The Mourinho Thread

[Jase 43,479]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

At the moment, I'm only confident we'll win 4 of those games.

I was going to put this in the Schurrle thread, but it seems more appropriate to put another Mourinho victim in here...

Jose Mourinho didn't trust me at Chelsea...it all felt a bit weird to me, says Wolfsburg midfielder Andre Schurrle.

But he trusts Cuadrado enough to spend a shit-ton of money on a 26 year old with one good season to his name? What the fuck? I would love to know what goes through Mourinho's mind when he ships on the likes of Andre, Juan, Kevin and Ryan. Players we could do with now.

I had a feeling Andre wasn't a Mourinho singing anyway, too attacking for his liking. Hazard is the only player allowed to attack apparently and even he gets criticised for not tracking back, while Ivanovic goes on suicide missions...the hypocrisy is astounding. I wish we could get proper answers for shit like this.

I'm starting to think Mourinho's famous 'man-management' skills are nothing but a fabrication started by the chosen few...

Cuadrado was clearly a panic buy really.

[coolhead23 1,146]

1) I define youth quality as someone who is able to make an impact at Chelsea. We send kids out elsewhere - but they don't even get games for the likes of Bournemouth (I'm using the Atsu example here). That suggests that, if they can't play for Bournemouth (with all due respect), they don't have much chance of making it at Chelsea. A player is ready to be part of the first-team when they prove they are. We can all criticise Mourinho for his lack of faith in youth products, but the fact he's given playing time to RLC and Kenedy is encouraging. Even then, I don't think either of them are "ready" as they are just kids, and will only become "ready" with experience. However, they have made an impact already by imposing themselves on the manager's plans - so I would classify those players as youth quality.

2) No, I don't think the players at Arsenal like Bellerin, or Joe Gomez at Liverpool, or Wilson or Blackett at United, are any better than our current crop of kids. At teams like Arsenal and Liverpool where mediocrity is an expectation, you can give more game time to youngsters. At Chelsea, it is a lot harder, because we're expected to win games - and you have to admit we're far more likely to win matches with Diego Costa up front rather than Solanke or Bamford. Jose's track record of bringing youngsters through is not as poor as some people make it out to be, but it is poor in comparison to Wenger and Rodgers, but both of them seem comfortable with finishing in fourth or fifth. Jose just can't take the risk here. Everybody praised Ancelotti for supposedly bringing youth players through the ranks, but the only players he gave consistent chances to were Bruma (who after getting annihilated by Heskey in the 3-3 draw with Villa) and McEachran (who we all vastly overrated on the basis of a half-decent first touch and the ability to play one/two-touch passes). Otherwise we went with the tried and trusted old-timers like Cole, Ballack, Belletti. Yes, you can argue Jose could trust in the youth a little more - but can he afford to? With results being this bad already I don't think he's going to have too many opportunities to do so. You can turn around and say that a kid would player better than any of the first team did in the first half against Newcastle, but this is a quality squad that is unfortunately suffering from a crisis of confidence. You don't become bad players overnight, but to start the likes of Traore or Kenedy over Hazard or Oscar would be ridiculous, because despite having poor matches, it only takes one moment of genius (i.e. the Ramires screamer for the 2-1) to get us back into the game.

3) Trust has to be gained. The players need to seize their opportunities, it's as simple as that. Regardless of how few and far between they are, if you want to play for the top clubs you've got to take those chances. How many 18 year olds do Real Madrid play? One or two, yes - when they're 4-0 up and can afford to bring off one of their multiple superstars. We don't have that luxury. I think we have an outstandingly good youth academy and there are one or two diamonds like Charlie Colkett who could go on to become special, special players. But they won't get too many chances at a club that has to win every game, hence why they go out on loan - and if they can't do it in League 1, for instance, then we know it's unlikely they'll be able to do it in a Champions League semi-final in the Camp Nou.

I wouldn’t completely disagree to what you have mentioned … It makes sense when you mention about what Jose is doing in terms of RLC and Kenndy, about we are more results centric, experience will always take precedence over raw youth, about Real Madrid and on gaining trust.

But I have a slightly different take on this.

1. Loan system: Brilliant idea to have the young players out on loan in the hope that they get game time for development. But honestly is it helping our kids in terms of deployment … I don’t think so. because we are more focused on getting the player out which can help us in terms of revenue. Van Ginkel to Stoke was the first one that I read of having a clause where if the player get more game time, Stoke will pay less to Chelsea (I’m not sure if this is true or if this is actually the first one) Whereas we send out someone like a Bamford to Palace who already had 3-4 strikers in front of Bamford. This mean he wouldn’t get a game often which will slow down the momentum. Then there is Vitesse, even if a player does well there we still consider them as not ready. I hope we learn how to use the loan system to our kids benefit. We need more of the Van Ginkel scenario for our loanees.

2. As a club I feel we have definitely evolved … investment into youth was one such thing. In the past yes we didn’t have players to go and replace the experience lot so we reverted to the old guns as you rightly pointed. But after the Pep’s fiasco, I believe we are trying to show a level of patience with our managers … Jose still in charge is an example. So I feel there is a pressure on Jose also to start using the youth to get them drafted into the first team rather than just being result centric. (This transfer window can be taken as an example where the club wanted our manager to look into our talent pool). This is the reason why we have RLC been used more often as compared to last season. (Else how can you explain RLC not going out on loan while every one else is been sent out). I feel now the club is ready to take a chance with the youth and provide that support to the manager if we are moving in the right direction. A good manager will always blend the experience with the youth so that there is an on-transition without disturbing the balance of the team. And at the end of the day, experience will always have an upper hand over the youth.

3. Talking about the other clubs: Stating Arsenal were a mediocre team, wouldn’t completely agree … Wenger actually built up a good team after like 3-4 yrs post invinisible season but the team had a manager who had no idea kinda of mediocre one. Again United last season put their trust into their young players, they weren’t exactly mediocre side. I believe at the end of the day it is the trust that you put into the young players will make them shine or fail. Talking about Real Madrid is a not a good example of nursing youth rather look at Barca in the recent past … they had a vision for their young guns and they haven’t disappointed them much.

I’m not stating lets have 11 youth players in the first team (can we do that J, wouldn’t mind) but there has to a process in place where we can access our own resource pool which I don’t think is in place. We have good potential youth players and we have a good team with certain gaps but we need someone who can bind the 2. Is Jose the man for the same, I m not really sure … I do hope he does. Talking about our current position, if we are hell bend on playing certain players over and over again then better to give the future a chance … how much more worse can it happen.

In the end of the long essay, I hope we do a balancing act of getting the youth integrated into the first team because at the end of the day they are 18/19 yrs old kid and they need a guiding light. If we have to give away a potentially good player on loan for a couple of games in the entire season it would be better if we make him stay at the club and offer the same.

[lionsden 4,689]

There's no way he should stay in charge if he fails to qualify for the champions league at the end of the seaosn. that's the bare minimum requirement for every manager of top teams in europe. And at this rate, it will take a complete turn around in performance and result for that objective to be met.

[zolayes 14,489]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

Lots of home games in there that should be fairly straight forward, some winnable away games and really tbh the only tough game there will be away against Spurs.

Imagine if (like we should as the champions) we come out of that run with 27-30 points or so, that will immediately rocket us up the table and suddenly all will look rosy. I genuinely have faith that we'll drop a maximum of 5 points over the next 11 games which will put us very high up and make everything look much better.

Hopefully either Ivanovic gets injured or Mourinho comes out from under the gypsy curse Ivan's mother put him under to never see him as the problem because that seems like the only way he'll be dropped and we'll be far more solid at the back without him!

IF we manage more than 20 points I will be delighted .. Not over confident of even 20 tho

[lionsden 4,689]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

Lots of home games in there that should be fairly straight forward, some winnable away games and really tbh the only tough game there will be away against Spurs.

Imagine if (like we should as the champions) we come out of that run with 27-30 points or so, that will immediately rocket us up the table and suddenly all will look rosy. I genuinely have faith that we'll drop a maximum of 5 points over the next 11 games which will put us very high up and make everything look much better.

Hopefully either Ivanovic gets injured or Mourinho comes out from under the gypsy curse Ivan's mother put him under to never see him as the problem because that seems like the only way he'll be dropped and we'll be far more solid at the back without him!

I admire your optimism but this is the real world and we have shown nothing thus far to suggest we are capable of putting together such a run.

[Viper22 2,418]

I admire your optimism but this is the real world and we have shown nothing thus far to suggest we are capable of putting together such a run.

Well tbh we are now undefeated in 4 games and the only game we didn't win of those 4 is the one against Newcastle and that was the first point we've picked up in 4 visits there. So I would have taken a point at the start of the day.

I have faith that the team has shaken off the sluggish start from the ridiculous shortened pre season (thanks to that bloody stupid post season tour) and given the following favourable run of fixtures can at least get a record of something like 9 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss from the next 12 games which would be 29 points which would leave us on 37 points at the halfway point of the season which after the horrific start we had wouldn't be bad at all.

[Viper22 2,418]

All the away fixtures are not easy...

Stoke are horrifically out of form ATM, West Ham have only won 1 game at home all season and Leicester just conceded 5 against Arsenal. I'm not overly worried about any of them tbh.

And I never said easy . I said winnable, and they really are.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

There is no 'good' decision regarding Mourinho. Sacking him would do no good. The team at the moment needs stability and sacking the manager would make things even worse. Even more, it will cause depression among the fans.

However, By keeping him until the end of the season given the way things are going, we're running the risk of the possibility not qualifying for the Champions League. A year without the CL would be catastrophic. We don't have united's 'history' or 'brand' to go back on top. Chelsea Football Club was/is heavily dependant on results.

It comes down to deciding which is worse, and which is worst.

[Jase 43,479]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

Lots of home games in there that should be fairly straight forward, some winnable away games and really tbh the only tough game there will be away against Spurs.

Imagine if (like we should as the champions) we come out of that run with 27-30 points or so, that will immediately rocket us up the table and suddenly all will look rosy. I genuinely have faith that we'll drop a maximum of 5 points over the next 11 games which will put us very high up and make everything look much better.

Hopefully either Ivanovic gets injured or Mourinho comes out from under the gypsy curse Ivan's mother put him under to never see him as the problem because that seems like the only way he'll be dropped and we'll be far more solid at the back without him!

Since you're confident that we can go on a near perfect unbeaten run in the next 11 matches, here's something interesting...

[pachman40 357]

I haven't read through the last +/-20 pages in this thread but I'm going to make some assumptions. Lots of Mourinho outs, lots of Mourinho's not the problem, lots of Mourinho lacks class and puts Chelsea in a bad light unnecessarily. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Without wading into those debates, my takeaway from the weekend regarding Mourinho is that in my opinion he hasn't even gotten close to deserving of the sack. I don't want to paper over all the issues that are very real and deserve attention/action, but this season is far from lost. City look very vulnerable, United and Arsenal do not instill fear in me, and Chelsea have underperformed in the league to this point. I recognize that everything is far from sunshine and lollipops, but what would sacking Mourinho accomplish? The new manager would pull the reins off all our offensively restricted players and we would magically play freeflowing football that would instantly turn us into title favorites? Our club would magically be seen in a good light by the media who would in turn start a crusade to benefit Chelsea instead of dragging us through the mud? The FA would magically treat everyone consistently the same and make decisions that everyone agrees with regardless of which club they support? Come on people, these things won't change because Klopp or Guardiola or Sir Alex replace Mourinho. We all agree our team is underperforming at the moment but what makes you think that bringing in another manager at this stage will give us a BETTER CHANCE to turn around this season than a man that is already familiar with the squad and has been successful with this club in the very recent past?

I mentioned in a previous post that Jose is not perfect and makes head-shaking decisions. That has only been reinforced with Brana's continued starts and Baba's absence from even making the bench. I don't know anyone who could or has defended this. In the past, Jose's loyalty to his players was a positive, but in this case he is definitely doing the club a disservice. But let me ask this...on it's own, is that situation enough of an issue for Jose or any manager to get sacked? While I loathe that decision, I have to give Jose the "manager's option" and hold my nose because in general I think he's doing an excellent job and is the best option for Chelsea.

Given the choice, every person on this forum would choose a club that wins trophies every year, plays attractive football, is full of successful homegrown players, with a youth pipeline that continuously pumps in talent that the manager is confident in playing regularly. That is the ideal that everyone aspires to achieve. If all of those boxes aren't checked, that does not mean we need to move on from our current manager, that just means we have room to grow. At any one time in the whole world there is a maximum of ONE team that can check all of those boxes at any point in time and most of the time there are ZERO teams at that level. Perspective people. Like I've said before, Jose isn't perfect, but he's the right man for this club in my eyes for the foreseeable future. We will make top 4 this season with him at the helm, I have no doubts about that. Can anyone tell me this season is lost? We have champions in our squad and champions on the sidelines, they will make us proud this season, believe it!

Edit: Before anyone pulls out the default "You might be satisfied with 4th, but I'm not" argument, I'm not for one moment suggesting we strive for CL football and if we achieve it I'm proud. I'm simply saying that winning the league does not necessarily need to be in the equation for us to consider the season a success and be proud of the team. There are many possible outcomes where we would be proud of our team and the results they achieve this season, and NOT ONE of those situations have been removed from possibility this season. The season is young and we have all the tools available to still have a very successful season.

Edited September 28, 2015 by pachman40

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

Cuadrado was clearly a panic buy really.

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2015/02/06/jose-mourinho-says-juan-cuadrado-not-a-panic-buy-will-need-time-to-settle/

Jose Mourinho expects Juan Cuadrado to grace the Stamford Bridge turf for the first time today and has spoken about the progress he expects the Colombian to make.

Cuadrado, who signed from Serie A side Fiorentina on the final day of the January transfer window, made his Blues debut as a late substitute in Saturday’s 2-1 win at Aston Villa.

We host Everton tonight and ahead of the game, Mourinho discussed the 26-year-old’s career path and prospects in the Premier League.

‘He is selected,’ said the manager, before adding: ‘I know if he will start or not but I won’t say.

‘It’s normal, step by step, to be integrated. He needs time. I know Italy and I know the difference between Italy and England. His formation, his development, his experience – everything was in Italy.

‘I wasn’t expecting him to come on to the pitch against Aston Villa and destroy them. Stability, time, integration – I think we will see the best Cuadrado next year.’

Also Jose said that he followed him when he was at Inter.

"Cuadrado is not going anywhere this summer," Mourinho told DirecTV Sports.

"People don't know Cuadrado yet, I have seen him many times when we were both in Italy, me at Inter and him at Udinese.

"Because of that I have a lot of hopes for him for next season. I hope in the Copa America he can regain his self-esteem, his ego and that he has that joy of playing."

http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/english-football/2015/06/11/12606962/mourinho-i-have-high-hopes-for-cuadrado

[pHaRaOn 2,131]

I was going to put this in the Schurrle thread, but it seems more appropriate to put another Mourinho victim in here...

Jose Mourinho didn't trust me at Chelsea...it all felt a bit weird to me, says Wolfsburg midfielder Andre Schurrle.

But he trusts Cuadrado enough to spend a shit-ton of money on a 26 year old with one good season to his name? What the fuck? I would love to know what goes through Mourinho's mind when he ships on the likes of Andre, Juan, Kevin and Ryan. Players we could do with now.

I had a feeling Andre wasn't a Mourinho singing anyway, too attacking for his liking. Hazard is the only player allowed to attack apparently and even he gets criticised for not tracking back, while Ivanovic goes on suicide missions...the hypocrisy is astounding. I wish we could get proper answers for shit like this.

I'm starting to think Mourinho's famous 'man-management' skills are nothing but a fabrication started by the chosen few...

Schurrle can't even make an impact at Wolfsburg, being heavily criticized by his own manager. He is a player of mood, and it is only his fault that he can't make it.

[Clockwork 1,794]

There is no 'good' decision regarding Mourinho. Sacking him would do no good. The team at the moment needs stability and sacking the manager would make things even worse. Even more, it will cause depression among the fans.

However, By keeping him until the end of the season given the way things are going, we're running the risk of the possibility not qualifying for the Champions League. A year without the CL would be catastrophic. We don't have united's 'history' or 'brand' to go back on top. Chelsea Football Club was/is heavily dependant on results.

It comes down to deciding which is worse, and which is worst.

Changing managers have always brought a change in the positive direction. Well it is not guaranteed, but history is in favor of such move. Some would argue those teams were very heavy veteran team, but the team with Rafa it wasn't exactly much different from this one. Also the competition for 4th is not the same, we have less to fear. The usual contenders to break into the top four is Spurs and pool. Neither worry me, in fact missing out on the top 4 is not a concern with or without Mourinho.

But I definitely see the pros if we get the manager we want, say Klopp is that man and he agrees to take over. You give him plenty of time to asses the squad and what we wants to build his team. Every manager uses their first season to asses and evaluate their players, no manager hardly ever makes a significant changes to the squad before seeing the team with his own tactics. so by waiting we delay the process.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I was going to put this in the Schurrle thread, but it seems more appropriate to put another Mourinho victim in here...

Jose Mourinho didn't trust me at Chelsea...it all felt a bit weird to me, says Wolfsburg midfielder Andre Schurrle.

But he trusts Cuadrado enough to spend a shit-ton of money on a 26 year old with one good season to his name? What the fuck? I would love to know what goes through Mourinho's mind when he ships on the likes of Andre, Juan, Kevin and Ryan. Players we could do with now.

I had a feeling Andre wasn't a Mourinho singing anyway, too attacking for his liking. Hazard is the only player allowed to attack apparently and even he gets criticised for not tracking back, while Ivanovic goes on suicide missions...the hypocrisy is astounding. I wish we could get proper answers for shit like this.

I'm starting to think Mourinho's famous 'man-management' skills are nothing but a fabrication started by the chosen few...

I'd wait to hear the actual interview before I believe any of that.

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

Stoke are horrifically out of form ATM, West Ham have only won 1 game at home all season and Leicester just conceded 5 against Arsenal. I'm not overly worried about any of them tbh.

And I never said easy . I said winnable, and they really are.

Like Newcastle?

[kobematabryant 400]

I was going to put this in the Schurrle thread, but it seems more appropriate to put another Mourinho victim in here...

Jose Mourinho didn't trust me at Chelsea...it all felt a bit weird to me, says Wolfsburg midfielder Andre Schurrle.

But he trusts Cuadrado enough to spend a shit-ton of money on a 26 year old with one good season to his name? What the fuck? I would love to know what goes through Mourinho's mind when he ships on the likes of Andre, Juan, Kevin and Ryan. Players we could do with now.

I had a feeling Andre wasn't a Mourinho singing anyway, too attacking for his liking. Hazard is the only player allowed to attack apparently and even he gets criticised for not tracking back, while Ivanovic goes on suicide missions...the hypocrisy is astounding. I wish we could get proper answers for shit like this.

I'm starting to think Mourinho's famous 'man-management' skills are nothing but a fabrication started by the chosen few...

Schurrle has been very average for Wolfsburg so far. Mourinho should be handed a medal for getting 22m out of Schurrle.

[blues.bridge 343]

Schurrle has been very average for Wolfsburg so far. Mourinho should be handed a medal for getting 22m out of Schurrle.

why should we give a medal for 22M schurrle sell to mou? mou decides himself whether sell o hold, but the price and negotiations are made by Marina!

[Jase 43,479]

:lol: