The Hiddink Thread

[Barbara 15,149]

Sadly I missed the game - but it doesn't sound good and yes, Subs change games - but maybe Guus was concerned he might change it and make it worse

I will have to watch the match

However, it is way too early to start thinking Guus can wave the miracle wand

I hope to see some big changes after Palace - only then with the hectic schedule gone will we find out whether Mr Hiddink has a little, big or dead horse

Well, but you have to react someway. I'm talking about our attacking players. Mikel and Matic (except for the goal he missed) were good. But Oscar, Willian (he has credit, but wasn't good today) weren't good at all. Pedro and Hazard were better, but he could have just given one of the kids some minutes.

I don't know, I thought things would be lighter. That was literally my only expectation when Mourinho was fired and then when Guus was announced I thought even more so. I doubted then his tactical qualities - but more based on results, as I don't follow international football much less Russian league...

I won't talk about tactics, about systems, about approach. There's no point on it, he's an interim... but knowing the squad weaknesses and making some changes is the least we can expect. Sure we should give him time, but the lack of subs really annoyed me.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Well, but you have to react someway. I'm talking about our attacking players. Mikel and Matic (except for the goal he missed) were good. But Oscar, Willian (he has credit, but wasn't good today) weren't good at all. Pedro and Hazard were better, but he could have just given one of the kids some minutes.

I don't know, I thought things would be lighter. That was literally my only expectation when Mourinho was fired and then when Guus was announced I thought even more so. I doubted then his tactical qualities - but more based on results, as I don't follow international football much less Russian league...

I won't talk about tactics, about systems, about approach. There's no point on it, he's an interim... but knowing the squad weaknesses and making some changes is the least we can expect. Sure we should give him time, but the lack of subs really annoyed me.

Let's hope he steps it up against Palace

Unless, like Mourinho, he is also confused at the players giving 100% in training and then shutting the bed come matchday.

Probably sat there stunned and unable to grasp what was happening

Maybe we need a team of sports psychologists

[Essien19 1,415]

I get you like Mourinho a lot mate but did you ever criticize him for those exact things he did himself? I don't think you did pal. I don't think we should have kept with Mourinho. First game without him and we play our best football of the season? Coincidence or not. I don't mind people who defend Mourinho but berating Hidding for what Mourinho done is completely hypocritical and shows that some people will defend Mourinho, no matter what. Now when Hiddink guides us to wins, I guarantee you a lot of the Mourinho supporters will start reverting to the claim "they want to play for Hiddink but chose to not play for Moruinho" because they don't want to give any credit to Hiddink. And regarding Matic, you are being very harsh. He was a big reason we never lost the game. He was very good today apart from the miss. He got another chance to play and Hiddink's decision proved right. He was excellent.

I would have liked seeing more of Loftus-Cheek, especially during the pre-season. I criticized Mourinho for denying the boy more playing time.

During the season, i thought that during the crisis having more experience on the field would be better, that means no Loftus-Cheek...

You're right that i often tried to find common sense why Ivanovic was given another opportunity and bringing up arguments why not Baba,

i remember stating match fitness and other reasons.

Finally Baba was rewarded some playing time, Loftus-Cheek not. But it should have been more!

Some time ago i stated that i'm a so called 'Mourinhonista', despite of other fans i had and still have love for the man, i truly believed that there must be reasons

why a highly decorated man like Jose Mourinho chooses to field the 'old guard', he's a specialist, he knows more than me and i have always been in his corner,

no matter what!

Time passes quickly, we have seen more and more, but we're still not playing more convincingly, imo. Something has to change, NOW.

I was sad about Jose Mourinho's dismissal, but i get that it didn't happen just because of the current moods of Abramovic or Emenalo, no,

the style of play has been piss poor so far and Jose Mourinho should have played more youth players and changed the fullbacks. That's on him!

I'll give you and others that...

I wasn't happy about Guus taking over, didn't like what he did with Holland and what exactly has he done in the last years?

I'm not a child, i give Guus chances, maybe you and others don't believe me, but i can't change that!

But i won't cut him as much slack as i did for Mourinho, he's not my man, i have no love for him, but i will give him credit if he turns this shit around.

Yes, i do think that some of our players are fed up by Mourinho's antics, that's on both parties, if Hiddink fixes it, he deserves credit, imo!

After Mourinho was gone, i considered that maybe Mourinho was a bit stuck in his idea of the ideal linup and style of play.

I hoped that Guus would do things differently, that he chooses to field guys like Loftus-Cheek, Baba, Kenedy and maybe put Musonda on the bench.

I thought that he was a different man compared to Jose Mourinho, things aren't looking this way, Ramires was substituted in,

but maybe i'm too harsh and things will change but need more time.

I didn't call for his head, i pointed the finger at some things which i thought could have been handled differently.

First game without him and we play our best football of the season?

Are we only speaking about the league games?

What about the first game of the season against Swansea, what about the win against West Brom?

That counter attack against 'the hawthorns' was very well executed, imo.

I'm not sure that one can clearly say that the game against Sunderland was the best so far, for me that's controversial, but yes, i respect your opinion.

Matic should have buried that chance, that cost us big time, but he still brings some good things to the table.

He ist still a constat force and always driving forward, Mikel or Ramires can't do it like that, i have to give it to him.

For me he wasn't that great, but i 'whoscored' is on your side, so there you have your support.

I was too harsh on him!

OveralI, i smell schadenfreude, some of you don't want to talk about the game, no, they try to find contradictions in my previous arguments, what's the objective?

To make a fool of myself, try to discredit my statements and most importantly brand me as a hypocrite?

Maybe i'm, maybe i'm not, i tried to explain my view, is it that bad?

I say sorry if it's that the case, but it wasn't my intention.

Regards!

[Ossie the King 634]

Well, but you have to react someway. I'm talking about our attacking players. Mikel and Matic (except for the goal he missed) were good. But Oscar, Willian (he has credit, but wasn't good today) weren't good at all. Pedro and Hazard were better, but he could have just given one of the kids some minutes.

I don't know, I thought things would be lighter. That was literally my only expectation when Mourinho was fired and then when Guus was announced I thought even more so. I doubted then his tactical qualities - but more based on results, as I don't follow international football much less Russian league...

I won't talk about tactics, about systems, about approach. There's no point on it, he's an interim... but knowing the squad weaknesses and making some changes is the least we can expect. Sure we should give him time, but the lack of subs really annoyed me.

Guus might just think this is his best side. It would be funny if he actually came to the same conclusions as Jose and played a similar team.

[Barbara 15,149]

Guus might just think this is his best side. It would be funny if he actually came to the same conclusions as Jose and played a similar team.

Okay, but he's new, I'm expecting him to know how terrible Oscar, Iva, Cahill are when he probably hasn't had time. I'll concede I'm too harsh to expect him to drop one of them from the lineup. But then the game happens, you have to react. The level of football played by Oscar today should have prompted him to stay in the bench during HT. He's an attacker, he won't affect much how we defend against a desperate United. Willian didn't have a good match either. Pedro is new to the team and the league and still struggles. At least Kenedy should have made an appearance today - at least 15 minutes. He wouldn't have compromised our defending and even a baby knows that. Taking an AM for another is a simple switch that doesn't affect the balance of the team when said AM has been shitty.

[GodZola 630]

I have no doubt that were it Mourinho in that dugout, a fair few of the people who are criticizing Guus would be singing a different tone. We'd be seeing comments like "crucial point gained at a difficult ground". Excuses after excuses would be thrown about as to why we were so poor in possession - "well we were missing Costa", "well Utd might be in poor form but they're still United", oh and the obligatory "would you rather have lost 4-0 like Arsenal?" It's funny how so much more is being expected from an interim manager who's only had a week to work with these players than the previous manager who had years to mold this team according to his vision.

Hats off to Tomo who is backing Gus just as strongly as he did with Mourinho.

And, and, and by the very same token we've got the Jose out brigade defending Hiddink who absolutely crucified Jose for the exactly the same errors that we witnessed tonight - hilarious!

Despite wanting Jose to stay there were a few on here that agreed with José making some catastrophic errors and none more so than Ivanovich being ammuned from being dropped, tonight Martial was ripping him a new arsehole & he got lucky because Van Gaals also cocked up because he moved Martial over to play against Dave? It seems both managers can't see what the average fan can see, I agree Guus needs time to bed in but he should of seen enough of Ivanovich in one half tonight to make an easy decision to take him off.

[Stats 7,053]

I would have liked seeing more of Loftus-Cheek, especially during the pre-season. I criticized Mourinho for denying the boy more playing time.

During the season, i thought that during the crisis having more experience on the field would be better, that means no Loftus-Cheek...

You're right that i often tried to find common sense why Ivanovic was given another opportunity and bringing up arguments why not Baba,

i remember stating match fitness and other reasons.

Finally Baba was rewarded some playing time, Loftus-Cheek not. But it should have been more!

Some time ago i stated that i'm a so called 'Mourinhonista', despite of other fans i had and still have love for the man, i truly believed that there must be reasons

why a highly decorated man like Jose Mourinho chooses to field the 'old guard', he's a specialist, he knows more than me and i have always been in his corner,

no matter what!

Time passes quickly, we have seen more and more, but we're still not playing more convincingly, imo. Something has to change, NOW.

I was sad about Jose Mourinho's dismissal, but i get that it didn't happen just because of the current moods of Abramovic or Emenalo, no,

the style of play has been piss poor so far and Jose Mourinho should have played more youth players and changed the fullbacks. That's on him!

I'll give you and others that...

I wasn't happy about Guus taking over, didn't like what he did with Holland and what exactly has he done in the last years?

I'm not a child, i give Guus chances, maybe you and others don't believe me, but i can't change that!

But i won't cut him as much slack as i did for Mourinho, he's not my man, i have no love for him, but i will give him credit if he turns this shit around.

Yes, i do think that some of our players are fed up by Mourinho's antics, that's on both parties, if Hiddink fixes it, he deserves credit, imo!

After Mourinho was gone, i considered that maybe Mourinho was a bit stuck in his idea of the ideal linup and style of play.

I hoped that Guus would do things differently, that he chooses to field guys like Loftus-Cheek, Baba, Kenedy and maybe put Musonda on the bench.

I thought that he was a different man compared to Jose Mourinho, things aren't looking this way, Ramires was substituted in,

but maybe i'm too harsh and things will change but need more time.

I didn't call for his head, i pointed the finger at some things which i thought could have been handled differently.

Are we only speaking about the league games?

What about the first game of the season against Swansea, what about the win against West Brom?

That counter attack against 'the hawthorns' was very well executed, imo.

I'm not sure that one can clearly say that the game against Sunderland was the best so far, for me that's controversial, but yes, i respect your opinion.

Matic should have buried that chance, that cost us big time, but he still brings some good things to the table.

He ist still a constat force and always driving forward, Mikel or Ramires can't do it like that, i have to give it to him.

For me he wasn't that great, but i 'whoscored' is on your side, so there you have your support.

I was too harsh on him!

OveralI, i smell schadenfreude, some of you don't want to talk about the game, no, they try to find contradictions in my previous arguments, what's the objective?

To make a fool of myself, try to discredit my statements and most importantly brand me as a hypocrite?

Maybe i'm, maybe i'm not, i tried to explain my view, is it that bad?

I say sorry if it's that the case, but it wasn't my intention.

Regards!

Fair enough mate

[nullabletype 987]

However, it is way too early to start thinking Guus can wave the miracle wand

This is sort of the issue. Many of us looked at Hiddink's appointment with scepticism. That is, we didn't expect him to wave the magic wand, in fact, we didn't expect much at all. Post Chelsea what has he done to make us believe he has the ability to turn this lot around? And it's not like he was left with a bunch of scrubs during his first spell. He is well thought of here because of that first stint however that period would seem to be an exceptional case given everything since.

Naturally I hope he does get this lot working together and getting results but the early signs aren't good.

Folks on here complained about the atmosphere under José yet he's gone and the squad is still largley gash despite a small improvement in form -- standard new manager syndrome I think we can all agree.

So then I'm informed that it's because negative José is so deeply ingrained that they just can't play good football anymore... As if we're supposed to believe that this lot just forgot to play after heavy exposure to Mourinho.

There's something wrong with this team and it's much bigger than José, Drs or anything else in my opinion and I just don't see Guus sorting us out.

I hope I'm wrong and wish him all the best but I honestly don't see where the improvement is going to come from.

[Henrique 9,133]

Lets compare Mourinho and Hiddink, if some of you want to.

Mourinho: 15 points in 16 PL games. Thats 0,9375 points per game.

Hiddink: 2 point in 2 PL games. 1 point per game.

So, Hiddink is already better than Mourinho.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

First, This club needs an identity/philosophy which stems from the youth academy. Next, Stop buying players That don't complement our style of play, third, get rid of dead weight players who lack technical ability or quality. Fourth, promote youth and mix them in with experienced players. Fifth, allow them to express their football freely, be solid defensively, and all must work hard to get the ball back.

[nullabletype 987]

Lets compare Mourinho and Hiddink, if some of you want to.

Mourinho: 15 points in 16 PL games. Thats 0,9375 points per game.

Hiddink: 2 point in 2 PL games. 1 point per game.

So, Hiddink is already better than Mourinho.

Lets compare Holland and Hiddink, if some of you want to.

Holland: 3 points in 1 PL game. Thats 3 points per game.

Hiddink: 2 point in 2 PL games. 1 point per game.

So, Holland was better than Hiddink.

It's fun, this game of selectivism...

First, This club needs an identity/philosophy which stems from the youth academy. Next, Stop buying players That don't complement our style of play, third, get rid of dead weight players who lack technical ability or quality. Fourth, promote youth and mix them in with experienced players. Fifth, allow them to express their football freely, be solid defensively, and all must work hard to get the ball back.

I mean, sure, but it's not exactly simple is it? Otherwise every team would do just that and we'd have 20 teams competing for the title every year.

[Henrique 9,133]

Lets compare Holland and Hiddink, if some of you want to.

Holland: 3 points in 1 PL game. Thats 3 points per game.

Hiddink: 2 point in 2 PL games. 1 point per game.

So, Holland was better than Hiddink.

It's fun, this game of selectivism...I mean, sure, but it's not exactly simple is it? Otherwise every team would do just that and we'd have 20 teams competing for the title every year.

Holland was better than Mourinho. I would put this way.

Post-Chelsea Mourinho, even better. 3 games in a row without defeat, something new this season.

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

Lets compare Holland and Hiddink, if some of you want to.

Holland: 3 points in 1 PL game. Thats 3 points per game.

Hiddink: 2 point in 2 PL games. 1 point per game.

So, Holland was better than Hiddink.

It's fun, this game of selectivism...

I mean, sure, but it's not exactly simple is it? Otherwise every team would do just that and we'd have 20 teams competing for the title every year.

Did I say it was? Every successful and big club, something we aren't yet, established an identity and philosophy which stems from the youth team. Players born and raised into a certain style mixing in with players that were purchased because their ability complements that certain style. Barca, Bayern, United, change managers all the time, yet they continue to be or became successful due to their identity.

[Muzchap 8,966]

This is sort of the issue. Many of us looked at Hiddink's appointment with scepticism. That is, we didn't expect him to wave the magic wand, in fact, we didn't expect much at all. Post Chelsea what has he done to make us believe he has the ability to turn this lot around? And it's not like he was left with a bunch of scrubs during his first spell. He is well thought of here because of that first stint however that period would seem to be an exceptional case given everything since.

Naturally I hope he does get this lot working together and getting results but the early signs aren't good.

Folks on here complained about the atmosphere under José yet he's gone and the squad is still largley gash despite a small improvement in form -- standard new manager syndrome I think we can all agree.

So then I'm informed that it's because negative José is so deeply ingrained that they just can't play good football anymore... As if we're supposed to believe that this lot just forgot to play after heavy exposure to Mourinho.

There's something wrong with this team and it's much bigger than José, Drs or anything else in my opinion and I just don't see Guus sorting us out.

I hope I'm wrong and wish him all the best but I honestly don't see where the improvement is going to come from.

Ahh good old context

My point about wand waving (oooer) was specifically aimed at those calling for Guus's head immediately.

I like Guus and am confident he can do something to turn this around, but he needs at least a few weeks first.

I thought Mourinho would be here until the summer, so it was a surprise. Although I wasn't a fan towards the end, he did deliver in the past. At what price is now the question.

I do think it will take time for any manager (Pep included) to take an ultra defensive (which is what we had become) team, into a free flowing attacking team. It actually IMHO needs much more than just a manager, as Ossie has repeatedly stated, it needs a philosophy throughout the club.

I am, again, confident, that with the limited time and current philosophy, that Guus can get us performing to a higher level than we were.

Yes, the players, Board and everyone in a decision making capacity are to blame, but we need to live in the now and plan the future carefully.

I do truly hope this is Ivanovics last game for a while, we do need to get the proper defensive balance in place and a natural RB AND LB would be a great start.

I think Oscar needs to sit out the remaining games and move in Jan with Willian firmly in the number 10. Pedro on the right and Hazard on the left with either Costa or Remy up front.

Until the Jan window we need Mikel and Matic in the pivot - then in the window Mikel needs to be replaced with anybody competent

It is going to be a tough slog against Palace, but I also hope Traore and RLC get some game time, it would be good to have RLC as a backup to Matic and A.N. Other.

Musonda probably deserves 45 mins as well at some point.

I guess we need to get to 40 points or mathematically safe ASAP, THEN look to blood the youngsters to see what we have in the squad come the summer transfer window.

[Blue_Fox_ 2,086]

So then I'm informed that it's because negative José is so deeply ingrained that they just can't play good football anymore... As if we're supposed to believe that this lot just forgot to play after heavy exposure to Mourinho.

That's just so much bs in few words as if, you know.....the first few months of last season didn't happen at all or the 13/14 season, or the title.

Simple truth is our team is not good enough. Half of the defense, pardon me, 75% of the defense needs to be changed or warm the bench (Cahill/Ivanovic/Terry/Papy) 4 defenders out of 7!

3 Midfielders out of 4 needs to be sent away or warm the bench (Fabregas/Mikel/Ramires) We have one, not working, number 10 and 1 and a half striker.

Only positions where we are covered are wings and Gk.

Now sure, some of that it's José's fault, we'd need Felipe, Lukaku, Mata.

However this demonizing of the manager/s is just downright moronic. Mourinho's tactics outdated and too defensive? Yeah right, let's forget 1 and a half season before things started going south, that just didn't happen, didn't it? Some people are already criticizing Hiddink, after 2 games in 3 days time for not benching Ivanovic or Oscar, as if our team has plenty of options.

Truth is this club as a whole is, much like our roster, full of average or incompetent people trying to play their real life version of Fifa career mode. I just don't see how we can get out of this, unless some serious money is invested in players/coaching staff and whatnot.

Also about the people who keep parading the word "identity" so they can look fancy, we did have an "identity" a well established one at that, from 2004 to 2012, and you know what that came from? Players with balls and leadership and never die attitude, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Drogba, Cech, Essien, we will never have an "identity" with the players we have now, we are the closest thing to a mercenary team we've ever been, these Fabregas, Hazard, Matic, Oscar that we have now they're never going to win a CL or another league title without a proper manager guiding them, and even then they're not going to give their 100%

End or rant.

[dee25 1,044]

And, and, and by the very same token we've got the Jose out brigade defending Hiddink who absolutely crucified Jose for the exactly the same errors that we witnessed tonight - hilarious!

Despite wanting Jose to stay there were a few on here that agreed with José making some catastrophic errors and none more so than Ivanovich being ammuned from being dropped, tonight Martial was ripping him a new arsehole & he got lucky because Van Gaals also cocked up because he moved Martial over to play against Dave? It seems both managers can't see what the average fan can see, I agree Guus needs time to bed in but he should of seen enough of Ivanovich in one half tonight to make an easy decision to take him off.

It's one thing to make those errors in your second match in charge, it's something entirely different to keep making those same errors months after months, defeat after defeat, poor performances after poor performances. It took Guus 45 mins to see that Cesc alongside Matic wasn't working. He acted swiftly and replaced him with Mikel. How long did it take Mourinho before he finally dropped Cesc? How many times did we have to watch Cesc get turned and our midfield sliced opened by the slightest of movement before Mourinho finally did something about it? I understand that some people on here who are strong supporters of Mourinho are desperate for some vindication. I don't blame you, after all it's human nature to want to be proven right. But to criticize Guus for making similar errors in judgement as Mourinho without acknowledgement that the former is only 1 week into his managerial tenure, is quite frankly the height of absurdity.

I believe that many people will be disappointed at the end of the season... Hiddink will not be the one to bench Ivanovic and the latter will play nearly all games till the end of the season.

I am pretty sure that for Guus, Ivanovic is still the guy that scored two goals against Liverpool in the CL. I doubt he saw a lot of games from him. In addition to that, when he came back he found out that Ivanovic was vice-captain... When you are hired mid-season, it is a difficult decision to bench a vice-captain that was already in place before your appointment — this is even more true when you are not aware that the said player is one of the worst players — if not the worst...

I saw that people suggested that he should do his homeworks, that there are videos and analysis/analysts... Yeah fine. But what would he saw if he looks at these analysis/analysts ? That Ivanovic has been elected in the 2015 'team of the year'. He will also find out that Gary Neville described Ivanovic, in february 2015, as the best right-back in England. And if I am not mistaken, I believe that toward september, Neville also diminished Ivanovic's responsibility by pointing out that his mistakes were the result of collective mistakes (Matic would not protect the back-four correctly). As for the videos ? Well, the vast majority of Chelsea fans realized only this year that Ivanovic had past his sell-by-date and they were very surprised it happened. If people that watch him week-in and week-out take a lot of time to realize the misery he is in, then what about a grandpa that just came out of retirement ?

No, Ivanovic his keeping his place untill the end of the season. Nonetheless, I hope Guus proves me wrong.

Good points raised. Would many managers, upon taking over a team mid season, bench a starter based solely on video analyses? I don't think so. I would think most managers would want to see how a player responds to their style/methods of coaching before deciding to replace them in starting line-up. I agree with you that Guus might never drop Ivanovic, but I also think it's important to bare in mind that he's taking over a team that's low in confidence and solidarity. I would imagine that for an interim manager walking into these circumstances, the first priority would probably be to try to lift the mood and unify the dressing room. I'm not sure if coming in and making radical changes right away would be the best approach to take to improve performances/results.

[Blue Armour 4,278]

Won't criticize the starting lineup because he's only been 2 matches in charge and he had limited options due to injury.

But looking at this from a neutral perspective, the football on display was truly horrendous. A side like United has nearly 70% possession against us..and plus, if the game plan was to simply sit back and soak up pressure, that wasn't great either. They still managed to get past the defense and were only prevented by the crossbar from taking the lead.

There were a few bright moments after the interval, but removing Willian instead of Oscar for Ramires was seemed pointless. In the end, we were just playing for a draw and the players clearly accepted that after the Ramires sub. In fact, a draw was probably the only thing on their mind from the start of the game, which was probably why Matic was surprised to see himself through on goal and skied that shot of his.

I'll accept the draw, although I feel it was a better point for United who needed damage control, whereas for us it's only going to help us limp away from the relegation zone.

[didierforever 7,349]

Majority of Mourinho supporters who are bitter about him leaving are literally waiting to pounce on Hiddink on anything he does wrong rather than give him support.

its not just "mourinho supporters".

what is the point of playing iva? what is the point of playing oscar? how can you take over a team and then simply make the same mistakes that the previous guy was making.

he is using the same tactics, the same formations, the same players.

people say he "needs time to analyze". i mean any half decent manager would first and foremost look at how we concede our goals and try to change that, has he? NO.

if he had some clips of chelsea this season, then lets just look at some of the evidence:

1. swansea - iva getting raped by montero

2. city - iva getting raped by sterling

3. wba - hopeless performance

4. palace - zaha and bolasie making a mockery out of him.

5. everton - naismith did not even care to lube him first.

and i can go on and on and on.

any half decent manager would have played our RB as a RB and our LB as a LB.

making the same mistakes again and again and again has no excuses.

iva is not going to suddenly sprout wings and gain 2 yards in pace.