The Mourinho Thread

[The Chels 2,502]

Simeone who can do everything Mourinho does in terms of defensive organisation and also better it by improving his team technically.

This. Though I'd actually argue that Simeone's defensive organisation is better. His side concede very few clear-cut chances when they park the bus but also create many chances themselves with very clear rehearsed attacking moves, which is the complete opposite of us. The exception is the recent matches against Barcelona, probably the only team capable of breaking through Atleti's 'bus' and only now when they're firing on all cylinders (they failed many times last year). Simeone is not perfect and his tactics for the recent game at Celta Vigo backfired badly but he admitted as much after the game and he always adapts his tactics (usually at half time like he did in the cup against Real or in the league against Barca) when they don't work, trying something new.

Jose, meanwhile, has been using the exact same tactics in the big games this season (including when we take the lead) even though they have consistently failed us. Remember our away performance at City last season? It was fantastic but we played them in the FA Cup soon after and Jose used virtually the same tactics. Unsurprisingly they were nullified and he did nothing to change it at half time, just like he did nothing positive at HT against them this year or any other big team - not even against Tottenham when it was needed most. I'd also love to see Jose take some responsibility but he'd rather blame anyone (Hazard/Schurrle, the referee, the ball boys, the press, lack of training) than look at himself.

I fully trust in Jose. When he will be bound to win, I'm sure he will win the big matches. He is a specialist in the important moments.

Don't they call Jose 'el semifinalista' in Spain? I've heard many Madrid fans use the term. It is harsh but not so inaccurate.

[Barbara 15,149]

You've made reference several times about our poor defence yet you also (like all the others) expect us to attack PSG & in your eyes aren't that special? Not a great but not too shabby either, they have some obvious quality that can take the game away from us which seems to have been taken too lightly on here.

Well I concur our defence at times is suspect & is going to be scrutinized more away from home against teams with more quality than what we face in the PL most weeks, hence the reason for José approach, coupled with the fact 5 players haven't trained (poss virus?) then his tactics become more understandable, though I'm unsure why Costa & Fabregas stayed on the pitch for so long?

Let's put it another way let's go all out attack & end up like le Arse & go out early?!

For the record I do not advocate how we have played negative in some games this season either but tonight certainly is not one of them, yes we got lucky & played poorly but I'll take a scoring draw in any CL knockout game.

Lastly, there won't be many if any sides that will go away & play 'open & expansive' football bar Le Arse & we all know what happens to them.....

no, you're reading my posts wrongly and I'm not clear on them, I suppose.

I meant that when we saw how PSG was approaching this match he could have released let's say Eden and Cesc from their biggest defensive responsibility (leave it a normal level) so we would explore the chance PSG was offering. They weren't anything special today in the first half, they were cautious and afraid of us and we could have capitalized that WITHOUT exposing us. Why people don't understand balance? I'm not asking us to be Arsenal for 90 minutes, but to be more daring the first 45. It's very simple. We didn't need Cesc, Hazard and Willian to be swamped with defensive responsibilities as they were when PSG showed how they were going to approach the match.

There isn't only the pragmatic way and the Arsenal way. There's a very interesting balance in the between, one we could have used in the first half. I guess now I've been crystal clear about my problem with today's match and if someone disagrees is their prerogative, but now I've been clear, something I lacked before but that you could still catch between the lines without assuming I was asking us to bomb forward with 6 players.

Blanc surprised him and instead of counter-attacking the surprise and adapting to the new situation, he stuck to his initial plan when he could have improved it.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

This. Though I'd actually argue that Simeone's defensive organisation is better. His side concede very few clear-cut chances when they park the bus but also create many chances themselves with very clear rehearsed attacking moves, which is the complete opposite of us. The exception is the recent matches against Barcelona, probably the only team capable of breaking through Atleti's 'bus' and only now when they're firing on all cylinders (they failed many times last year). Simeone is not perfect and his tactics for the recent game at Celta Vigo backfired badly but he admitted as much after the game and he always adapts his tactics (usually at half time like he did in the cup against Real or in the league against Barca) when they don't work, trying something new.

Jose, meanwhile, has been using the exact same tactics in the big games this season (including when we take the lead) even though they have consistently failed us. Remember our away performance at City last season? It was fantastic but we played them in the FA Cup soon after and Jose used virtually the same tactics. Unsurprisingly they were nullified and he did nothing to change it at half time, just like he did nothing positive at HT against them this year or any other big team - not even against Tottenham when it was needed most. I'd also love to see Jose take some responsibility but he'd rather blame anyone (Hazard/Schurrle, the referee, the ball boys, the press, lack of training) than look at himself.

\\

Oh, I certainly do agree. Without mincing words.... I'm just not convinced about him, sorry to say. We will win the league this season, we have the best squad (thanks to Mourinho and to Emenalo), he will instill a winning mentality in the squad, hopefully, but in the long term, it's not sustainable for the group of players we have and for the image of the club. Roman won't let it happen. There's a reason Mourinho was not even his 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice at the time. The sideshows and the brand of football especially. For another decade? I doubt it. It will be like his 1st spell here.

[supporter 3,088]

Don't they call Jose 'el semifinalista' in Spain? I've heard many Madrid fans use the term. It is harsh but not so inaccurate.

I think the Madridistas are not a good example to follow.

Jose has won two Champions League with two different teams in two different countries. Jose is special.

Perhaps reach the semifinals it may seem a joke for Madridistas, but Real Madrid was seven years without reaching the quarterfinals in Champions League before the arrival of Jose.

But I do not support Mourinho for their titles. Yes, Jose has 2 Champions League, he won the league in 4 different countries, he has won all the cups in four different countries and Jose is a legend of football. But I support Jose because I believe in him. His mentality, his philosophy, all in Jose is perfect.

Sometimes is better win by losing than lose by winning

Regards.

[GodZola 630]

no, you're reading my posts wrongly and I'm not clear on them, I suppose.

I meant that when we saw how PSG was approaching this match he could have released let's say Eden and Cesc from their biggest defensive responsibility (leave it a normal level) so we would explore the chance PSG was offering. They weren't anything special today in the first half, they were cautious and afraid of us and we could have capitalized that WITHOUT exposing us. Why people don't understand balance? I'm not asking us to be Arsenal for 90 minutes, but to be more daring the first 45. It's very simple. We didn't need Cesc, Hazard and Willian to be swamped with defensive responsibilities as they were when PSG showed how they were going to approach the match.

There isn't only the pragmatic way and the Arsenal way. There's a very interesting balance in the between, one we could have used in the first half. I guess now I've been crystal clear about my problem with today's match and if someone disagrees is their prerogative, but now I've been clear, something I lacked before but that you could still catch between the lines without assuming I was asking us to bomb forward with 6 players.

Blanc surprised him and instead of counter-attacking the surprise and adapting to the new situation, he stuck to his initial plan when he could have improved it.

Strange really as I norm agree with most of your posts but your right its my prerogative & unfortunately for once I see things from a different perspective than you.

As always Hazard is the one that can make things happen & again I concur but as stated in my original post tonight (not the one to you) Blanc done a number on him by getting his players to 'take him out' at all costs & they got away with it cus the ref was atrocious in not booking or even a red that could of changed the game in our favour, no protection for Eden so he was largely nullified, as for Cesc he was just none exisistent virtually the whole time he was on pitch so not sure how we were going to get any sort of momentum in an attacking sense without our 2 most creative players who were largely redundant.

This is not a pop at you but if we'd of gone out with an attacking approach & lost the game 3 or 4/1 then the same protagonists would be on here saying the exact opposite of what's being said now, the very same gets over stated about tiredness yet we had a week off & we still looked lethargic, managers can't win no matter what they do!

[Barbara 15,149]

Strange really as I norm agree with most of your posts but your right its my prerogative & unfortunately for once I see things from a different perspective than you.

As always Hazard is the one that can make things happen & again I concur but as stated in my original post tonight (not the one to you) Blanc done a number on him by getting his players to 'take him out' at all costs & they got away with it cus the ref was atrocious in not booking or even a red that could of changed the game in our favour, no protection for Eden so he was largely nullified, as for Cesc he was just none exisistent virtually the whole time he was on pitch so not sure how we were going to get any sort of momentum in an attacking sense without our 2 most creative players who were largely redundant.

This is not a pop at you but if we'd of gone out with an attacking approach & lost the game 3 or 4/1 then the same protagonists would be on here saying the exact opposite of what's being said now, the very same gets over stated about tiredness yet we had a week off & we still looked lethargic, managers can't win no matter what they do!

don't worry. I don't mind when people disagree with me. I mind when they misunderstand what I'm saying, assuming I'm saying a different thing - which I didn't even can say you were implying as most of my posts focused on something else and I wasn't explicit on what I think we could have done differently.

I didn't think they were that unfair fouling Hazard. Tbh, fouling is one aspect of the game, whether it makes it dirtier or not, it's a different story and sometimes I wish we fouled opposition in not dangerous areas than we do. It disrupts play. As I said, a bit dirty and I hate when they do this to our players, I just wish we gave teams of their own medicine.

I think we could have approached the first 45 in a different way and killed the tie. I can't predict it would have worked though.

edit:

Mourinho said a number of players in his side were struggling with illness and injury in the build-up to the game

‘Many times you know the injured players that cannot play, some of the time you don’t know the ones who have problems. Since the Everton game, Hazard, Willian, Oscar, Fabregas and Ivanovic haven’t trained. They did some individual training to keep moving but they didn’t train. They tried and gave their best. Fabregas has had three days in bed, they gave everything and that’s important.’

Mourinho was very explicit in his words (I thought he was making a game of words to lead people to believe something he hasn't exactly said) and named that Willian, Oscar, Cesc, Iva and Eden haven't trained since the Everton match.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

I'd rather have Guardi ......oh wait

Judge Jose by the end of season

[Sheva. 5,373]

It's always the same discussion from the same people here, after every big game.

Personally i don't have a 'big' problem with defensive football, this is Mourinho - surely we knew what to expect. And tbf to him, he has delivered some good football in the lesser games at the expense of solidity at the back.

We should be able to create better even while playing defensive though, but we have some average players who Mourinho feels loyal to for whatever reason.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

PSG on the same bracket with Shaktar, Galatasaray and current MU. They're perform really well every time at home, but turn to shit when away.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

Too pragmatic with tactics when it comes to big games, we have not won a big game all season which is a worry

[SpecialistsInFailure 68]

I think early in the second half I saw a straight backline of 6 consisting of Willian - Ivanovic - Cahill - Terry - Azpilicueta - Hazard. What's Willian doing at RB and Hazard at LB? Opposition fans don't sing 'Boring, Boring Chelsea' for no reason. I have no problem if we played like we did away to City last season when we won 1-0. That game we had the perfect balance of defending and counter-attacking football. I love Jose but he is a coward in these games, and so are some of the players which cower away from responsibility. This season we have taken the lead against the following and either drew or lost;

Schalke

City

United

Spuds

City

Bradford

Liverpool

PSG

We even made shitbox teams like Sunderland, Newcastle, Bradford and to an extent Spuds play like a world class team with 100 chemistry.

[Henrique 9,133]

To be honest the debate about defensive vs offensive football some people are trying to create here is nonsensical. Some people are suggesting Mourinho is getting criticized for playing "defensive football". Today Mourinho got his tactics wrong for 90 minutes.

In the 1st half Mourinho clearly was expecting PSG to attack, then he came with a team to counter. But PSG had different ideas. They came with 3 DM, no creative midfielder and 3 strikers and were sitting back expecting a chance to counter attack, thats why we had the ball for most part of the first half, but a mid with Matic-Ramires-Fabregas is not exactly creative, so for the most part of first 45 minutes Matic and Ramires were exchanging balls with our defenders,

PSG were solid at the defense and really dangerous in counter attacking. To be honest the result of the 1st half was unfair, since we created no chances at all.

Losing the match, PSG needed to attack. The team that was supposed to be solid at the defense and deadly counter attacking looked more like a bunch of players that never played together than a team thats is leading the PL by 7 points. Cavani and Ibra destroyed our defense, and its really hard to believe we survived the match with a 1-1 result (a good one after all). The team never had a chance to counter. Despite all the talk about Diego Costa returning, he was more concerned about making silly fouls than playing football. He was 100% useless. Fabregas left the game too late, Cuadrado looked completely out of place attacking and unconfortable playing the role of a second right back and his presence in the game was totally unnecesary.

To be honest, its no about playing offensive or defensive, its about playing solid football. Today the team could not attack and could not defend. Its easy to forgive the team for don't beating big sides in PL when you are 7 points clear at the top of the league, but you can't win the UCL without beating big sides. The UCL performance this season as a whole has been mediocre. I'm not that confident we will reach the next level. Saying we have the lead is a lie. Last season everyone was saying Jose's tactics were amazing and we had a foot in the Final after the 0-0 result in semi-finals first leg, untill the team got completely destroyed in the 2nd leg.

Even if we reach the quarters, I don't know if we are ready to reach the semis again. Mourinho became way too predictable and conservative, and I'm not talking about playing defensive football. Before this match, everybody knew he would come up with Ivan, Terry, Cahill, Azi; Ramires, Matic; Fabregas, Willian, Hazard; Costa. It was clear that, even if 90% of the season the team is Matic, Fabregas; Oscar, Willian, Hazard; Costa, he would never play an away UCL match in knockout stage with that line up. Luis is a better footballer than Azi, Cahill has been a disaster, but of course Jose would not play a defense with Luis and Zouma in such a game, he would favor the line up that have been playing together since last season.

I think this team will win the PL at the end of the season, but I dont fancy the chances in UCL. To win a tournament like PL you must be the most consistent team for the whole season. To win UCL you need something special. I hope we will see something new in the 2nd leg, but I don't hold my breath.

[Jase 43,479]

It's always the same discussion from the same people here, after every big game.

Personally i don't have a 'big' problem with defensive football, this is Mourinho - surely we knew what to expect. And tbf to him, he has delivered some good football in the lesser games at the expense of solidity at the back.

We should be able to create better even while playing defensive though, but we have some average players who Mourinho feels loyal to for whatever reason.

Mourinho certainly likes to play the 'percentage game' a lot in these big away games.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

My only problem with Jose is he doesn't practice counterattacks anymore.

Like Henrique said, he came to the match in the first half expecting PSG to hold possession and we counter but they sat back and the whole tactics was thrown under the bus. Because we can't pass the ball ourselves to create chances when big teams defend, and we can't defend counters like PSG and mancity.

These are aspects of the game that must be practiced:

1. defending counterattacks,

2. Attacking with counterattacks

3. Possession under pressure

Mourinho doesn't practice these 3 aspects of the game and I'm sure of it. We are not good at any of the 3 important aspects of big games and it's getting frustrating.

We can't even press press teams from the front again, so how does he expect us to counter when we stroll around when opposition have possession.

Our weakness is to attack ivanovic and cahill side, but Mourinho won't do anything about it. PSG kept on attacking our right side, that I lost count. The difference between this match and the tottenham match was tottenham scored their chances. Cahill is not a starting material anymore and I was shocked at how bad all our midfielders were at holding the ball under pressure except hazard, Matic and Willian.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

Another realization is our team is not a team that fits Mourinho's tactics. He needs physically strong and athletic people in the midfield, (a midfield trio of Matic, matuidi, sissoko) and a striker that holds the ball under pressure and win long balls like drogba used to be. This current team is terrible at physically holding unto the ball under pressure bar hazard and Matic. Because of this, Mourinho's tactics in big games won't be at full potential. We miss the Matic-luiz combo more than I thought we would

[manpe 10,857]

Annoying thing is this is our strongest team too, NOT A SINGLE INJURY.

Mikel.

[edetarod 2,155]

Nothing new here, Jose going to Jose vs big games and of course the latest excuse (or lie) is "5 players didn't train" to cover for his team's non-footballing performance. Mourinho's one trick pony tactics being exposed again vs a big team who we can't easily beat with just quality alone. He and his marketing team have done a (very) good job branding him as this tactical mastermind when that couldn't be further from the truth. The myth of him being a tactical genius is simply that, a myth. He's very good in defensive organisation and improving players mentally, but he's very weak in the technical aspect of football. He's achieved a lot on those qualities so far in his career, but I'm not surprised he's struggled to put impose his managerial ethos on that Madrid team and to us.

We have regressed so much technically from 4-5 years ago, despite having better players now, so much so that we can't even build attacks anymore, or a play a passing game with any purpose. Against weaker opposition, he simply tells the players to go out and express themselves, with zero technical input. Hazards said that in an interview the other day, some other players like Robben have said something similar about Mourinho's non-existent "attacking philosophy". When we can't rely on our superior players, we're nothing and barring a miracle, I don't see Mourinho being able to win the CL with these group of players. We literally play the worst football in big games of any big team in Europe.

I can't pretend and say I'm not worried about the direction this team is going. Apart from of one or two minor issues, we have all the qualities to be one of the best teams in the world for the next decade at least, but we're never going to fulfill our true potential if we continue to play football like this. That was a disgusting performance. This team is due a hammering, worse than whatever Spurs did to us. That will be a wake up call to Mourinho and to the club. It's not the first time we've gone in at half-time with a positive performance and result and we come out playing like cowards in the 2nd half, scared shitless. Whose fault is that? The players, or the instructions they were given by their manager at half-time? Don't make me laugh.

Mourinho seriously needs to humble himself and consider building up his philosophy and approach, specifically the attacking aspect of it. I was expecting him to do it last summer, but it's obvious he hasn't. If he doesn't, the game will leave him behind. We've already the rise of new managers like Simeone who can do everything Mourinho does in terms of defensive organisation and also better it by improving his team technically. Even in the eyes of his deluded followers, how can Jose advertise himself as the best when he continues to do the same things that failed so woefully at Real Madrid? If he's unwilling to develop his tactics in the summer, then I maintain he's not the right manager to take this particular "profile" of squad to the next level, irrespective of whether we win the league or not. That's a competition in which you don't have to beat the best to be the best, instead you beat the teams you're clearly superior to. In the Champions League, there's no place to hide. Vs the strongest teams, there's no place to hide. It's important to give Jose credit here. We aren't losing many of these games, but neither are we winning any and neither are we showing any evolution in our style of play.

I maintain that we play this way vs big teams because Mourinho doesn't know any other way how. Don't be deceived by the excuses. Lastly and I'll keep this one short. Jose keeps saying he wants to stay at Chelsea for the next decade. That won't happen if he doesn't evolve tactically and if we continue in this manner in the big games. That's not the way Roman assembled this team to play.

"

perfectly summed up

[Tautvix 1,321]

To all people who talking shit about Mourinho: How Bayern played yesterday with the best attacking coach in the world? Did they create a lot? How many shots on target? Shakhtar must have been blown away by best team with the best coach...