

My only criticism about Conte (more like an observation) ... In the Arsenal game just like the United one, Conte didnt really have any answers on the pitch ... he normally is all expressive even when we are down but particularly in these games he just went into a zone like he has given up, he went quiet (not his usual self). If this down to lack of idea then he will need to raise his level because next season everyone will know how Chelsea plays and they will come up with good counter strategy. 

I might be wrong in my observation and hope he does a plan B/plan C already. Next season will be brutal and with lot of expectations. 

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, coolhead23 said:

My only criticism about Conte (more like an observation) ... In the Arsenal game just like the United one, Conte didnt really have any answers on the pitch ... he normally is all expressive even when we are down but particularly in these games he just went into a zone like he has given up, he went quiet (not his usual self). If this down to lack of idea then he will need to raise his level because next season everyone will know how Chelsea plays and they will come up with good counter strategy. 

I might be wrong in my observation and hope he does a plan B/plan C already. Next season will be brutal and with lot of expectations. 

So what should he have done ? 

Play different formation ?? No

Press Arsenal against fast player like welbeck ?? No

Play Fabregas ? Against ozil and sanchez ? No

 

[coolhead23 1,147]

44 minutes ago, communicate said:

So what should he have done ? 

Play different formation ?? No

Press Arsenal against fast player like welbeck ?? No

Play Fabregas ? Against ozil and sanchez ? No

 

So nothing can be done at all ... is that what your saying ... So just sit and watch your team crumble!!! Seriously!!! 

As far as what could be done ... Well yes he could have tried a different formation (everyone knows how we play now), changing Hazard instead of Pedro would had been a better option, starting with Fabregas ... etc, etc 

All i m saying it is not a good sign where a top manager doesnt have an answer or a counter strategy (if that was the case) ... he will need to work on that (that be a scope for improvement) ... Next season will be tough and everyone would had micro-analysed us, so we will need to be push up our readiness level. 

 

[Polo7 3,496]

56 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

So nothing can be done at all ... is that what your saying ... So just sit and watch your team crumble!!! Seriously!!! 

As far as what could be done ... Well yes he could have tried a different formation (everyone knows how we play now), changing Hazard instead of Pedro would had been a better option, starting with Fabregas ... etc, etc 

All i m saying it is not a good sign where a top manager doesnt have an answer or a counter strategy (if that was the case) ... he will need to work on that (that be a scope for improvement) ... Next season will be tough and everyone would had micro-analysed us, so we will need to be push up our readiness level. 

 

Arsenal had no choice but to win that game. The difference in desire between the two teams was very apparent. Even if Fabregas started, I doubt we could have won. They were all over us. 

[coolhead23 1,147]

3 minutes ago, Polo7 said:

Arsenal had no choice but to win that game. The difference in desire between the two teams was very apparent. Even if Fabregas started, I doubt we could have won. They were all over us. 

Come on, Mate ... We had the double on the line which makes us equally motivated. All i saying, I hope we dont have such moments where we are clueless ... because next season will be even more tough for us. Whether Fabregas starting would had made a difference, maybe yes ... change in tactics works 

[Fernando 6,585]

12 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Come on, Mate ... We had the double on the line which makes us equally motivated. All i saying, I hope we dont have such moments where we are clueless ... because next season will be even more tough for us. Whether Fabregas starting would had made a difference, maybe yes ... change in tactics works 

We was clueless a couple of times and Conte changed it the next games. 

Remember losing to Arsenal, United and such. 

So I don't have problem with this aspect. He is flexible as shown this season. 

[akgw13 867]

The players heads were not in it, that was readily apparent. They were so hyper focused and stressed during the season that once we locked up the league players mentally and physically switch off and enjoy after such a long season. It is a shame we didn't win the FA cup and that ridiculous first goal the ref allowed really hurt us but NOBODY was interested in playing another meaningful game after WBA. Criticizing Contes approach is not fair, there is nothing a coach can do tactically if the players don't show up. Clearly the players were not motivated.

 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

If he started the line up he did minus John Terry, I'm confident we will have won the game. The team was handicapped from the start. We aren't Madrid or Bayern with interchangeable players were you can afford to make 4 or 5 changes to the line-up or make errors with team selection and not pay for it. Conte made a mistake. Time to move on.