Oscar

[Jase 43,479]

Maybe not as good, but better than here. Thats my point. And as I cant even assert that as fact (it was just opinion realy), you said in next sentence that Kdb would do better than Oscar here with same game time which is impossible to predict either.

Im sure he would have greater stats and influence, but could end up kinda like Mata. Team could hurt because of that too.

My whole point of post was to give him some more time, we dont always need to buy buy buy.

Give Oscar more time? 3 1/2 seasons not enough?!

Oscar should be feeling thankful that somehow he's been given so much trust, time and patience in the team. Other players have been shown out of the door almost immediately the minute they started putting in few poor performances. They weren't even afforded the same level of trust, time and patience to improve and get better while people like Oscar have been enjoying that luxury (and probably even abusing it himself).

[robsblubot 3,502]

Give Oscar more time? 3 1/2 seasons not enough?!

Oscar should be feeling thankful that somehow he's been given so much trust, time and patience in the team. Other players have been shown out of the door almost immediately the minute they started putting in few poor performances. They weren't even afforded the same level of trust, time and patience to improve and get better while people like Oscar have been enjoying that luxury (and probably even abusing it himself).

Well that's one theory - that he's lucky to be here. Howerver the evidence - his many starting xi appearances as well the new deal - suggest otherwise. Is it not more logical to just assume there something Oscar does that pleases both the club and the manager? You all may disagree with Jose, but that's not going to change much.

Concerning kdb, obviously he wasn't doing much in training. Remember some comments by Jose alluring to that.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Well that's one theory - that he's lucky to be here. Howerver the evidence - his many starting xi appearances as well the new deal - suggest otherwise. Is it not more logical to just assume there something Oscar does that pleases both the club and the manager? You all may disagree with Jose, but that's not going to change much.

Concerning kdb, obviously he wasn't doing much in training. Remember some comments by Jose alluring to that.

One famous example for you to prove that appearances don't really matter - on a player you really don't like as well - John Obi Mikel.

[robsblubot 3,502]

One famous example for you to prove that appearances don't really matter - on a player you really don't like as well - John Obi Mikel.

First I am not the one who claim to know more than the professionals working at the club.

Second, mikel does not start often, and reckon it's one of his low seasons in terms of minutes. Oscar does start a lot though. If mikel record of wins increases then I say keep him on the team - my opinion would have been wrong then.

So all I have as evidence is fans opinions and personal preferences for players who play in different leagues or for guys like continuo who a month ago was a reserve.

[Barbara 15,149]

I think Mourinho regressed in many things the last couple of years. Keeping and selling players hasn't been one of those.

In my opinion Schurrle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cuadrado, maybe not technically or as a player, but in a fitting way. Still a lot of people here think otherwise, so I might just be wrong and you, as well as Mourinho, see something on Cuadrado that I haven't yet.

The club doesn't normally give contract renewals in the middle of the season. Still, we gave it to Oscar. He probably got a salary raise and why would be that? While some might think that like Madrid did with Varane - was just to get a better price for him when he does indeed leave in a transfer window or two, I think the opposite (in both cases, unfortunately as I really wanted Raphael here), both clubs decided to make sure their players don't feel tempted to go elsewhere and made it harder for other clubs to come sniff their players.

When Cesc and Costa are back in the side, Oscar's mediocre presentations are sort of diluted, less important and have a minor direct impact. Our defense on the other hand has been influencing directly in some draws/losses we had. I can't pinpoint how much is because of Mourinho's coward approach (or pragmatic as some would call it) once we're leading 1x0, or if the defense is just vulnerable, regardless of our behavior. If I had to bet though, I'd say a mix of both.

What I mean to say is that the club and the manager either believe Oscar has a future here that Kevin, André, Mata and or others wouldn't have or they think that we could win everything we aim to with Oscar here. I know that's pretty hard to digest for some of you - who can't stand him since day one or not anymore - but that's also the reality, so deal with it.

Cahill on the other hand, could be in a different situation. Despite being English, I don't feel he has much support. We went for Zouma with the clear idea of getting him in the first team, otherwise he'd be loaned like many other youngsters we signed. Whether he'd get there this season, the next or take a couple of years, would depend on his own evolution, but it was clear from the beginning that José had plans for him in the club and would try to develop him here and not elsewhere.

Oscar is in the same situation, so while many will bitch about his presence, blame him for everything, call him the weak link and everything else we read on this thread, the club and the manager so far think otherwise. They're willing to wait more before having a final verdict on him (or maybe they already have a final verdict, which for your sorrow, nightmare and desperation, could be that he's here to stay). And this (patience, deeper evaluation and more information) is what separates fans from professionals anyway. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I've always thought attacking wise Kevin was much fitting to our style than Mata. I'd pick Kevin over Mata overall any day of the week, but there was something about his attitude that Mourinho didn't want to have in the club.

Mourinho makes no excuses for the choices he makes, he doesn't need to lie to justify his actions, especially towards a little Belgian talent he decided to let go. If he said there wasn't enough commitment in the training sessions, and that he had attitude issues and went as far as sending him to train with the youth team, is because he really disliked something about Kevin and didn't think he'd fit. He made no excuses for letting go of the double winner of Player of the season, he just did it, which was much bigger, controversial (if you want to look it that way) than letting go of a 23-yo that wasn't nearly as buzzed by people as he's been now. He's the manager, he may and have been making mistakes imo, but not regarding signing and buying players. I can predict whatever I want about Cuadrado, there's no fact there yet and won't there any time soon as he needs to be given time. It seems like Schurrle wanted to leave, more than we wanted to let him, at least that's what I gather from his recent interviews and it seemed to have already reflected on his game, as he assisted a goal today and had one of the most beautiful shots hitting the post for that first Kevin goal... a happy player can produce much better than a sulking one.

So as long as the club or Mourinho see Oscar as Chelsea material (now or in the future) we can bitch as much as we want, but he won't be going anywhere. I felt the same way you do about Ramires and Willian, but during my endless rants about both I've always admitted that I was talking to a brick wall and that I knew the club would keep both. I even predicted a contract renewal coming to Willian - for my completely desperation - but that hasn't come yet. So let's cry rivers, make players' threads even longer, but we should all beware, if those players haven't left yet, they won't be leaving any time soon. I'm positive we rejected bids for Oscar and Ramires already (can't take a guess on Willian though). Also, clubs - and agents - can let others know backstage when they want to sell a player and that's when bids come even more often. So yeah, he's not going anywhere, no matter how much people bitch about it. And it's nice for once being on the 'winning' side. I've been campaigning for a few of our players to leave at least the starting eleven, I didn't need another case.

[The Skipper 20,593]

First I am not the one who claim to know more than the professionals working at the club.

Second, mikel does not start often, and reckon it's one of his low seasons in terms of minutes. Oscar does start a lot though. If mikel record of wins increases than I say keep him on the team - my opinion would have been wrong then.

So all I have as evidence is fans opinions and personal preferences for players who play in different leagues or for guys like continuo who a month ago was a reserve.

Mikel, when he was younger and around Oscar's age, played loads. He was an integral part to Ancelotti's title winning CFC. That was my point.

[robsblubot 3,502]

Mikel, when he was younger and around Oscar's age, played loads. He was an integral part to Ancelotti's title winning CFC. That was my point.

Fine I just don't know what it has to do with Oscar.

Mikel gas not improved the way the club expected him to. That ship has sailed for mikel but it hasn't for Oscar.

We are just going in circles.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Mikel has not improved the way the club expected him to. That ship has sailed for mikel but it hasn't for Oscar.

My point exactly. I can see the exact same happening to Oscar.

[Barbara 15,149]

Fine I just don't know what it has to do with Oscar.

Mikel gas not improved the way the club expected him to. That ship has sailed for mikel but it hasn't for Oscar.

We are just going in circles.

It's simple, really, Oscar's stay is getting on people's nerves. I know the feeling all too well, it's frustrating. As I said, for once I'm happy not to be bothered by a player that is clearly staying. It could change in a season or two, but as of now, I think Oscar is clearly staying in the club, even if he's displaced from the starting eleven. Much like the Mikel situation who stayed forever and ever. Either people make peace with it, or they will get tired of bitching. I know I got tired of bitching about Mikel, Willian and Ramires. Actually Ramires may have gained my support this season. Willian still has a long way to go. But at the end of the day, my feelings about players matter all but nothing.

Also, if Mikel stayed for so long is because the club likes him. He had had ups and downs in terms of starting for us. If the same happens to Oscar, will just prove even further that the club wants him to stay. If Mikel had not developed enough to stay, he would have left like many others did. In terms of personality profile, he and Oscar have a lot in common. They don't affect dressing rooms, they quietly accept what's given to them, they don't complain, they're nice people and they're very committed and obedient to what managers ask them to do without creating a fuzz about it. That's why Mikel stayed. He was useful for some situations to all those endless managers we had and was a good 'employee' let's say. Oscar may be in the same route (I'm not comparing them technically or further, just their utility and possible career within the club)

[robsblubot 3,502]

My point exactly. I can see the exact same happening to Oscar.

Wow reckon you could make a lot better use of those superpowers...

So you claim to see something that all coaches at Chelsea cannot, including Jose? Call me skeptical, but if you really do, you ought to be working in the business instead of chatting on tc.

[Reddish-Blue 2,345]

Wow reckon you could make a lot better use of those superpowers...

So you claim to see something that all coaches at Chelsea cannot, including Jose? Call me skeptical, but if you really do, you ought to be working in the business instead of chatting on tc.

I was a youth development coach in the past and from what I've seen, Oscar is nothing more than a squad midfielder. He'll have some really good games and then he'll go missing in the second half of the season due to whatever reason

I can see why Jose is keeping him in the team, he offers defensive cover for Cesc and he doesn't seem to be the type that complains

[Oscar 441]

My point exactly. I can see the exact same happening to Oscar.

And when Andre is banging in goals left and right at wolfsburg and getting his created chances stats and assists at a better rate than Hazard next season, will you say the same thing?

[robsblubot 3,502]

I was a youth development coach in the past and from what I've seen, Oscar is nothing more than a squad midfielder. He'll have some really good games and then he'll go missing in the second half of the season due to whatever reason

I can see why Jose is keeping him in the team, he offers defensive cover for Cesc and he doesn't seem to be the type that complains

That's one of the problems right there: unless you are there in training what you see isn't really that much - but you already know that. Really good games and go missing - isn't that typical of youngsters?

Have you perhaps considered that all that defensive work he is told to do by his manager may be preventing him from showing more in attack? Players have only so much energy. We don't really know what he is instructed to do, but my point (and others) is that he seems to be doing what he's been asked to do... Hence the starts and the new deal.

[The Skipper 20,593]

And when Andre is banging in goals left and right at wolfsburg and getting his created chances stats and assists at a better rate than Hazard next season, will you say the same thing?

That's stupid because I don't measure players performances by stats, I actually watch them play. Hazard is one of our key players. Oscar is not. Hazard is pretty much irreplaceable, Oscar isn't.

Me not rating Oscar as much as I used to anymore has nothing to do with KDB, the KDB example was brought up by someone and I simply elaborated on it.

[The Skipper 20,593]

But my point (and others) is that he seems to be doing what he's been asked to do... Hence the starts and the new deal.

Can you not apply this same sentence to Mikel a few years back?

[robsblubot 3,502]

Can you not apply this same sentence to Mikel a few years back?

Hey if you want to see mikel pattern of development in Oscar I cannot stop you.

Now if you are trying to convince me of it, then sorry, I say your evidence (that they are the same) is very very thin and you are missing tons of info only the coaches there have.

[Oscar 441]

That's stupid because I don't measure players performances by stats, I actually watch them play. Hazard is one of our key players. Oscar is not. Hazard is pretty much irreplaceable, Oscar isn't.

Me not rating Oscar as much as I used to anymore has nothing to do with KDB, the KDB example was brought up by someone and I simply elaborated on it.

Actually, it's not. Hazard is a crucial player to the squad as is Oscar. You say hazard is irreplaceable, but oscar isn't. However, chelsea looks a lot different when oscar doesn't play. You can see the huge difference, however, it could be due to the fact its always Mikel coming in to replace him...

Obviously, Oscar needs to improve, however, Oscar to me sacrifices a lot for the team the same way he sacrificed himself a lot so Neymar could benefit from it...

Oscar doesn't have the dribbling ability that either willian and hazard possesses, which is why a ton of people keep saying he can't play big games, however, by that thinking, Cesc should be replaced as well for ramires.

[LAM09 6,744]

Same story with him yesterday. I personally think he could be getting the chomp instead of Willian, if Juan earns a first team place.