Oscar

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

You have just described Fabregas game in the last couple of months... And he's not 23...

Did we do any better lately when Oscar did not play? Do we improve when he's taken off? I just don't see anyone else doing much better.

You make reasonable points in this post as well as in your previous one.

My own view is that while Oscar is not good enough to be our ten he is nevertheless the best one we have; i.e. everyone else is worse. This explains why he is selected more often than some would like. My guess is that Jose gets fed up with him and makes up his mind to try something else. Trouble is that after a while the boss gets even more fed up with something else.

As for why Oscar might seem to attract more criticism than others, I think there are two reasons. One of those reasons is that his under performance has been going on for three years but I think it has more to do with the second reason. A lot of people have been very supportive of Oscar, tried hard to believe the tiredness excuse and hung in there hoping to see improvement. Now that more and more of them feel forced to give up on Oscar their reaction is similar to what happened with Torres. In the end some of the loudest voices criticising Nando were the very same ones who had supported him the most in the beginning. It goes that way sometimes.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

You'd be lost for words by Jose refusing to drop his favourites and refusing to acknowledge that rotation is important? You must be left speechless every match

The simple truth, or so it seems to me anyway, is that our squad is very shallow. We are so short of quality that, except at the back, we have no opportunity to rotate without significantly weakening the side. Jose has made it clear that he'd like to rotate but does not feel he can.

[The Chels 2,502]

The simple truth, or so it seems to me anyway, is that our squad is very shallow. We are so short of quality that, except at the back, we have no opportunity to rotate without significantly weaken the side. Jose has made it clear that he'd like to rotate but does not feel he can.

Well whose fault is that? The bench players were pretty much all bought by Jose (and with a lot of money). Zouma, Luis, Remy and Cuadrado all deserve chances to start.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,776]

Well whose fault is that? The bench players were pretty much all bought by Jose (and with a lot of money). Zouma, Luis, Remy and Cuadrado all deserve chances to start.

You could be right. I've allowed myself to believe that he wasn't the instigator for some of these moves. Maybe I believe it just because I want to, but it is true to say that Jose has spoken at great length about why he wanted Costa, Fab & Matic. On the other hand he didn't have as much to say about others. At least not to the same degree anyway. Might this be a clue? Could be I suppose.

Certainly it's a reasonable guess that JM didn't buy Willian, given the history of that deal and the boss admitted that Schurrle's capture was arranged before he returned.

P.S. The squad was criminally shallow when Jose came back. At the time I felt we needed to recruit 8 players of the right quality to even make ourselves competitive. We have taken some steps in the right direction but there is still work to be done. Mind you I did also say that I didn't think the squad rebuild could be done quickly. 8 top class players that are available, and available to us, is a lot.

[The Chels 2,502]

You could be right. I've allowed myself to believe that he wasn't the instigator for some of these moves. Maybe I believe it just because I want to, but it is true to say that Jose has spoken at great length about why he wanted Costa, Fab & Matic. On the other hand he didn't have as much to say about others. At least not to the same degree anyway. Might this be a clue? Could be I suppose.

Certainly it's a reasonable guess that JM didn't buy Willian, given the history of that deal and the boss admitted that Schurrle's capture was arranged before he returned.

Hmm I reckon Willian is almost certainly a Jose player - we had so many AMs before he signed so I don't think the board would have bought him without Jose specifically asking for the transfer.

I also think the early signings from last summer were all ones that Jose wanted and had listed in the dossier he gave to the board. That was Courtois, Cesc, Costa, Tiago (apparently), and Luis but he has completely mis/under-used the latter. It might be true about Remy and Cuadrado though, that they're not really players he wanted but he sanctioned the deals given that we had to replace an outgoing player (Torres and Schurrle).

Either way I believe that Jose has mismanaged the squad. Overusing certain players has almost certainly been one of the reasons for our recent poor form. Today's match was a perfect example. There was no reason for there to be so little rotation - Zouma and Luis (and arguably Cuadrado/Remy) deserved to start but Jose is fixated with this particular starting 11.

[didierforever 7,349]

Where do people come off saying that oscar is our best option for a no.10. Like fuck he is.

Can't remember which game but recently willian played a game as a no.10 and BOSSED IT!!!! Against man city last year, played as a no.10 and BOSSED IT!!! Almost every oppurtunity willian has got to play in his natural position (there have not been many), he has been good. Its time for people to stop giving stupid excuses and accept the fact that oscar is not good enough.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

This place depresses me.

Same loud minority slating the player when the entire team struggled.

How can it be so difficult to understand that the team is struggling... That if players don't get into good positions (for whatever reason) it makes difficult to find them. Same thing that people are saying about hazard applies to all other mids including Oscar.

No Oscar is not doing enough to help team at the moment - it happens - and other players are in the same or similar slump atm.

He was abysmal today, no if ands or buts about it. I still love him but todays performance is inexcusable... The people who want him out of the club will be barking loudly today, not just in 24pt font size either.

Willian, Oscar and Fabregas have been well off the pace for some time now and its becoming a bit of a concern. We aren't creating any chances and that's coming down to those three players not doing enough in attack. This is an Oscar thread so expect to hear how poor he was when you visit it...

My only allegiance is to the badge, Oscar, for whatever the reason, hasn't been up to snuff lately and something has to give. He is still a decent buy for the quoted price of 19.35m but having said that he still needs to do more than run about. He's not even making a nuisance of himself anymore, not getting stuck in. When he plays like that his offensive deficiencies are less of an issue, because his work rate is helping the team keep shape. When we don't get that from him he has a negative impact on the team.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Where do people come off saying that oscar is our best option for a no.10. Like fuck he is.

Can't remember which game but recently willian played a game as a no.10 and BOSSED IT!!!! Against man city last year, played as a no.10 and BOSSED IT!!! Almost every oppurtunity willian has got to play in his natural position (there have not been many), he has been good. Its time for people to stop giving stupid excuses and accept the fact that oscar is not good enough.

what are you calling 10?? We played 4-3-3 that game.

And the fact that you think Willian has bossed any game speaks volumes about this agenda you seem to be on. Willian hasn't bossed one game he's been at for Chelsea... He's done well but by your definition of a '10' doesn't he need to score and create opportunities to score?

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

You could be right. I've allowed myself to believe that he wasn't the instigator for some of these moves. Maybe I believe it just because I want to, but it is true to say that Jose has spoken at great length about why he wanted Costa, Fab & Matic. On the other hand he didn't have as much to say about others. At least not to the same degree anyway. Might this be a clue? Could be I suppose.

Certainly it's a reasonable guess that JM didn't buy Willian, given the history of that deal and the boss admitted that Schurrle's capture was arranged before he returned.

One could only guess, sadly. But what we know :

1. Schurrle. His transfer was plotting in 2011 before he moved to Leverkusen. We were close in 2012 but there was promise from Leverkusen sporting director that he sign here next summer. Also he started to learn English months before the move to Chelsea.

2. Willian. Also transfer was on the table in AVB's days. He didn't show up for training in Shakhtar in January 2013 to force the move to Chelsea. Eventually he moved to Anzi, but they later had financial problems following summer and we offered a help.

3. Remy. Stop gap, who had a cheap release clause. A reaction to Torres departure, just like Ba was to Sturridge.

4. Cuadrado. Well, Mourinho said that he knows much about him since he's followed him since his managerial career at Inter. He said that Cuadrado will be good here, because he knows him very well. Rather his signing but maybe he was simply asked to give a green light to this transfer just like in Schurrle case, when it was clear that Reus is gonna stay in Dortmund.

5. Zouma. A player who Mourinho spoke on the phone and convinced him to join here so rather his signing.

6. Fabregas. Mourinho talked to him at length privately, also spoke how they decided that they need creativity in midfield. His signing.

7. Diego Costa. Mourinho type, move plotted in the spring at the same time when Jose said that we're going to sign a real striker in the summer. His signing.

8. Matic. 100% Mourinho signing. He admitted that in Chelsea TV interview last year, that he watches Portuguese League very often and he has seen Matic in many many matches and convinced the board to sign him.

9. Filipe Luis. I don't know. We were interested in many players for that position : Moreno, Rodriguez, Shaw, Alex Sandro. Does Filipe was his choice or simply was the easiest obtainable ? Rather the second.

10. Salah - stop gap of course.

Schurrle + Willian + Remy + Filipe + Salah - a players not directly through his idea

Zouma + Fabregas + Diego Costa + Matic - through his idea

Cuadrado 50/50

[The Chels 2,502]

One could only guess, sadly. But what we know :

1. Schurrle. His transfer was plotting in 2011 before he moved to Leverkusen. We were close in 2012 but there was promise from Leverkusen sporting director that he sign here next summer. Also he started to learn English months before the move to Chelsea.

2. Willian. Also transfer was on the table in AVB's days. He didn't show up for training in Shakhtar in January 2013 to force the move to Chelsea. Eventually he moved to Anzi, but they later had financial problems following summer and we offered a help.

3. Remy. Stop gap, who had a cheap release clause. A reaction to Torres departure, just like Ba was to Sturridge.

4. Cuadrado. Well, Mourinho said that he knows much about him since he's followed him since his managerial career at Inter. He said that Cuadrado will be good here, because he knows him very well. Rather his signing but maybe he was simply asked to give a green light to this transfer just like in Schurrle case, when it was clear that Reus is gonna stay in Dortmund.

5. Zouma. A player who Mourinho spoke on the phone and convinced him to join here so rather his signing.

6. Fabregas. Mourinho talked to him at length privately, also spoke how they decided that they need creativity in midfield. His signing.

7. Diego Costa. Mourinho type, move plotted in the spring at the same time when Jose said that we're going to sign a real striker in the summer. His signing.

8. Matic. 100% Mourinho signing. He admitted that in Chelsea TV interview last year, that he watches Portuguese League very often and he has seen Matic in many many matches and convinced the board to sign him.

9. Filipe Luis. I don't know. We were interested in many players for that position : Moreno, Rodriguez, Shaw, Alex Sandro. Does Filipe was his choice or simply was the easiest obtainable ? Rather the second.

10. Salah - stop gap of course.

Schurrle + Willian + Remy + Filipe + Salah - a players not directly through his idea

Zouma + Fabregas + Diego Costa + Matic - through his idea

Cuadrado 50/50

I'd agree with most of this except for a couple. I think Willian was a Mourinho signing because even if we had shown interest in him previously, when he did sign we were already saturated with AMs (De Bruyne, Mata, Oscar) so there was no need for him unless Jose specifically asked. Also Luis knew he was coming here before the CL final even took place. If he was just one of the options and not one of the players Jose definitely wanted then I doubt the deal would have been closed so early. I think he was a Jose signing but given how little he plays you wouldn't have guessed it.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Just play a 4-3-3 and get rid of our 10 role, loan out Oscar to Spanish league to get some technical skills and use Cuadrado for another year while our very own Traore develops. If Thorgan becomes as good as his brother then we can always get him back

Unless we can get Isco then where is any improvement? We should put some faith in our loanees for once.

[DYC. 7,542]

You could be right. I've allowed myself to believe that he wasn't the instigator for some of these moves. Maybe I believe it just because I want to, but it is true to say that Jose has spoken at great length about why he wanted Costa, Fab & Matic. On the other hand he didn't have as much to say about others. At least not to the same degree anyway. Might this be a clue? Could be I suppose.

Certainly it's a reasonable guess that JM didn't buy Willian, given the history of that deal and the boss admitted that Schurrle's capture was arranged before he returned.

P.S. The squad was criminally shallow when Jose came back. At the time I felt we needed to recruit 8 players of the right quality to even make ourselves competitive. We have taken some steps in the right direction but there is still work to be done. Mind you I did also say that I didn't think the squad rebuild could be done quickly. 8 top class players that are available, and available to us, is a lot.

Why? Not every buy is going to work out, that's part of the game.

[didierforever 7,349]

what are you calling 10?? We played 4-3-3 that game.

And the fact that you think Willian has bossed any game speaks volumes about this agenda you seem to be on. Willian hasn't bossed one game he's been at for Chelsea... He's done well but by your definition of a '10' doesn't he need to score and create opportunities to score?

Etoo

Hazard-willian-rambo

Matoc-luiz.

That was our formation on the day with william along with one of our Dms doubling on yaya whenever he got the ball. It was a 4-2-3-1.

Willian is not a direct goal threat. But if u read carefully I ridicule the point that there is not "supposedly" a better option than oscar in this squad which is a LOL opinion that only oscar lovers ( sadly that includes jose) have.

There is not a single thing that oscar gives us that willian can't. And surprisingly enough willian can put together 2 succesful passes unlike oscar.

Ps - agenda. oscar fans never seem to disappint. Atleast most of them are off "he is tired", "he is young", he has potential". All those were fun to read.

[Liquidator 5,176]

In 2012 I predicted he would become a better player than Eden Hazard. With the help of my friends and family I have since been able to overcome my crack addiction

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Etoo

Hazard-willian-rambo

Matoc-luiz.

That was our formation on the day with william along with one of our Dms doubling on yaya whenever he got the ball. It was a 4-2-3-1.

Willian is not a direct goal threat. But if u read carefully I ridicule the point that there is not "supposedly" a better option than oscar in this squad which is a LOL opinion that only oscar lovers ( sadly that includes jose) have.

There is not a single thing that oscar gives us that willian can't. And surprisingly enough willian can put together 2 succesful passes unlike oscar.

Ps - agenda. oscar fans never seem to disappint. Atleast most of them are off "he is tired", "he is young", he has potential". All those were fun to read.

You can call it whatever you want but the fact is we played a 4-3-3 with Rambo leaking out on the right to join counters. That's pretty much how we play all the time on the counter. Its no secret that in big games Jose likes to keep the midfield compact. But I digress its a muted argument that I doubt you will see the light of so lets just move on.

"There's not a single thing that Oscar can give us that Willian can't"? Ummmmm what? in his time with Chelsea Willian has scored 8 goals in 76 games. 18 goals in 87 games. Wiliian has had 10 assists and Oscar 20...

For his career Oscar has averaged more than 2 tackles a game to Willian 1.4. You must be sniffing glue if you think these two players are even close to comparable in production. I like Willian a lot but lets not pretend his contributions to the squad have been anywhere near as much as Oscar's.

The truth of the matter is Oscar, Willian and Cesc have all been poor in 2015 and we've struggled as a result.

[didierforever 7,349]

You can call it whatever you want but the fact is we played a 4-3-3 with Rambo leaking out on the right to join counters. That's pretty much how we play all the time on the counter. Its no secret that in big games Jose likes to keep the midfield compact. But I digress its a muted argument that I doubt you will see the light of so lets just move on.

"There's not a single thing that Oscar can give us that Willian can't"? Ummmmm what? in his time with Chelsea Willian has scored 8 goals in 76 games. 18 goals in 87 games. Wiliian has had 10 assists and Oscar 20...

For his career Oscar has averaged more than 2 tackles a game to Willian 1.4. You must be sniffing glue if you think these two players are even close to comparable in production. I like Willian a lot but lets not pretend his contributions to the squad have been anywhere near as much as Oscar's.

The truth of the matter is Oscar, Willian and Cesc have all been poor in 2015 and we've struggled as a result.

so you are telling me that willian dint play thru the center and as a no.10 against city? Wow.. don't know what match u saw.

These goals and assists that u talk of, are they any like the ones against newcastle? Where he taps in a goal made up by willian and iva? Don't think willian got an assist for that. Also, we don't rwally need a 25 mil player to tap in and play horendous all through the game. Or maybe those goals and asists are like against swansea where he got 2 goals and an asist but has done NOTHING for us. And when I say NOTHING, I mean nothing. Passing hold up play, defensive play... NOTHING. So you see, I would take a couple of fewer goals if its means our player can string 5 passes together would being afraid that oscar might lose the ball, AGAIN.

I would love to see all of his "tackles" and which area of the pitch they are made. Are these tackles anything likebthe one he made in the first spurs goal? Willian is a far better player to do the defensive bull work than oscar is. The amount of times willian is down on the wing savong iva's ass is proof of that.

Oscar has had his chanceS (capital S). Too many if u ask me. Its been 3 years of excuses(and stupid ones at that). Its time someone else gets a real shot at it. Both willian and cesc are awesome candidates and better than oscar and should without a dount be given a clear go.

[borriske 330]

In 2012 I predicted he would become a better player than Eden Hazard. With the help of my friends and family I have since been able to overcome my crack addiction

That's no excuse

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

so you are telling me that willian dint play thru the center and as a no.10 against city? Wow.. don't know what match u saw.

These goals and assists that u talk of, are they any like the ones against newcastle? Where he taps in a goal made up by willian and iva? Don't think willian got an assist for that. Also, we don't rwally need a 25 mil player to tap in and play horendous all through the game. Or maybe those goals and asists are like against swansea where he got 2 goals and an asist but has done NOTHING for us. And when I say NOTHING, I mean nothing. Passing hold up play, defensive play... NOTHING. So you see, I would take a couple of fewer goals if its means our player can string 5 passes together would being afraid that oscar might lose the ball, AGAIN.

I would love to see all of his "tackles" and which area of the pitch they are made. Are these tackles anything likebthe one he made in the first spurs goal? Willian is a far better player to do the defensive bull work than oscar is. The amount of times willian is down on the wing savong iva's ass is proof of that.

Oscar has had his chanceS (capital S). Too many if u ask me. Its been 3 years of excuses(and stupid ones at that). Its time someone else gets a real shot at it. Both willian and cesc are awesome candidates and better than oscar and should without a dount be given a clear go.

Like I said before its very hard to say exactly what the shape was since we played mostly on the counter anyway. But having said that I still for the life of me don't see where in that game Willian "bossed it" If my memory serves me Matic was MotM with Luiz playing an integral role and Hazard in scintillating form. I'm still struggling to find where the phrase Bossed it and Willian meet?

you seem to suffer from short term memory let me help you with that.

I must've miscounted too Oscar has 30 goals for Chelsea in less than 3 yrs...

And anyone who actually watches Chelsea play regularly and don't have some wack agenda against Oscar can tell you he gets stuck in way more than Willian does. To compare the two in that regard not only shows how little you've actually been paying attention but also how terribly biased you've become in your tirade.

Oscar is by no means the article when you think of a 10, he has warts, but discrediting his contributions to the squad show you either have a shallow IQ for the game or that you can't set aside your ego and judge a player objectively. I know which category you fall under and its pretty sad... I guy who usually has decent things to say about football can't set his ego aside online.