The Mourinho Thread

[Hutcho 8,443]

It doesn't matter what he has done... If its down to emenalo or Jose, its Jose all day long... It's not like with jose giving controls we wouldn't be able to scout young talent. We have a great quality young team... What we need is a great manager to lead the team. Jose is that man.

[Fulham Broadway 16,863]

Emanalo has a dual purpose. On the one hand he is a yes man who is ready to kowtow to any whimsical 'roy of the rovers' type transfer that is abramovichs whim. This is the key attribute

He is no threat to any fantasy signing -Rooney, Beckham that Caligula Abramovich might want, he wont challenge it.

On the other hand in his position he can take the credit for the Hazards, Oscars that a whole network of scouts have dug out.

Bottom line the bloke is a recommendation of the slimey toad yesman Grant. Nuff said.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You say tomato, I say tomato. The case made against him uses more facts than the case you make for him. Nefarious appointment by Grant in the first instance, gained appointment without any proven success in any similar role at even the level below ours.

More points? Did you count them because I sure haven't. I also think the word 'nefarious' is unfair and I've pointed out before that Begiristain also came into his position without any experience at coaching or scouting level. But I'm sure you know full well that football is very much a 'who you know' business at times. Did Gullit have experience? Did Vialli have experience? Let's be fair and judge him by the same standards we apply to others.

He's been here since 2007/8, again his successes are notable by their absence, which you've in the most parts not commented on.

He's been in his current position since 2011, which is why I don't give him much credit for the youth team's success.

Why was he sacked? Did he dare to question the value of the non-contributors? Were the acquisitions made latterly in Jose's reign no his. If Ben Haim, Sidwell et al were bought for me, without proper consultation, I'd question it too. The sooner Emenalo goes the better, Forde too - non contributors the pair. Football people in, with ideas and who's dependence on Roman for their own wealth doesn't mean they are simply yes men, and they prevent stupid decisions such as sacking Jose in the first place.

Non-contributors yet you just asked me to define his role. You say football people in, yet Emenalo is an ex-pro who lives and breathes the game. You may argue about the level he played at or the fact he managed a girls team, but to say he isn't a football man seems a little unfair.

That's ignoring the fact that the term 'football people' is at best subjective and fairly meaningless in a grown-up conversation. You've suggested getting Pat Nevin in before when he's previous stint as a director was pretty disastrous, although I'm sure you'll say that he wasn't responsible simply by being present (which is fair).

No aspersions cast, simply a question asking you if you have any insight, that we don't. That may explain you position further. However a common tactic of people loosing an argument is to cry foul, hopefully that's not what you're doing.

I'm not crying foul. I've actually praised you for your maturity in this debate (hope that didn't sound patronising because I truly believe you want what's best for this club).

Unifying presence you say, Emenalo you suggest. He has done nothing to command respect of the footballing side of the club and there's enough out there to suggest he's at best viewed with disdain, at worst mistrusted and held in disregard by the players and coaches. SAF and Wenger wouldn't have him around in any responsible footballing role because he's a know nothing. You wouldn't take me up on a friendly wager and I think we probably know why.

Ferguson wouldn't want ANYONE around at this point. It's a completely spurious point that you keep raising, will all due respect. THEY are the consistent presence at their club. For fuck's sake, they ARE their respective clubs and if you stick on Sky Sports 2 now you can see just how that's working out for Wenger.

They can't sack him because he's so entwined in the club.

I tell you what we need right now, that's someone to bring this fragmented and broken club back together. It's broken because of Roman and his advisors poor decisions, I'm not dumb enough to suggest we bin our owner, but he needs to understand why we're where we are now and begin to correct mistakes. He's almost got to start again and that's why Jose is an ideal choice, most players and mot fans will immediately back him.

I agree that Jose will galvanise the first-team but we also have to look at everything else happening around the club. How well we do in recruitment and development of youngsters will decide what future we have. We need to give Mourinho the right eggs don't we? In that regard we're moving in the right direction.

It's also worth pointing out that we are seriously in for Mourinho - and Emenalo is part of the board, so doesn't he get any credit for that? If he's to bear the burden for the Benitez appointment then what about Mourinho's possible appointment?

I'm no fussed much about whether he stays 3 or more seasons, just enough time to build a squad, a style and as long as he understands the foundation he builds is sustainable. If he stays longer great, if he doesn't so be it.

And then who continues that legacy? This is one of the questions that needs to be asked without people's motives being questioned.

As for recruitment processes - I'll say it again no high degree of skill or acumen is required to recruit Hazard, Mata, Oscar, they're known quantities.

Azpilicueta. Omeruo. Courtois. De Bruyne.

Now I'm sure you know the main people involved in the scouting of those players but let's not pretend he's simply bought from the top table.

If we were getting players through the system into regular first team play since Emenalo had control I'd agree, short answer is we haven't. Arguably our brightest talent - Josh, has gone backwards. Chalobah was here before Emenalo got control, I'd credit the coaches more than him for development.

We have about 20 young players out on loan. Many of those are worthwhile loans, some are phenomenal (Lukaku, De Bruyne, Courtois, Chalobah) and I think he deserves some of the credit for that. Josh is years off being ready because of his physicality and, in my opinion, his mental approach to the game. He hasn't gone backwards, he simply has a different development curve to other players.

He can't go quick enough for me, Jose or no Jose.

Fair enough. But still the questions remain - do we replace him and if we do, who with? Mourinho has been a short-term option at every club he's been at. I intend on supporting this club in 4 years time and I'm sure you do to - what happens then?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Emanalo has a dual purpose. On the one hand he is a yes man who is ready to kowtow to any whimsical 'roy of the rovers' type transfer that is abramovichs whim. This is the key attribute

He is no threat to any fantasy signing -Rooney, Beckham that Caligula Abramovich might want, he wont challenge it.

On the other hand in his position he can take the credit for the Hazards, Oscars that a whole network of scouts have dug out.

Bottom line the bloke is a recommendation of the slimey toad yesman Grant. Nuff said.

Really? Since Emenalo has been in his current role our transfer dealings have been geared towards acquiring younger players who have sell-on value, at competitive transfer fees and on a more sensible wage scale.

Or have I got those facts incorrect? If I have then tell me and I'll take them back. Please, I'd hate to be wrong on this point.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

The question is whether it's Emenalo specifically that he doesn't like, the fact he's apparently close to Abramovich or the idea of having anyone in that role in the first place.

It's all very well bending to his requests and getting rid of certain people, but Mourinho has a tendency of not sticking around for long so what happens when he leaves? Who provides the stability at the top of the club then? If this is true (and it's a big if) then it's not an easy decision by any means.

It is an easy decision, we are just complicating the case.José is the best manager around & know very well Chelsea Football Club & mister Roman Abramovich.He'll come in, build a team & winning mentality, and bring his philosophy, something we lacked since his departure.He left the club in a very good position, we won after him & at that time we had to win titles because the club wasnt "established" as a big european name.This time, i'll not be surprised if the stays more than six/seven years, beacause he is a man with objectives, and his objective is to coach in a club for a long time now.We are in a situation of no-choice really, its him or an average coach with no real future.

" What ever happend to David Moyes? "

We are talking about David Moyes, a good manager that never played Champions League & never had a great team to coach ?

[GodZola 630]

The first thing you have to ask is, is this story credible? My suspicion is that its literally 'paper talk' the gutter press know that Jose likes to be in complete control & are just guessing to try & sell a few more rags.

If indeed there is some truth in it, then with respect to Emanalo, he has to go. I don't know how to credit the guy as like most of us we do not have inside information that he is directly responsible for recent transfer activity & our blossoming youth product & by the same token we cannot hold him responsible for the appointment of Rafa. What we do know is the club finally showed some common sense & changed our transfer policy so that we now purchase younger players with a long future & a potential sell on fee as opposed to ageing players on huge contracts with no chance of a transfer fee. Do we credit the board, Emanelo or both for the change in policy? Lastly didn't I read somewhere that Hidink had/has an advisory role at the club, was he responsible?

As for Jose, well I'm pretty sure he will have his own ideas on how our club needs to progress & will bring in his own people, I understand why fans are worried at his reasonable 'short stays' at clubs but where is he likely to go if he returns? I believe his next job will be his last before he goes into international management, hopefully its with us - just a little reminder, thle last time he was here his side or majority of kept us winning for another 5/6 seasons so my apologies but I'm not losing any sleep over Emanelo leaving.

[Spike 12,049]

Really? Since Emenalo has been in his current role our transfer dealings have been geared towards acquiring younger players who have sell-on value, at competitive transfer fees and on a more sensible wage scale.

Or have I got those facts incorrect? If I have then tell me and I'll take them back. Please, I'd hate to be wrong on this point.

It could just be a coincidence, you know? And they can hardly be facts without definitive proof, I'd call 90%+ of this topic specualtion and assumation.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Most of us are sure that bringing back José is the right decision.Long term ? Why not ? You cant just win all the time, and our position and what the players are showing on the pitch since Ancelotti's second season at the club is disgusting, and Micheal E is not that important, because our buys were obvious.

[Jase 43,479]

Before this completely go off topic, if you guys are going to continue discussing specifically about Emenalo in full extent(seeing some is talking about the Mourinho-Emenalo news today), then please do so in this thread in the link provided.

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/14013-michael-emenalo-technical-director-chelsea/page-2

Cheers.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Most of us are sure that bringing back José is the right decision.Long term ? Why not ? You cant just win all the time, and our position and what the players are showing on the pitch since Ancelotti's second season at the club is disgusting, and Micheal E is not that important, because our buys were obvious.

I think you've just presented an argument against us having any scouts whatsoever, but you have a point. Everyone is my local was talking about Azpilicueta back in 2010.

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

Emanalo has a dual purpose. On the one hand he is a yes man who is ready to kowtow to any whimsical 'roy of the rovers' type transfer that is abramovichs whim. This is the key attribute

He is no threat to any fantasy signing -Rooney, Beckham that Caligula Abramovich might want, he wont challenge it.

On the other hand in his position he can take the credit for the Hazards, Oscars that a whole network of scouts have dug out.

Bottom line the bloke is a recommendation of the slimey toad yesman Grant. Nuff said.

You Can be more subtle...

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Juan Mata, i remember very well on a French forum i said that he would be such a succes because he was great in his last season.

Eden Hazard, no need to explain, best player in France twice.

Oscar : Brazil's number 10, but it was a surprise.

Azpi : Didier Dechamps bought him from Osasuna but had a terrible injury, since then, he was the best RB with Mathieu Debuchy & OM had financial difficulties.

And the list goes on... its obvious that we'll never buy a Sissoko (NCFC) or a Wanyama, a player not very expensive but just fantastic.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Juan Mata, i remember very well on a French forum i said that he would be such a succes because he was great in his last season.

Eden Hazard, no need to explain, best player in France twice.

Oscar : Brazil's number 10, but it was a surprise.

Azpi : Didier Dechamps bought him from Osasuna but had a terrible injury, since then, he was the best RB with Mathieu Debuchy & OM had financial difficulties.

And the list goes on... its obvious that we'll never buy a Sissoko (NCFC) or a Wanyama, a player not very expensive but just fantastic.

Well I think we've found the replacement for Emenalo lads.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Well I think we've found the replacement for Emenalo lads.

I prefer José, he is a bit better than me for this job

[MHL 47 378]

More points? Did you count them because I sure haven't. I also think the word 'nefarious' is unfair and I've pointed out before that Begiristain also came into his position without any experience at coaching or scouting level. But I'm sure you know full well that football is very much a 'who you know' business at times. Did Gullit have experience? Did Vialli have experience? Let's be fair and judge him by the same standards we apply to others.

He's been in his current position since 2011, which is why I don't give him much credit for the youth team's success.

In any argument (I'll use your play on words), the more justifiable points made against rhetoric and suggestion, certainly in my view adds more weight and has a better chance of being more valid. So, yes it's better to have more reasonably argued points. Begiristain, against I'd stated his history and learning process plus his proven success. Gullit and Vialli had the experience of playing at the highest level and working with the best coaches of their day. Mr Emenalo did not and has not.

Nefarious is fair in my view, brought in by the yes man Grant to be his yes man and a set of loyal eyes and ears. Posed no threat because he had even less experience than Grant.

Non-contributors yet you just asked me to define his role. You say football people in, yet Emenalo is an ex-pro who lives and breathes the game. You may argue about the level he played at or the fact he managed a girls team, but to say he isn't a football man seems a little unfair.

That's ignoring the fact that the term 'football people' is at best subjective and fairly meaningless in a grown-up conversation. You've suggested getting Pat Nevin in before when he's previous stint as a director was pretty disastrous, although I'm sure you'll say that he wasn't responsible simply by being present (which is fair).

I'm not crying foul. I've actually praised you for your maturity in this debate (hope that didn't sound patronising because I truly believe you want what's best for this club).

Notts County for parts of a season and a minor league in Africa, I played in the 1st round of the FA Cup once, that almost makes me as qualified as him! Now I'd agree the term football people can mean different things to different people, let's just say he lacks the experience and gravitas to hold such an elevated position at such a prestigious club. An example of a non-footballer who you could class as a football person is a chap who I've also used as an example of someone who would improve us, namely David Dein.

Ferguson wouldn't want ANYONE around at this point. It's a completely spurious point that you keep raising, will all due respect. THEY are the consistent presence at their club. For fuck's sake, they ARE their respective clubs and if you stick on Sky Sports 2 now you can see just how that's working out for Wenger.

They can't sack him because he's so entwined in the club.

You keep spuriously raising SAF and Wenger, I've said in the past where would he get a job in any of the top four sides in the major European Leagues, you wouldn't answer because you know the answer. I've also said neither of them would allow him at those clubs (in my opinion) because he lacks the skills necessary.

I agree that Jose will galvanise the first-team but we also have to look at everything else happening around the club. How well we do in recruitment and development of youngsters will decide what future we have. We need to give Mourinho the right eggs don't we? In that regard we're moving in the right direction.

We have a head of youth recruitment and development, Get a decent DofF in, someone who will pose no threat to the Manager and who is there for continuity purposes, in fact define the role that way Continuity Director.

It's also worth pointing out that we are seriously in for Mourinho - and Emenalo is part of the board, so doesn't he get any credit for that? If he's to bear the burden for the Benitez appointment then what about Mourinho's possible appointment?

Azpilicueta. Omeruo. Courtois. De Bruyne.

Now I'm sure you know the main people involved in the scouting of those players but let's not pretend he's simply bought from the top table.

Firstly Emenalo won't have nothing to do with Jose's appointment, if it happens, It'll be done whether he approves or not. There's only one to four people who'll be involved at the club in that appointment. If he survives it, he'll put up with it because it'll be Romans way or the highway for him. Benitez dealt with Emenalo during his appointment, direct quotes from Benitez. Benitez didn't even meet or talk to Roman until after his appointment. You'll also probably know that Emenalo is becoming increasingly isolated at Cobham.

Of those four players you mention, three of them were full internationals, hardly pulled rabbits out of the hat there! With respect we've not got a first team game yet out of three of the four, so declaring them a success as yet is at best a little bit presumptuous on your behalf.

We have about 20 young players out on loan. Many of those are worthwhile loans, some are phenomenal (Lukaku, De Bruyne, Courtois, Chalobah) and I think he deserves some of the credit for that. Josh is years off being ready because of his physicality and, in my opinion, his mental approach to the game. He hasn't gone backwards, he simply has a different development curve to other players.

Fair enough. But still the questions remain - do we replace him and if we do, who with? Mourinho has been a short-term option at every club he's been at. I intend on supporting this club in 4 years time and I'm sure you do to - what happens then?

Courtois loaned out before he got the job, Chalobah's loan was sorted by Eddie Newton, as was Lukaku. De Bruyne's deal was part of the transfer deal demanded by Bruge. Is Josh a better player now than he was a season and a bit ago? In my opinion, no. Therefore he's gone backwards, if his development is slower than others fair enough. Continual improvement is part of development, he's not improved.

If we got the right man we'd have a path for continuity, we've not got the right men. The more I think about it, the more there's a case for ripping it up and starting again.

Here's a proper Board - Dein, Kenyon, Hiddink, Buck, Roman plus Tenenbaum (he just goes with Roman everywhere anyway).

[BlueLyon 9,359]

I like him a lot but would take him only if he will give chance to young players and play atacking football. He is brilliant tactician and knows everything about defending and counter football, but he is terrible IN MAKING YOUNG PLAYERS BECOME GREAT PLAYERS. Di Maria, Ozil were all established players already, Varane got major role because of Zidane, while only Morata is getting some play time from Castilla players. Carvajal, Sarabia, Joselu, Canales, Rodri should all stay in RM, but Mou sent them away because he didnt give fuck abou them...same will happen to Ake, Chalobah, Feruz if Mou comes...besides we are making new Chelsea, someone younger ala Laudrup, De Boer, Klopp should come...Mou as much I like him, he doesnt suit this chelsea team...

[The only place to be 11,313]

In any argument (I'll use your play on words), the more justifiable points made against rhetoric and suggestion, certainly in my view adds more weight and has a better chance of being more valid. So, yes it's better to have more reasonably argued points. Begiristain, against I'd stated his history and learning process plus his proven success. Gullit and Vialli had the experience of playing at the highest level and working with the best coaches of their day. Mr Emenalo did not and has not.

Nefarious is fair in my view, brought in by the yes man Grant to be his yes man and a set of loyal eyes and ears. Posed no threat because he had even less experience than Grant.

Notts County for parts of a season and a minor league in Africa, I played in the 1st round of the FA Cup once, that almost makes me as qualified as him! Now I'd agree the term football people can mean different things to different people, let's just say he lacks the experience and gravitas to hold such an elevated position at such a prestigious club. An example of a non-footballer who you could class as a football person is a chap who I've also used as an example of someone who would improve us, namely David Dein.

You keep spuriously raising SAF and Wenger, I've said in the past where would he get a job in any of the top four sides in the major European Leagues, you wouldn't answer because you know the answer. I've also said neither of them would allow him at those clubs (in my opinion) because he lacks the skills necessary.

We have a head of youth recruitment and development, Get a decent DofF in, someone who will pose no threat to the Manager and who is there for continuity purposes, in fact define the role that way Continuity Director.

Firstly Emenalo won't have nothing to do with Jose's appointment, if it happens, It'll be done whether he approves or not. There's only one to four people who'll be involved at the club in that appointment. If he survives it, he'll put up with it because it'll be Romans way or the highway for him. Benitez dealt with Emenalo during his appointment, direct quotes from Benitez. Benitez didn't even meet or talk to Roman until after his appointment. You'll also probably know that Emenalo is becoming increasingly isolated at Cobham.

Of those four players you mention, three of them were full internationals, hardly pulled rabbits out of the hat there! With respect we've not got a first team game yet out of three of the four, so declaring them a success as yet is at best a little bit presumptuous on your behalf.

Courtois loaned out before he got the job, Chalobah's loan was sorted by Eddie Newton, as was Lukaku. De Bruyne's deal was part of the transfer deal demanded by Bruge. Is Josh a better player now than he was a season and a bit ago? In my opinion, no. Therefore he's gone backwards, if his development is slower than others fair enough. Continual improvement is part of development, he's not improved.

If we got the right man we'd have a path for continuity, we've not got the right men. The more I think about it, the more there's a case for ripping it up and starting again.

Here's a proper Board - Dein, Kenyon, Hiddink, Buck, Roman plus Tenenbaum (he just goes with Roman everywhere anyway).

We're just going to have to agree to disagree because we're just going round in circles. Personally I think it's too early to judge him but I like what I'm seeing since he took over. You haven't convinced me otherwise and I doubt I'll convince you.

Giving Eddie all the credit for the loan of Lukaku and Chalobah is a little unfair and I suspect it's based on the managers at those clubs. Eddie reports to Emenalo and so it would've been his say so, although it does hint at how many things are in play at the club and how important it is to have someone who co-ordinates it all. If Jose can help build a system that manages that efficiently then it might make sense to get rid of Emenalo (who isn't 'increasingly isolated' as you've suggested - in fact he's probably more powerful than he has been at any other time purely because of Benitez being a short-term appointment) but that has to be a system that can survive without Jose, which is what we have now.

But like I said, we both want what's best for the club we just have different opinions of how that's best achieved.

[Beepu 1,714]

^wow alot of discussions that my eyes got tired haha

I think Jose just wants full control, nothing personal with emenalo. Right now chelsea have no manager but rather first team coach. From what happened in Madrid and Chelsea in the past i think its obvious Jose doesnt want to be given players he didnt choose. I dont know, its a though situation for sure, why not just let the chief scout sign youth players for the academy and file reports of potential first teamers (players in the age of 19+) to the manager (Jose) and he will choose who to sign to fit the system currently used.