Cesc Fàbregas

[manpe 10,861]

Ramires is technically inept and a hothead (at times), however, he is what a mourinho player is....

Hard and tough worker, very physical, fast/quick, willing to go all in for Jose without looking back. Jose never said anything bad about ramires while taking shots at most of the players on Chelsea last season.

It's really easy to see that Jose views Ramires very highly. Unless Chelsea gets someone in his mold, I can't see rambo being benched under Jose.

If there is anything world class that applies to rambo, its his stamina and pace. Something, none of the other cms are particularly known for.

Well, it's only good that we have those options now. Last season we had only one option and it showed. I'm glad Rambo is available for us, but I wasn't glad when he was the only one available.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

I kinda see where Bluelyon is coming from. This is only my opinion, but out of the players we've signed and are rumored to be after, Cesc is the one I'm worried about for a myriad of reasons. I only skimmed the last few pages, so I'm not sure what has been discussed. But part of the reason why I have doubts over this signing is that Cesc hasn't performed consistently over the course of a season for five years now. He tends to start the season brilliantly but then dips drastically around Christmas and it's a pattern that's been happening since 2009.

I also worry because his best form for Arsenal, Barcelona and Spain has come when playing further forward, and I don't think this is something that should be easily disregarded. He did play primarily in a deeper position at Arsenal but in his last two seasons there, he had an advanced role. That was when he put in his best performances and because of that Arsenal fans started calling it "the cesc role".

So not only has he not consistently performed well for a duration of a season for five years but he also hasn't consistently played in a deeper position since 2008/2009 when he was 22 years. He's now 27. The formative years of his professional career has basically been spent playing in an advanced position.

And if you look at the years Cesc played deep, Arsenal were incredibly vulnerable in central midfield. Even when he played beside Flamini, who back then was a workhorse and had an incredible engine, Arsenal were still so easily overrun in midfield. And it's a problem that persisted regardless of who was paired beside Cesc - whether it was Gilberto, Flamini, or Denilson - they were still so weak in that area.

I'm not saying that he won't be good for us playing in central midfield, but I worry that it'll come at the expense of balance and solidity and I worry that we'll be replacing one problem with another. But maybe I'm being overly skeptical. An argument can be made that he'll be playing in a much more defensively organized system than he did at Barca and Arsenal. So maybe his limitations won't be as problematic for us as it was at his previous clubs. You only have to look at J.T's performances under AVB and his performances under Mourinho to see how an organized system can compensate for a player's limitations.

I partly agree. I have my doubts about playing Cesc in the pivot, too. For several reasons:

1) he isn't a patient, "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player. He'll want to go forward and that will potentially expose us and put more pressure on Matic;

2) it might be a waste of his talent. I do think he might work out in the pivot, because he certainly has the experience, ability and vision to be a pass distributor, a deep-lying playmaker, and he isn't completely hopeless in defence, and I think he'll be a much better CM for us than he ever was for Barcelona due to us playing a more direct football, but playing him away from the final third is counterproductive when he has an immense ability to provide the final ball. Seriously, Fabregas is one of the best players in the world when it comes to providing lethal through balls. He must be played in a more advanced position than the pivot to get the best out of him. Saddling a player that has the best vision and passing ability in the team with major defensive work--which is far from being his main strength--could be a massive waste of his talent.

As for his inconsistency in the second half of the season at Barcelona, it's true, and this obviously might be a cause for some concern, but not necessarily. Different team, different league--and hopefully a much healthier work environment. From what I remember, his dip in form at Arsenal has never been as drastic as at Barcelona and had more to do with injuries than anything else. Fabregas's results at Barcelona--both positive and negative--must be taken into account, but I'm not sure how truly they reflect on what kind of player he is. He always seemed like a foreign body in the tiki-taka machine and the work environment was anything but healthy and became downright poisonous towards the end of the season.

These posts from barcelona fans on Barcaforum pretty much sum up Fabregas's experience at Barcelona:

It's all his fault though, don't you see. It's his fault that the club bought him, and that he was out of position nine times out of ten. It's his fault he's being asked to run into through balls when he has no pace and header in Daniel alves "crosses". It's his fault that the club sold thiago and that we had three different coaches and a shit board that didn't buy necessary players. It's his fault that peps specifically asked for him to play in the 3-4-3. That tactic didn't work because of him, not because pep made a crap decision.

He is a big bad monster who came here to ruin Barcelona and make poor little thiago go away. Thiago isn't a mercenary at all, but a good little boy who fucks off to the European champions when he doesn't get his way. If Cesc wasn't playing, we would have won the champions league twice in that time period even though Xavi is spent, our wingers can't score and we have no defence.

My God, this board's absolutely repulsive behavior and idiotic decision making never ceases to amaze me. I honestly can't believe they tried to cover up their spineless initial "farewell" letter. So many backhanded attacks it was amazing...

I have stood by and defended Cesc a lot on here every since he has been here and while yes, he did tend to not do as well as expected in the run in, 80% of that had to do with him being mismanaged. Its impossible to be consistent when you are constantly being thrown into a different position every game. What other player on the squad had to play in as many different roles as he did? No one, Iniesta comes close but he never played as the center forward. Nor has Neymar or Messi played in the midfield 3. All of the ridicule he has gotten from this forum, the fans and the board is ludicrous.

Put yourself in his shoes for a second. He left a club that would literally be willing to throw rose pedals down at his feet anytime he walked on the pitch to join his boyhood club, a club that he has wanted to shine for since a child and he has had to watch win everything, often at the expense of his own team. Once he gets here, he gets three different coaches for three different years (technically four if you wanna count Roura) with a diabolically greedy and aloof board who care only about sponsorships and money. Couple that with a lack of quality reinvestment in the squad with some glaring deficiencies, a lack of tactical continuity, off the field controversies that cause a continual negative atmosphere and the tragedy of losing their former coach and beloved Barca icon, you really couldn't ask for anything worse to come home to.

The straw that broke the camel's back is that he was being used as the scapegoat this time around, and considering how ungodly unfair that is to him after all he's been through and most importantly what he left behind for this, I don't blame him at all for leaving.

Considering all of this, he's been actually amazingly consistent. Despite not suiting the team's style and being played out of position, despite the massive criticism for not being Xavi 2.0, despite the lack of continuity and the lack of a fixed role in the squad, he was consistently one of their best ball providers(in fact, every season at Barcelona he was directly involved in 17-22 goals only in La Liga), and he's consistently one of the best through-ball players in Europe for years. That's some amazing consistency, actually.

So out of all the players we have been linked with, Fabregas is the one that worries me the least. We can be sure that even if he doesn't fit well in our team(unlikely) and plays like shit(very unlikely), he'll still have 15+ goals+assists a season while providing 20+ through balls--and that's realistically the worst-case scenario with him.

The best-case scenario,

In other barcelona fans' words:

FFS I was so afraid that this would happen and it did... mark my words when I say we will regret selling him, he's gonna be a beast at Chelsea and boss the premier league.

I am very sad. I hope you guys will prove me wrong, that by getting rid of Cesc we will be a better team. Just hope one day we won't regret this decision after Cesc has a game of his life performance against us in the CL by scoring a goal or proving a crucial assist, and pointing to his Chelsea badge on his chest.

After all the shit in Barcelona, I think he'll be more motivated than ever.

[LAB 1,030]

I partly agree. I have my doubts about playing Cesc in the pivot, too. For several reasons:

1) he isn't a patient, "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player. He'll want to go forward and that will potentially expose us and put more pressure on Matic;

2) it might be a waste of his talent. I do think he might work out in the pivot, because he certainly has the experience, ability and vision to be a pass distributor, a deep-lying playmaker, and he isn't completely hopeless in defence, and I think he'll be a much better CM for us than he ever was for Barcelona due to us playing a more direct football, but playing him away from the final third is counterproductive when he has an immense ability to provide the final ball. Seriously, Fabregas is one of the best players in the world when it comes to providing lethal through balls. He must be played in a more advanced position than the pivot to get the best out of him. Saddling a player that has the best vision and passing ability in the team with major defensive work--that is far from being his main strength--is a massive waste of his talent.

As for his inconsistency in the second half of the season at Barcelona, it's true, and this obviously might be a cause for some concern, but not necessarily. Different team, different league--and hopefully a much healthier work environment. From what I remember, his dip in form at Arsenal has never been as drastic as at Barcelona and had more to do with injuries than anything else. Fabregas's results at Barcelona--both positive and negative--must be taken into account, but I'm not sure how truly they reflect on what kind of player he is. He always felt like a foreign body in the tiki-taka machine and the work environment was anything but healthy and became downright poisonous towards the end of the season.

These posts from barcelona fans on Barcaforum pretty much sum up Fabregas's experience at Barcelona:

Considering all of this, he's been actually amazingly consistent. Despite not suiting the team's style and being played out of position, despite the massive criticism for not being Xavi 2.0, despite the lack of continuity and the lack of a fixed role in the squad, he was consistently one of their best ball providers(in fact, every season at Barcelona he was directly involved in 17-22 goals only in La Liga), and he's consistently one of the best through-ball players in Europe for years. That's some amazing consistency, actually.

So out of all the players we have been linked with, Fabregas is the one that worries me the least. We can be sure that even if he doesn't fit well in our team(unlikely) and plays like shit(very unlikely), he'll still have 15+ goals+assists a season while providing 20+ through balls--and that's realistically the worst-case scenario with him.

The best-case scenario,

In other barcelona fans' words:

After all the shit in Barcelona, I think he'll be more motivated than ever.

Your 1 2 points are mutually exclusive. That means that if 1 is correct then 2 has no effect and vise versa. Think about it. When we will be playing with a lower table side (there were our main problems last season) that like to park it, he will eventually go forward to aid the attack, so how is this a waste of talent?

If 2 is correct, and it end out being a waste of talent to have him in cm, then how will 1 be true, since he will actually be a "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player? You know what i mean?

Well imo there's not going to be a waste of talent situation, because i think he will be played most when we face lower table teams which means that he will be allowed to move forward and help the attacking AMs and therefore no need to worry about putting pressure on Matic since these teams will not be interested to attack with numbers.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Your 1 2 points are mutually exclusive. That means that if 1 is correct then 2 has no effect and vise versa. Think about it. When we will be playing with a lower table side (there were our main problems last season) that like to park it, he will eventually go forward to aid the attack, so how is this a waste of talent?

If 2 is correct, and it end out being a waste of talent to have him in cm, then how will 1 be true, since he will actually be a "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player? You know what i mean?

Well imo there's not going to be a waste of talent situation, because i think he will be played most when we face lower table teams which means that he will be allowed to move forward and help the attacking AMs and therefore no need to worry about putting pressure on Matic since these teams will not be interested to attack with numbers.

No, not mutually exclusive at all. Fabregas can play as a CM in midfield and he can play as an AM a bit further up the pitch. But I don't think he's the type of CM that is most effective as part of the pivot. He was the most productive for Arsenal when he played a more advanced role. If he plays in the pivot, he will have much more responsibility when it comes to defending and tracking back. A CM in the pivot can't focus only on creating/attacking. He can't go forward too much. It's a more restricted position when it comes to creating than that of an AM. Having Fabregas in the pivot might potentially only expose his weaknesses while taking his time and productivity from what he does best: create and provide the final ball.

I'm not saying he won't work in the pivot--he might; I doubt he will be shit there--but I hope Jose won't repeat Barcelona's mistake and stick him into a position that is not ideal for him. Though playing in the pivot still fits him more than some roles Cesc had to play at Barcelona.

In the end, it's all just speculation. I wish we knew for certain what position Jose bought Cesc for. I'm not at all sure that he intends to play him in the pivot. Who knows, maybe Jose's going to change the formation this season.

[Chelsea? 892]

Whaaaaat? Hazard works far harder in defence than bloody Juan Mata.

Mata under Jose would run all over the midfield trying to make a tackle.

[Spike 12,049]

Mata under Jose would run all over the midfield trying to make a tackle.

I don't recall this ever happening.

[Chelsea? 892]

I don't recall this ever happening.

it did. He wasn't good at it ofcourse and it was quite a sad sight.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Neymar out. Its your time to make it or break it. Oscar will now probably take key role for brazil, we will see how will he control the pressure.

[Jase 43,479]

Neymar out. Its your time to make it or break it. Oscar will now probably take key role for brazil, we will see how will he control the pressure.

Didn't know Fabregas plays for Brazil...

[Spike 12,049]

Didn't know Fabregas plays for Brazil...

Shut up Jason. You know what he means.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Didn't know Fabregas plays for Brazil...

Wrong topic lol

[Jase 43,479]

Spotted at the Wimbledon's final right now..

[didierforever 7,349]

Currently watching the Wimbledon finals.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Spotted at the Wimbledon's final right now..

Frank was watching the women final yesterday as well.

[Pizy 18,538]

Still surreal that he's a Chelsea player.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Daniel1980, on 07 Jul 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. Cesc likes playing the #10--that's what he was in his last year at Arsenal. They didn't let him play there at Barcelona because Messi plays in the centre and they don't use a traditional CAM.

RyanDavidson, on 07 Jul 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

He played as an attacking midfielder for Barca, not Arsenal... he was ruined used there as he was one of the best deep lying midfield players in Europe at the time.

Cesc did play as #10 in 4-2-3-1 at Arsenal in 2010-2011. In 2009-2010, he mostly played as the most advanced midfielder in 4-3-3. Before that, yes, he played as the deep-lying playmaker.

As for Barcelona... My wife is a Barcelona fan, so I had to watch many of their games. Cesc played LM, RM, winger(LOL), centre forward, and of course, false nine. He rarely played centrally as a true CAM behind forwards(they have Messi in the centre and even when they didn't, they used Fabregas as a false nine).

This is one of the few games he was allowed to play more like a CAM at Barcelona:

http://vimeo.com/86228084

Looks like CAM is the position he prefers, though he was good when he played deeper in his earlier seasons at Arsenal. We'll see what position Jose wants him for.

[Milan 17,878]

[Dion 2,476]

I reckon Fabregas should be used in a 4-3-3 interchanging positions dynamically with Oscar depending on the situation or the team we're facing. Let's say we're playing against a side that has a Mata type of player as their cam and a creative player at the pivot, a deep-lying playmaker if you will - in the mold of Pirlo or Xabi Alonso. In this kind of situation it would be wiser to have Fabregas deeper than Oscar, that way he will avoid their pivot which more likely than not are better at defending than their CAM, which is Mata-esque, providing him more time on the ball to make plays and impact the game and at the same time we can use Oscar to shut down their deep-lying playmaker. If we're playing a team that park the bus or doesn't have a particular strong creative player in their pivot than Fabregas would play further up the pitch and so on. The reason why deep-lying playmakers were ever used was to avoid defensive midfielders in the first place, so it makes sense. Besides, Fabregas has some of the best long balls and through balls I have ever seen, he would definitely work fine there.

I also believe Oscar and Fabregas are tactically smart enough to make these transitions or cover for each other seamlessly throughout the match. In the game vs. Colombia, Oscar played almost as a pivot player, covering for players from the back going forward all the time, which means he could cover for Fabregas whenever Fabregas saw an opportunity to bomb forward.

This 4-3-3 would consist of Matic, Fabregas and Oscar in the middle, Hazard, Costa/Ba/Lukaku and Schürrle/Willian upfront. A scary line-up in my eyes.