Oscar

[iseah100 5,612]

Thank god Jose is the manager. If it were up to people on here, Oscar, Willian, Cahill, Ivanovic, Costa, and Cesc would be sold.

[Oscar 441]

Ask any Liverpool fan and they'll tell you.

He was very inconsistent and lacked the end product. He was always a good dribbler but just didn't do anything with it. Now he's performing well week in week out, he's scoring some vital goals as well as setting up a few with some fantastic passes. These past few months he's been Liverpool' best player, when have we said that about Oscar?

Coutinho is still very inconsistent...

Where did you get this idea that coutinho was consistent on liverpool? What end product? He has 4 goals this season and 4 assists in the league...

Oscar has been chelsea best player last season first half and was very good this season first half..

Everytime coutinho does well, it's always the coutinho is consistent nonsense.

[Oscar 441]

Has Hazard REALLY improved though? He had the most open play assists in the PL in his first season & all his "best" goals came that year. I think in terms of consistency yeah but we're seeing less and less "genius" plays from him since Jose arrived. Iconic moments that define a players career.

Hazard workrate/defensive ability has improved. However, his offensive attributes probably didn't, since hazard was already very good in most areas.

[Oscar 441]

Sounds about right, I can't seem to count beyond 2 players

1. Hazard 2. Zouma

How exactly has zouma improved?

According to stats, oscar is the better player..

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Poor Oscar... can't even get the support and backing of his own supporters. I feel for the guy, much like I feel for most Chelsea players who are deemed not good enough at the age of 23. Fortunately for him, Mikel, Ramires, Willian, Brana and whoever else is on the chopping block by so called supporters, its not up to us to make decisions about the club and its needs, our job is to support.

We don't even know what the tactical deployment is of any of the players we see on the pitch but because our egos are sooooo big and because we want to appear like we know sooooo much about football we write a bunch of foolishness we have no clue about and accept it as the team's philosophy or the players deployment. I hate to bust that bubble because I know how fun it is to deduce what the team is playing and what each player's function is but the truth of the matter is we just don't know! And no neither does BBC or Sky Sports! More than half the time they don't even get the formation right!

All the slagging off of how the team plays and what role this player has is at best speculation because none of us know what Jose is trying to do with the team. We all have our ideas about how the team should play but none of us know. So unless We Hate Scouse can get his hands on one of Jose's dossiers that shows who has what role and what responsibility that player has to team shape then we can't really grade a players performance in their assignment, it useless to say "he's the no.10 he needs to be more creative!" What if Jose wants a no.10 who puts pressure on the back four? What we do know is DeBruyne didn't work hard enough for Jose, the same for Mata and also Schurrle. Salah never really got a chance but I assume he fell under the same umbrella. So Jose made decisions he thinks will get his team to play the way he wants them to. It just so happens that team includes Oscar, Ramires, Willian, Mikel... I don't know what else to tell you guys Its clearly working on some level right?

What I've been able to gather is Oscar is a £19.35M squad player who seems to work hard for the team. If Jose wants to be more compact he plays Ramires or Willian, when he wants to play more expansive he plays Oscar. My limited knowledge brought me to this unbelievably short description that I have no way of proving right or wrong. The only thing I have going for me is Jose still has him at the club and has let a fair few go as a result.

I never had high hopes for him to be some sort of a world class star mainly because I knew nothing about him before he came to us, and secondly because he was relatively cheap when you looking at what other players in his position cost.

We are supporters, we support our club and its players. That doesn't mean make up stuff about his ability in order to make him look better than he is, but it also doesn't mean dwelling on his weaknesses and deeming him useless. For me it means accepting the few warts every play has because he wears your badge! And not letting a few games where he's been subpar force you into turning your back on him. Everyone shows support in different ways but I feel this is the bare minimum. Over the years our egos get the best of us, we hold strong to our initial opinion (whether right or wrong) just to appear we know what we're talking about. I say its about time we humble ourselves and go back to being supporters and let go of the know it all approach.

Many won't agree with me but hey, its truly how I feel. If Oscar does well (can't be limited to goals and assists but overall team play) then we win and we're all happy.

UP THE CHELS!

[iseah100 5,612]

Poor Oscar... can't even get the support and backing of his own supporters. I feel for the guy, much like I feel for most Chelsea players who are deemed not good enough at the age of 23. Fortunately for him, Mikel, Ramires, Willian, Brana and whoever else is on the chopping block by so called supporters, its not up to us to make decisions about the club and its needs, our job is to support.

We don't even know what the tactical deployment is of any of the players we see on the pitch but because our egos are sooooo big and because we want to appear like we know sooooo much about football we write a bunch of foolishness we have no clue about and accept it as the team's philosophy or the players deployment. I hate to bust that bubble because I know how fun it is to deduce what the team is playing and what each player's function is but the truth of the matter is we just don't know! And no neither does BBC or Sky Sports! More than half the time they don't even get the formation right!

All the slagging off of how the team plays and what role this player has is at best speculation because none of us know what Jose is trying to do with the team. We all have our ideas about how the team should play but none of us know. So unless We Hate Scouse can get his hands on one of Jose's dossiers that shows who has what role and what responsibility that player has to team shape then we can't really grade a players performance in their assignment, it useless to say "he's the no.10 he needs to be more creative!" What if Jose wants a no.10 who puts pressure on the back four? What we do know is DeBruyne didn't work hard enough for Jose, the same for Mata and also Schurrle. Salah never really got a chance but I assume he fell under the same umbrella. So Jose made decisions he thinks will get his team to play the way he wants them to. It just so happens that team includes Oscar, Ramires, Willian, Mikel... I don't know what else to tell you guys Its clearly working on some level right?

What I've been able to gather is Oscar is a £19.35M squad player who seems to work hard for the team. If Jose wants to be more compact he plays Ramires or Willian, when he wants to play more expansive he plays Oscar. My limited knowledge brought me to this unbelievably short description that I have no way of proving right or wrong. The only thing I have going for me is Jose still has him at the club and has let a fair few go as a result.

I never had high hopes for him to be some sort of a world class star mainly because I knew nothing about him before he came to us, and secondly because he was relatively cheap when you looking at what other players in his position cost.

We are supporters, we support our club and its players. That doesn't mean make up stuff about his ability in order to make him look better than he is, but it also doesn't mean dwelling on his weaknesses and deeming him useless. For me it means accepting the few warts every play has because he wears your badge! And not letting a few games where he's been subpar force you into turning your back on him. Everyone shows support in different ways but I feel this is the bare minimum. Over the years our egos get the best of us, we hold strong to our initial opinion (whether right or wrong) just to appear we know what we're talking about. I say its about time we humble ourselves and go back to being supporters and let go of the know it all approach.

Many won't agree with me but hey, its truly how I feel. If Oscar does well (can't be limited to goals and assists but overall team play) then we win and we're all happy.

UP THE CHELS!

Awesome post. Only Jose and the team know their "philosophy" Mou is a genius when it comes to football and tactics and I don't care how much people on here know and how many technical terms they know they don't even touch how much Jose knows.

And on Oscar, not sure why people expect him to be the best #10 in the world, he was cheap and relatively unknown when we got him, but he's good enough, for now. Trust Jose, he knows more than us.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Awesome post. Only Jose and the team know their "philosophy" Mou is a genius when it comes to football and tactics and I don't care how much people on here know and how many technical terms they know they don't even touch how much Jose knows.

And on Oscar, not sure why people expect him to be the best #10 in the world, he was cheap and relatively unknown when we got him, but he's good enough, for now. Trust Jose, he knows more than us.

Pretty much what I've been trying to get across. We're basically using limited knowledge and calling it fact and force feeding our opinions as the teams philosophy upon each other.

[iseah100 5,612]

Pretty much what I've been trying to get across. We're basically using limited knowledge and calling it fact and force feeding our opinions as the teams philosophy upon each other.

That's the problem. The fact that a lot of people on here try to make their tactical beliefs and what Chelsea do seem like a fact is frustrating. But that's the internet for you.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Has Hazard REALLY improved though? He had the most open play assists in the PL in his first season & all his "best" goals came that year. I think in terms of consistency yeah but we're seeing less and less "genius" plays from him since Jose arrived. Iconic moments that define a players career.

Hazard has clearly improved. Compare his workrate and movement to when he first arrived.

Before he would always pass the ball and stand in one place, now he makes runs into the box and that's how many of his chances/goals have come.

Open play assists doesn't mean much because Hazard still creates as much as anyone in the PL, just that people miss more often now. And the only good option to create for is Costa.

Unlike his first season when Mata and Lamps were on fire.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Most of his assists in his first season were for Torres actually.

Again he's improved defensively and is much more consistent than in his first season but offensively he's virtually still the same player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g1hs-Cxjno

I think under someone like Pep, Rodgers, Wenger or Ancelotti his all round game could be improved on even further. At Lille he used to be their main playmaker and then really the quality of his general passing was visible (even more so than his dribbling ability). Hazard plays differently a little differently now, more efficiently in terms of passing percentages but takes less risks and chances.

His passing is good but he isn't creating chances on that scale or even the likes of ,KDB, Ozil and Cesc.

Goalscoring wise, he's improved a bit but not significantly. His long range shooting has actually become much worse and he still doesn't make enough runs into the box.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Most of his assists in his first season were for Torres actually.

Again he's improved defensively and is much more consistent than in his first season but offensively he's virtually still the same player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g1hs-Cxjno

I think under someone like Pep, Rodgers, Wenger or Ancelotti his all round game could be improved on even further. At Lille he used to be their main playmaker and then really the quality of his general passing was visible (even more so than his dribbling ability). Hazard plays differently a little differently now, more efficiently in terms of passing percentages but takes less risks and chances.

His passing is good but he isn't creating chances on that scale or even the likes of ,KDB, Ozil and Cesc.

Goalscoring wise, he's improved a bit but not significantly. His long range shooting has actually become much worse and he still doesn't make enough runs into the box.

The thing is, because we're not a possession style team, hazard touches the ball less than other teams.

For example, Ronaldo can afford to try to shoot from distance everytime because he knows he'll get the ball again very soon. But since we average 55% possession and even 43% against big teams, it means hazard sees the ball 20-30 times less than other attacking players so he has more chances to miss, more chances to dribble, more chances to assist.

Edit:

I don't know if you understood what I meant

[illmatic 901]

It's not a blame of Mourinho that this guy don´t make any difference, his only blame is to put him in a big matches when is clear that this guy don't contribute a lot. He is young? Yes, but with the enough age for make any difference on the field. He is not enough for be headline in team like Chelsea and Less in a big games.

[Barbara 15,149]

But but but but but Coutinho can't tackle and does not track the goalkeeper

I am not a fan of either Oscar or Willian, but to say that they lack skill is not fair IMO. Willian's ball control is immaculate. Both are capable of backheel assists and exceptional strikes and all that fancy bullshit you expect from Brazilians. They just don't do it effectively and on a consistent basis. They lack the determination and grit to impose themselves on a game, even if they have shown they can on occasions.

you made me laugh so hard with that

priceless. cheers, mate

[Reddish-Blue 2,356]

Pretty much what I've been trying to get across. We're basically using limited knowledge and calling it fact and force feeding our opinions as the teams philosophy upon each other.

I thought the whole point of any forum was to call your opinion a fact and share it amongst each other...

[Barbara 15,149]

I thought the whole point of any forum was to call your opinion a fact and share it amongst each other...

I don't think an opinion should be turned into a fact anywhere, not even a forum, because those are very two different things.

Why not handle opinions like opinions? I don't think anyone even made a fact out of an opinion regarding Oscar...

There's a common understanding among most members of this forum, and that's fine, but I don't see anyone claiming it's a fact.

Opinions turned to facts are more Fabregas' situation... it is a fact he's a big game chocker and second half of season flop for many people here. It's not even their opinion, they simply inherited it from Barça fans. That's when I think people turn opinions into facts and that's problematic to me no matter the context, the place and the general understanding.

As for Oscar, is just an overwhelming agreement about his status and position at Chelsea.

[termninja 5,290]

I feel Italy would suit Oscar really well. An exchange deal for Pogba would be brilliant for us. And it actually seems possible honestly.

[Jase 43,479]

I feel Italy would suit Oscar really well. An exchange deal for Pogba would be brilliant for us. And it actually seems possible honestly.

No offence but think people are overly optimistic if they believe the likes of Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG etc would want to buy Oscar. We have been moaning for ages about his deficiencies and weaknesses and suddenly people think others would be interested in him? Pretty sure those big clubs are not blind and can see the problems with him as well.

[LAM09 6,783]

No offence but think people are overly optimistic if they believe the likes of Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG etc would want to buy Oscar. We have been moaning for ages about his deficiencies and weaknesses and suddenly people think others would be interested in him? Pretty sure those big clubs are not blind and can see the problems with him as well.

I think Juve could go after him if they lose Pogba. He has age on his side to improve and become more consistent.