Tomo 21,751 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Because we have Oscar who is the exact same player as him. This pre-season is worrying because usually a poor pre-season is followed by a poor start to the season.Agreed but im worried about the strength in the midfield. Upto and including the double season we always dominated every game possession and control wise apart from against United, Barca and Arsenal, the last couple of years have been the polar opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francozola 2,040 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Better a draw than a 1-0 loss from a counter-goal.Yes but we shouldn't really be aiming for 0-0 draws should we? But perhaps until our team develops further we might not have much choice. It's laughable that we're suggesting to play defensive football against teams like Brighton and pray for a goal on the break or whatever.And (re: your post [i believe it was you who posted that, forgive me if it wasn't] a few pages back saying that you'd prefer seeing ugly football as long as we got wins) our current team is completely different from Jose's team when we were able to sneak 1-0s with not very attractive football. We had Makelele the rock back then, along with Lamps and Essien in their prime. We're now stuck with Meireles, a past-it Essien, a much older and less capable Lampard. We had Drogba and we now have Torres.There's still a lot of work to be done especially in midfield. Our pathetic midfield affects the whole team. The defense doesn't have as much protection that it should and our attack doesn't have as much creativity and opportunities that it should because of the midfield's complete inability to dictate tempo and possession.We're paying for Roman/the board's refusal to sign replacements for our core group of players and start the rebuilding process in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 @francozola, Spot on about 2008, ive said it so many times, key example is Modric was available for a mere £16m back then, why we let him go to Spurs without even competing for his signature ill never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royg 96 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 IMHO, 4-3-3 is very useful whenever you play pressing game but the problem is after winning the ball everyone is clueless what to do with it. The players are not quick enoguh to pass it and create something from it. What we all witnessed is our players (the brighton game) are not built for this kind of style. It is mostly succesful if we have 3 front players capable of attacking but unfortunately we only have Torres on that department and it is getting predictable.Hazard: Showed he doesnt want to play as a wide player and always drift inside, always out of position. I'm not sure if language barrier is a problem but he's not in sync with other players. Hope he plays the ball and challenge the defenders and not just delaying the ball and let Ashley to run from behind. Take it to the defenders FFS!Lampard: He might be the leading scorer for the pre-season but i would love him to play and stay deep and just distribute the ball. No more (or minmize) late runs please, it will only leads open spaces for opponents to play with. And please pass the ball quickly like what you do during the CL campaign.Meireles: I dont know what to say but he was respectable during our CL campaign and thats it. Probably a last option player for me if we have all our players back to the squad.Torres: Might be the most aggressive player during the game but maybe still lacking the movement to free him up from the defenders. Its either he is shit or the Midfielders are not giving him the service. But honestly he was the best player when he was on field.Luiz: He was rated highly with his discipline on the later part of the season. I'm not sure why he keeps on attacking, maybe because he see lack of movements from the midfield but please! stop (or minmize) those runs and concentrate on defending!Ramires: I agree to most everyone here suggests that he is not built as RW, horrible crosses and just cross it for the sake of crossing, no play intention at all. He could only play as RW if we plan on parking the Bus and take our opponents on counters. Other than that I dont know where we could position him.Overall, We lack the quickness, we are clueless with the ball, most players our out of position and we play without desire. I'm sorry for the travelling fans for getting uninspired game to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capriccioso 2,545 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Yes but we shouldn't really be aiming for 0-0 draws should we? But perhaps until our team develops further we might not have much choice. It's laughable that we're suggesting to play defensive football against teams like Brighton and pray for a goal on the break or whatever.And (re: your post [i believe it was you who posted that, forgive me if it wasn't] a few pages back saying that you'd prefer seeing ugly football as long as we got wins) our current team is completely different from Jose's team when we were able to sneak 1-0s with not very attractive football. We had Makelele the rock back then, along with Lamps and Essien in their prime. We're now stuck with Meireles, a past-it Essien, a much older and less capable Lampard. We had Drogba and we now have Torres.There's still a lot of work to be done especially in midfield. Our pathetic midfield affects the whole team. The defense doesn't have as much protection that it should and our attack doesn't have as much creativity and opportunities that it should because of the midfield's complete inability to dictate tempo and possession.We're paying for Roman/the board's refusal to sign replacements for our core group of players and start the rebuilding process in 2008.We're caught in no man's land. We don't have the attacking firepower to beat teams 4-3, or break down buses. We don't have the defensive stability or 11 players that can bus it, either. Drogba was vital to the bus, and now he's gone. To a lesser extent big game men like Bosingwa were as well but they're hardly irreplaceable. In a defensive context replacing Kalou or Drogba or Ramires with Hazard/Marin/Torres is suicidal.Can we coax Makelele out of retirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francozola 2,040 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 @francozola, Spot on about 2008, ive said it so many times, key example is Modric was available for a mere £16m back then, why we let him go to Spurs without even competing for his signature ill never know.Sigh. Our transfer policy has been ridiculous. Instead of going after someone like Modric that summer we signed the has-been Deco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francozola 2,040 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Luiz: He was rated highly with his discipline on the later part of the season. I'm not sure why he keeps on attacking, maybe because he see lack of movements from the midfield but please! stop (or minmize) those runs and concentrate on defending!Last season we were going for the park-the-bus option and hence it was probably drilled into his head a million times to reduce his forward-runs and keep it simple.We're trying to play some 'proper' football now so your point about him seeing lack of movement upfront is probably correct. I tried to visualize the game from his perspective and it must be hilarious. Most of the players are static. When they get the ball they have 0 ideas on what to do with it. He's just trying to help the team and he has done it successfully before which led to a couple of goals last season like the Leverkusen one, etc.He does have the tendency to make mistakes which irritate me too but to be honest, David Luiz should be the least of our worries. If there was some proper possession play going on infront of him and evidence of creativity he wouldn't see the need to try and make something happen as often as he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capriccioso 2,545 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 David Luiz is far too complex a defender. What happened to the 6 ft 3, shit kicking, hoofball archetype?Bring him back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royg 96 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Last season we were going for the park-the-bus option and hence it was probably drilled into his head a million times to reduce his forward-runs and keep it simple.We're trying to play some 'proper' football now so your point about him seeing lack of movement upfront is probably correct. I tried to visualize the game from his perspective and it must be hilarious. Most of the players are static. When they get the ball they have 0 ideas on what to do with it. He's just trying to help the team and he has done it successfully before which led to a couple of goals last season like the Leverkusen one, etc.He does have the tendency to make mistakes which irritate me too but to be honest, David Luiz should be the least of our worries. If there was some proper possession play going on infront of him and evidence of creativity he wouldn't see the need to try and make something happen as often as he doesHopefully with Marin, Hazard, Oscar and Mata our problem with movement and creativity will be solved. Watching last nights game I see a lot of players strolling around and after they pass no movements at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Franco is spot on about David Luiz, i remember his debut away to Fulham where he was trying to win it at both ends for us by himself, it was embarrassing (on the other players not David). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutcho 8,443 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 We are definately lacking creativity, though our most creative player (Mata) has been missing, what appears to be a great player (Oscar) also hasn't arrived, and Hazard and Marin have only once played together... Marin has always provided something when he plays, and if he can be fit then i really hope he will start alongside Hazard and hopefully Mata and then that will be the most creative (ON PAPER), we will have been for a long time... If we play those 3 and struggle to show something against City then i will be worried... I am not expecting them to smash city or any other nonsense, as the season hasn't started yet, and the Wigan game is far more important imo, but if we can show, quicker build up play, people actually performing thier assignments and some supply getting to torres then that would be good enough for the moment. Imo the preparation for the season is more important than the actual game, so i don't want to see us going completely negative in a trying to hold on to win strategy, because A. it might not work, and B. because this is the last game of which to prepare for the season. So trying to remain solid at the back without being too defensive is key... If we lose we lose, its community shield it won't bother me too much, but if we struggle to compete then i will be bothered.... I personally don't think we will struggle and will be plesently surprised with our performance, and the difference between yesterdays game and a harder game vs city... Though only time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Judging from the pre-season, it's clear that we can't go attack and take games to opponents in every game with the current players. No where solid enough defensively when we have to defend and certainly not helpful enough when we are still crap offensively. Best to revert to counter attacking football whenever necessary and City next week would be a good start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickaaa7 10 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 What was the composition of the previous game? nous avons continuer en 4-1-4-1 ou 4-2-3-1 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,535 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 In a way its better to have a not so great pre season..realise the problems rather then have a brilliant one and when its to late..realise everything aint right. Changes are needed still and hopfully they're made before the season starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chelsea 864 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 error are corrected as the above said better now than when the league is on so not just we the fans have that feeling of urgency but the team management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoSalah 8,886 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Are you talking about the same Lampard who was top scorer for us last season? Are you talking about the guy who nicked the ball off Messi to give Ramires the perfect pass which led to Drogba's goal against Barcelona in Stamford Bridge? The player who assisted Ramires for his goal at the Nou Camp? Without that goal we would've never been in the CL final. Lampard was clearly our best midfielder towards the end of last season. I'm surprised he was able to take 40 touches against Barcelona before creating two of the most vital goals we've scored all season.He wasn't our best midfielder last season mate, did you watch our games? Ramires was clearly the best player in the midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manpe 10,861 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 So people who were gagging for 4-3-3, how'd that work out for you? Not a good game to judge on. We had possibly the worst and slowest possible midfield 3 out there and no real wingers. Ramires is NOT a winger, he can't make high crosses for his dear life (yes I know about his cross to Drogba against Napoli, exceptions happen) and he can't dribble past a player. Cundy was right, he is only effective when he gets the ball in full flight, not when he's static. Hazard didn't look comfortable in that formation.Ideally I would want 4-3-3 tested out with Mikel/Romeu, Ramires and Oscar in midfield and Marin and Mata/Hazard on wings. Playing both Mata and Hazard on wings in a 4-3-3 would be too narrow... Marin, as a natural winger, would provide us some genuine width.The game against Brighton wasn't really an ideal game to judge the formation, it was more of a judgement on the players in that collective, which was not a surprise as it was not different from what we saw regularly last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinol 337 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Based on what ive seen and heard, no top Premiership team have had a good pre season. We just have to keep calm and move on. If we could win CL and the FA Cup with our squad last season then I cant see why we cant win everything this season Be positive guys! But yeah, theres lots of things we have to work on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santiago. 1,500 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If our defensive midfielders actually Check to the ball when our defenders our passing back and forth, they we have our first step back to recovery.We either heal as a team, or die as individuals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidator 5,176 Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I am not normally worried by pre season games and was not bothered that we only won 1 of 3 games on the US tour but lets be honest we were comprehensively beaten by a team a division below us, with our strongest team out. We both start our seasons next weekend so fitness levels is not an excuse. We barely threatened their defence in the second half which is worrying with the players we have in our attack. Whether or not our players were complacent after a guard of honour and everything I don't know (Living off the glories of last season will not be acceptable, I expect 100% effort from all of them regardless of what we achieved last season) but that was an extremely poor performance.I am not normally worried by pre season games and was not bothered that we only won 1 of 3 games on the US tour but lets be honest we were comprehensively beaten by a team a division below us, with our strongest team out. We both start our seasons next weekend so fitness levels is not an excuse. We barely threatened their defence in the second half which is worrying with the players we have in our attack. Whether or not our players were complacent after a guard of honour and everything I don't know (Living off the glories of last season will not be acceptable, I expect 100% effort from all of them regardless of what we achieved last season) but that was an extremely poor performance.1st goal- why is Ivanovic running away from the ball so Cahill has to cover for him?2nd goal- why did Terry not even attempt a tackle or put pressure on the striker and why to him and Cole both go on the line?3rd goal- PLAY TO THE FUCKING WHISTLE!!!! Something I was taught in junior football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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