Eden Hazard

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Meanwhile Jose praises 'Magic' Hazard.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/06/26/4915491/magic-hazard-will-get-even-better-for-chelsea-says-mourinho?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

[Styles 9,790]

I know forum is all about discussion/debates but how is it, without fail, that this thread always somehow turned into the same repetitive/redundant 'Hazard vs Neymar vs Bale vs Ronaldo vs Messi' discussion?

The comparison is made because the grass is always greener on the other side. If Hazard wasn't our player we'd have a 40000 page transfer thread begging for his signing.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Anyone know why he stopped taking set pieces?

[mtowle182 79]

Anyone know why he stopped taking set pieces?

This. Used to hit some nice ones in France. When he was on the field and david would be taking fk's it made me livid.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Goals aside, Ronaldo can be most frustrsting and least team player out there...as soon something isnt going to the plan, he is terrible.

Last year vs Bvb, this year vs Atletico, he just dribbles and doesnt realy gets past anyone and then in frustration shoots from everywhere...

On his day he is unplayable and scores shitload of goals, but one of worst team players in history. Even fucking Nani got past few opponents against Germany, while Ronaldo wasted ball again and again...not to speak of his freekicks; takes 50 atempts to score one..

[Tomo 21,733]

The comparison is made because the grass is always greener on the other side. If Hazard wasn't our player we'd have a 40000 page transfer thread begging for his signing.

until we were actually strongly linked then Kagawa will be better.

[Beigl 1,387]

Don't forget the fact that whereas Hazard played most of his Chelsea career alongside an useless Torres.I bet he would have almost twice as many goals and assists if he would play with a competent striker on his side,altough his numbers are still very,very good,considering his age.

Next season he will excell with Fabregas and Costa in the team.

[Beigl 1,387]

Don't forget the fact that Hazard played most of his Chelsea career alongside an useless Torres.I bet he would have almost twice as many goals and assists if he would play with a competent striker on his side,altough his numbers are still very,very good,considering his age.

Next season he will excell with Fabregas and Costa in the team.

[Beigl 1,387]

Don't forget the fact that Hazard played most of his Chelsea career alongside an useless Torres.I bet he would have almost twice as many goals and assists if he would play with a competent striker on his side,altough his numbers are still very,very good,considering his age.

Edit: Sorry for triple-post. --> Tapatalk.

Next season he will excell with Fabregas and Costa in the team.

[nono 791]

To me, he is more talented than Ronaldo, Bale and Neymar. Ronaldo is a better footballer, but Hazard is more talented. He is a kind of player whose presence on the pitch by itself alters the game, even if he isn't involved. You can't say that about those other players. They have the end product that Hazard doesn't have, but he is only 23.

[Barbara 15,149]

I had to double check if I was still on Hazard's thread as it went pages and pages without his name mentioned.

I don't like to compare players, I say it all the time and like Jason I don't get why we keep comparing, but I agree and disagree about a lot of things that were said individually about some players here.

I'll start with our player, of course. I really don't know if Hazard is better as a LW or a CAM at Chelsea. With his dribbling ability and how the play is much more physical in England than in Spain - where Messi plays more centered, maybe Hazard suits better in the wing - which normally is less populated - than in the middle. If we see 2-3 and even 4 players surrounding him in the wing, how many are we going to see through the middle? Belgium is a completely different story and maybe he's better as a #10 there. Actually I'd need a streak of matches of him playing as a #10 for us to have a proper answer. A lot of people here talk about his potential as fact - which is a big lie. And that's my second point about him. When we compare Hazard with any of those players, sometimes I feel we're comparing the potential rather than the reality - although we're using the other players' reality instead of potential to make the comparison. Fact is - and that's not an opinion - his last goal scored for us that didn't come from a penalty was in February 6th (or some other day in the first week of February). I hate the chances created stats - because it's a big lie - but if people want to use that, be my guest, but you can't use that to compare him to other players, when other players have more goals and assists. It's like intentions - in Brazil we say hell is filled of good intentions. Chances created is all but good intentions, but at the end of the day what counts is assisting and scoring and some matches have different weights. Hazard lacked there, but that's absolutely okay. The same way I defend Oscar for being inconsistent, I defend Hazard for not fulfilling his full potential because they're too young. They're entitled to disappoint our expectations because let me tell you something, many times our expectations aren't fair and sometimes even attainable because we all look to their potential, but we forget they're still under development. So yeah, unfair and sometimes unattainable. But I feel like Hazard gets a lot of slack (not comparing to anyone) because he's a dribbler. People are saying he's criticized because he doesn't score and scorers are more forgiven and have more spotlight than players who assist, but dribblers have the same compared to hard workers or to players with less flair. Hazard is cut a lot of slack simply because his game is more beautiful, but still is far from as effective as it could be. So we have people forgetting he's 23 and people overlooking the many matches he does nothing effectively because he has 130942039434 dribbles per match.

If there was one person that cursed Bale's fee it was me and I even said many times RM didn't even need him. I was partially proved wrong. He's still not worth 100M, but RM did need him and even if he had scored only a handful goals (although he did way more than that), when RM needed him the most he gave the assist or scored the goal. Tap in or not, he was at the right place, at the right time and he didn't disappear or chocked at the big games. That's a winner trademark and he seems to have it. I do agree he's not the most talented. Among all names I read here - Hazard, Cris, Messi, Neymar, Robben, Ribery - Bale is definitely the most limited talent wise, but don't deny his determination to win and his hard work. If Hazard worked half as hard as Bale does - and sorry if it hurts and upsets some of you, I'm not stating this as a fact, but solely as my opinion - he would have at least 50% better numbers than he does. Still Bale is nowhere near Messi and Ronaldo. Nobody is. No matter the numbers, no matter how important the goals and the assists were in the most important games of them season; I agree with whoever said that ever since Messi and Ronaldo people changed the standards. Sorry to disagree with many again, but scoring 30-40 goals a season and 15-25 assists isn't the norm, isn't the standard, that's an exception created by two of the best players of the history of the football who fortunately for us - were born in the same generation. That's not the bar, that's not raising the bar, that's having a bar of their own, no one else should be compared to that or expected to have nearly as good numbers.

I don't know why so many people discredit Neymar so much on this forum. And again I'm not comparing him to Eden or anyone else. The kid - and he's also only 22 - is a prodigy. You can't seriously blame him for a less than spectacular season at a fading Barcelona when everything in that team was a mess. I do think Messi will get in the way of his growth there - Neymar is the kind of guy that is supposed to be the team's star and he said so many times when joining Barça that he was there to help Messi continue to being the best in the world, but that's not a role he can fulfill at his full potential. He's better than that and he didn't realize how much he took away from his game - consciously or unconsciously - to keep propping Messi. And then there were also the many problems Barça had and Neymar going through transition and why not - thinking about the world cup. So we can accuse Oscar of doing it - consciously or not we'll never know - but Neymar didn't? Neymar has much more responsibility and pressure on his shoulders than Oscar has to lead Brazil to win a WC in their own soil. The boy is 22 and he 'only' has this in his shoulders: make a less than talented Brazilian generation win a title at home in the most desired tournament in the world. It's almost unfair to him.

What I feel is that a lot of people want him to fail and do badly. Some because he's Brazilian - and yeah, maybe not here (or maybe even here) some people hate that Brazil continue to produce little geniuses - some because they want our own little genius to be better than him, some because they hate Barcelona and some maybe even gratuitously, but I'll tell you what, you're in for a big deception. The kid has the same will to win I mentioned about Bale and he may not work as hard (although he works very hard too), but he's absolutely thirsty to win and he has one of the best mentalities among all those names we've mentioned. Of course, I hate his diving ways and it will only get worse while he plays for Barcelona, but many of you are undermining and underrating a player that will make you eat yourown words. Maybe he won't be as big as he could be somewhere else because of Messi, but I have no doubts he'll be immense for them; Messi or no Messi.

And for me it doesn't really matter if he's better than Hazard or Hazard is better than him or Bale is better or worse than either of them. As a Brazilian, of course I want Neymar to reach his full potential, as a Chelsea fan I also feel the same for Eden and I want Bale to succeed for as long as he is at Real Madrid - but even if I wasn't any of those, I would want those young players to reach the heights of their games. Although Messi won many more Balon D'Ors than Cris did, it didn't take away how absolutely wonderful Cris is. The same will happen between those three young players. It doesn't matter who will win more Balon d'Ors - we may be lucky to have yet another chance to watch two very gifted players (I'm excluding Bale from the talent bracket - but talent isn't the only factor, so I won't diminish him completely) in the same generation at Hazard and Neymar and for the good of football - which I'm a big fan of - I hope they live up their potential and we have guys like them filling up - partially - the void that Messi and Cris will leave when the descending years of their careers are here. I feel blessed and privileged to have watched Zidane, then Cris and Messi and hopefully Eden and Neymar. Not everything has to be a competition - it's quite the privilege to watch Nadal and Federer, Messi and Cris, LeBron and Bryant in the same generations, I actually wish there were more of them spread in the teams, rather than less.

[nono 791]

We were so close to getting Neymar as well, for substantially less than what Barcelona paid. I remember Pele came out in the media and said he shouldn't go to England. Hazard + Neymar + Modric ! It's the ones that got away that always leave me thinking of what could have been lol. On the flip side though we also missed out on duds like Robinho.

[Dion 2,476]

And for me it doesn't really matter if he's better than Hazard or Hazard is better than him or Bale is better or worse than either of them. As a Brazilian, of course I want Neymar to reach his full potential, as a Chelsea fan I also feel the same for Eden and I want Bale to succeed for as long as he is at Real Madrid - but even if I wasn't any of those, I would want those young players to reach the heights of their games. Although Messi won many more Balon D'Ors than Cris did, it didn't take away how absolutely wonderful Cris is. The same will happen between those three young players. It doesn't matter who will win more Balon d'Ors - we may be lucky to have yet another chance to watch two very gifted players (I'm excluding Bale from the talent bracket - but talent isn't the only factor, so I won't diminish him completely) in the same generation at Hazard and Neymar and for the good of football - which I'm a big fan of - I hope they live up their potential and we have guys like them filling up - partially - the void that Messi and Cris will leave when the descending years of their careers are here. I feel blessed and privileged to have watched Zidane, then Cris and Messi and hopefully Eden and Neymar. Not everything has to be a competition - it's quite the privilege to watch Nadal and Federer, Messi and Cris, LeBron and Bryant in the same generations, I actually wish there were more of them spread in the teams, rather than less.

What about Ronaldo? Ronaldo and Zidane were to their era what Cris and Messi are nowadays. It's no coincidence that Ronaldo and Zidane consider each other the best players they've ever played with. We'd be lucky if Eden and Neymar could fill their shoes.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

I'll start with our player, of course. I really don't know if Hazard is better as a LW or a CAM at Chelsea. With his dribbling ability and how the play is much more physical in England than in Spain - where Messi plays more centered, maybe Hazard suits better in the wing - which normally is less populated - than in the middle. If we see 2-3 and even 4 players surrounding him in the wing, how many are we going to see through the middle?

Well you're right that there is less space in the middle but as a player you can be a lot more dangerous in the middle as once you get past your main marker you can immediately run at the central defence or take a shot on goal. (and you also have more options to pass to the side)

I think it's a possibility to play Hazard centrally but he then needs to have someone playing on the nr 8 position that can find him in tight spaces and the general passing tempo of the team would have to be higher.

Messi is able to attack the centre so efficiently because Barca stretch the play extremely well, move the ball quick and have players that can find him in tight spaces.

With Mourinho's system i would just leave Hazard on the wing. Like i said in my post a couple pages back. Just get an attacking left back that can overlap and support Hazard so Hazard can move away from the side and that way counter the double marking.

I hate the chances created stats - because it's a big lie - but if people want to use that, be my guest, but you can't use that to compare him to other players, when other players have more goals and assists. It's like intentions - in Brazil we say hell is filled of good intentions. Chances created is all but good intentions, but at the end of the day what counts is assisting and scoring and some matches have different weights. Hazard lacked there, but that's absolutely okay. The same way I defend Oscar for being inconsistent, I defend Hazard for not fulfilling his full potential because they're too young. They're entitled to disappoint our expectations because let me tell you something, many times our expectations aren't fair and sometimes even attainable because we all look to their potential, but we forget they're still under development. So yeah, unfair and sometimes unattainable. But I feel like Hazard gets a lot of slack (not comparing to anyone) because he's a dribbler. People are saying he's criticized because he doesn't score and scorers are more forgiven and have more spotlight than players who assist, but dribblers have the same compared to hard workers or to players with less flair. Hazard is cut a lot of slack simply because his game is more beautiful, but still is far from as effective as it could be. So we have people forgetting he's 23 and people overlooking the many matches he does nothing effectively because he has 130942039434 dribbles per match.

The chances created stat isn't a big lie. Yeah you shouldn't just take the number of chances created and think they're all clear cut chances and tap ins. However that doesn't mean you should just dismiss it.

What you should take from the chances created stats is this : Hazard creates a lot of dangerous situations. yes they don't always result in ccc or assists but it's still proof of his superior ability to create goals.

Don't really get why you're comparing hardworkers with dribblers that score goals or create chances. Hardworkers aren't as rare as players who can take out 2-3-4 players in a flash and create chances or score goals.

Scoring goals or creating chances while being able to dribble multiple defenders are more valuable abilities then hardworkers.

Not saying hardworkers aren't important to have in your team. You need hardworkers but they aren't as special and should therefore receive less "spotlight"

In modern football where all teams are able to put down an organised defense, players that can take out multiple defenders are extremely valuable. Odd how dismissive you are of that skill.

. If Hazard worked half as hard as Bale does - and sorry if it hurts and upsets some of you, I'm not stating this as a fact, but solely as my opinion - he would have at least 50% better numbers than he does. Still Bale is nowhere near Messi and Ronaldo. Nobody is. No matter the numbers, no matter how important the goals and the assists were in the most important games of them season; I agree with whoever said that ever since Messi and Ronaldo people changed the standards. Sorry to disagree with many again, but scoring 30-40 goals a season and 15-25 assists isn't the norm, isn't the standard, that's an exception created by two of the best players of the history of the football who fortunately for us - were born in the same generation. That's not the bar, that's not raising the bar, that's having a bar of their own, no one else should be compared to that or expected to have nearly as good numbers.

Sorry but that's just a ridiculous statement to make and i'm getting quite tired of hearing the argument that Hazard is lazy, cause let's face it that is what you're calling him.

I think you're talking more about the difference in character then their workrate on training.

Yes Hazard has a more laid back character then the other players we've compared him to but i consider that as much an advantage as a disadvantage. He's less likely to choke under pressure and he's also a lot less egotistically driven as the other players we've compared him to. Which makes him a better teamplayer.

Honestly i really doubt he's working only half as hard as Bale. Hazard played 50 games this season, playing in a system that utilised a high pressing game. He also had to help out defensively and track back while when recovering the ball, counter attack which means sprinting 50-60 yards every time he joins the attack. Not once did he complain of fatigue or had cramps or whatever that would prove that he's not working hard on training.

The reason why i compared Neymar to Messi and Ronaldo was because Rom said he had no doubts Neymar was a player that could reach the same level as them. I disagreed with that and compared the numbers of Neymar to that oof Messi andd Ronaldo. I agree with what you're said.

They're in their own league and shouldn't be considered the norm.

I don't know why so many people discredit Neymar so much on this forum.

What I feel is that a lot of people want him to fail and do badly. Some because he's Brazilian - and yeah, maybe not here (or maybe even here) some people hate that Brazil continue to produce little geniuses - some because they want our own little genius to be better than him, some because they hate Barcelona and some maybe even gratuitously, but I'll tell you what, you're in for a big deception. The kid has the same will to win I mentioned about Bale and he may not work as hard (although he works very hard too), but he's absolutely thirsty to win and he has one of the best mentalities among all those names we've mentioned. Of course, I hate his diving ways and it will only get worse while he plays for Barcelona, but many of you are undermining and underrating a player that will make you eat yourown words. Maybe he won't be as big as he could be somewhere else because of Messi, but I have no doubts he'll be immense for them; Messi or no Messi.

I think a lot of the discrediting has to do with the hype and the overrating that Neymar has. I mean yes every flair dribbler is a bit overrated and has more hype then he should have but with Neymar it takes ridiculous proportions which gets extremely annoying.

I said before that even when he was playing in the Brazilian league he was already being mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo. A lot of people consider him the third best player in the world which he simply isn't. I think that's why a lot of people try and counter that by underating him then. (Bit similar to the extreme hate and extreme love Torres gets from fans)

Well i said Bale and Neymar would be + 25 goals 10-15 assists in the next seasons. So i do rate them. Just not as much as some people do.

And for me it doesn't really matter if he's better than Hazard or Hazard is better than him or Bale is better or worse than either of them. As a Brazilian, of course I want Neymar to reach his full potential, as a Chelsea fan I also feel the same for Eden and I want Bale to succeed for as long as he is at Real Madrid - but even if I wasn't any of those, I would want those young players to reach the heights of their games. Although Messi won many more Balon D'Ors than Cris did, it didn't take away how absolutely wonderful Cris is. The same will happen between those three young players. It doesn't matter who will win more Balon d'Ors - we may be lucky to have yet another chance to watch two very gifted players (I'm excluding Bale from the talent bracket - but talent isn't the only factor, so I won't diminish him completely) in the same generation at Hazard and Neymar and for the good of football - which I'm a big fan of - I hope they live up their potential and we have guys like them filling up - partially - the void that Messi and Cris will leave when the descending years of their careers are here. I feel blessed and privileged to have watched Zidane, then Cris and Messi and hopefully Eden and Neymar. Not everything has to be a competition - it's quite the privilege to watch Nadal and Federer, Messi and Cris, LeBron and Bryant in the same generations, I actually wish there were more of them spread in the teams, rather than less.

Fully agree. Cheers to that.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

I know I know but don't people get tired of discussing the same old thing every single time?

Well judging by the evidence in this thread i'd have to say... no...

[Madmax 9,219]

...

Bloody hell. How many Gatorade bottles do you go through before sitting down to post?

[Barbara 15,149]

Well you're right that there is less space in the middle but as a player you can be a lot more dangerous in the middle as once you get past your main marker you can immediately run at the central defence or take a shot on goal. (and you also have more options to pass to the side)

I think it's a possibility to play Hazard centrally but he then needs to have someone playing on the nr 8 position that can find him in tight spaces and the general passing tempo of the team would have to be higher.

Messi is able to attack the centre so efficiently because Barca stretch the play extremely well, move the ball quick and have players that can find him in tight spaces.

With Mourinho's system i would just leave Hazard on the wing. Like i said in my post a couple pages back. Just get an attacking left back that can overlap and support Hazard so Hazard can move away from the side and that way counter the double marking.

That's why I said I'd need a streak of matches with him there to have a better idea or even an opinion. I liked him centered the times I saw him playing like that for Belgium, but I don't think 'his' problem at Chelsea playing in the wing is actually his - is the team's - more especially the fullbacks. He needs people approaching him to offer him escapes and more possibilities, many times he's isolated...

The chances created stat isn't a big lie. Yeah you shouldn't just take the number of chances created and think they're all clear cut chances and tap ins. However that doesn't mean you should just dismiss it.

What you should take from the chances created stats is this : Hazard creates a lot of dangerous situations. yes they don't always result in ccc or assists but it's still proof of his superior ability to create goals.

Don't really get why you're comparing hardworkers with dribblers that score goals or create chances. Hardworkers aren't as rare as players who can take out 2-3-4 players in a flash and create chances or score goals.

Scoring goals or creating chances while being able to dribble multiple defenders are more valuable abilities then hardworkers.

Not saying hardworkers aren't important to have in your team. You need hardworkers but they aren't as special and should therefore receive less "spotlight"

In modern football where all teams are able to put down an organised defense, players that can take out multiple defenders are extremely valuable. Odd how dismissive you are of that skill.

I don't like this particular stat - never has and never will because there's too many shit in the middle of what they consider a chance created. Basically it's all passes before someone attempts to the goal, no matter how long before the pass was done and how much the player dribbled, ran, passed by opponents before shooting. That's giving too much credit to what many times is simply a pass.

You misunderstood my main point here though - as well as in the section below. What I meant is chances created are good intentions. Whether they're missed because they weren't that much of chances, because the player who shot missed it and didn't capitalize it's nearly irrelevant and only good intentions whereas goals and assists are unquestionable and decisive. Even if they're tap ins... for a player to net a tap in first he needs to be well positioned - that's his merit - second he needs to have good timing, also his merit - and third not be named Fernando Torres - which is his luck. So what I meant is whereas chances created - even if they mask a lot of things - is nice, it isn't the real deal and you can't compare a player that created less chances but have better goals/assists stats to a guy that contributed effectively less to the team's success, but created a ton of supposedly chances. So what I meant is with time Hazard will capitalize more, he'll be more objective - risking shots more often - and will also be able to add to his stats numbers, especially with a better striker ahead of him and the team working as a well oiled engine. My main points was bringing CC when people were talking about goals and assists and how we put a lot of expectations on a player that is still under development and who will sharpen his game with time.

Sorry but that's just a ridiculous statement to make and i'm getting quite tired of hearing the argument that Hazard is lazy, cause let's face it that is what you're calling him.

I think you're talking more about the difference in character then their workrate on training.

Yes Hazard has a more laid back character then the other players we've compared him to but i consider that as much an advantage as a disadvantage. He's less likely to choke under pressure and he's also a lot less egotistically driven as the other players we've compared him to. Which makes him a better teamplayer.

Honestly i really doubt he's working only half as hard as Bale. Hazard played 50 games this season, playing in a system that utilised a high pressing game. He also had to help out defensively and track back while when recovering the ball, counter attack which means sprinting 50-60 yards every time he joins the attack. Not once did he complain of fatigue or had cramps or whatever that would prove that he's not working hard on training.

The reason why i compared Neymar to Messi and Ronaldo was because Rom said he had no doubts Neymar was a player that could reach the same level as them. I disagreed with that and compared the numbers of Neymar to that oof Messi andd Ronaldo. I agree with what you're said.

They're in their own league and shouldn't be considered the norm.

I'm not calling him lazy at all. I don't remember ever calling him that. What I meant is that there are guys who work way harder than others because of their approach of the match. What I meant is that sometimes Hazard just fades... for example the first two Belgium matches at the world cup (didn't watch today's). He simply faded in the background for the most part and he seemed quite conformed from afar (or laid back as you put it). If he didn't receive the ball enough, if he didn't run, move enough, if he didn't yell at his teammates enough to receive more than ball than he could work harder or be more vocal or seek the game (in Portuguese we say that a player can take ownership of a match, meaning that when things aren't going his way, he just makes it happen, take matter into his hands and fight, fight, fight). It doesn't mean he was lazy, just that he was passive. I'm calling him passive, not lazy, and I don't mean all the time, but often when he's quiet. Bale is very active, he's presenting himself all the time, running all the time, complaining quite often when he doesn't receive the pass... you see that he's a Energyzer bunny and even annoying. I look at Hazard and I feel like he's okay at all times, whereas other players seem more bothered if things aren't going their way... that's what I meant...

I think a lot of the discrediting has to do with the hype and the overrating that Neymar has. I mean yes every flair dribbler is a bit overrated and has more hype then he should have but with Neymar it takes ridiculous proportions which gets extremely annoying.

I said before that even when he was playing in the Brazilian league he was already being mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo. A lot of people consider him the third best player in the world which he simply isn't. I think that's why a lot of people try and counter that by underating him then. (Bit similar to the extreme hate and extreme love Torres gets from fans)

Well i said Bale and Neymar would be + 25 goals 10-15 assists in the next seasons. So i do rate them. Just not as much as some people do.

Nobody should be mentioned in the same breath as Messi and Cris... but people constantly do it. I understand it to an extent... you want big stars even if they aren't as big as them. Neymar and Hazard have everything to become big stars. I don't think Neymar is the third best player. Suarez is imo when he isn't biting people. But I don't see much difference - if any - between Neymar and Hazard. Hazard was already playing in French league and English league for a few years now while this was Neymar's first European. While I'm the first to say Ligue 1 isn't the reference it's more demanding than Brazilian league. There's Champions League experience, or even Europa League, there's the weather, there's the way the game is way more tactical in Europe than in Brazil and how the competition here is many times weaker. Eden was playing against good players in France and England, Neymar barely faced one in Brazil. I still believe is unfair to compare Neymar's struggles with Hazard more than adapted season... I think Hazard is further in this development, but not necessarily better - but then again, as I said, I hate the comparison between players. To each their own, players are individuals and it's hard to compare them as a whole. Different upbring, experiences, importance/role in the team, team mates quality and chemistry, etc...

Fully agree. Cheers to that.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

That's why I said I'd need a streak of matches with him there to have a better idea or even an opinion. I liked him centered the times I saw him playing like that for Belgium, but I don't think 'his' problem at Chelsea playing in the wing is actually his - is the team's - more especially the fullbacks. He needs people approaching him to offer him escapes and more possibilities, many times he's isolated...

Fully agree with that.

I don't like this particular stat - never has and never will because there's too many shit in the middle of what they consider a chance created. Basically it's all passes before someone attempts to the goal, no matter how long before the pass was done and how much the player dribbled, ran, passed by opponents before shooting. That's giving too much credit to what many times is simply a pass.

You misunderstood my main point here though - as well as in the section below. What I meant is chances created are good intentions. Whether they're missed because they weren't that much of chances, because the player who shot missed it and didn't capitalize it's nearly irrelevant and only good intentions whereas goals and assists are unquestionable and decisive. Even if they're tap ins... for a player to net a tap in first he needs to be well positioned - that's his merit - second he needs to have good timing, also his merit - and third not be named Fernando Torres - which is his luck. So what I meant is whereas chances created - even if they mask a lot of things - is nice, it isn't the real deal and you can't compare a player that created less chances but have better goals/assists stats to a guy that contributed effectively less to the team's success, but created a ton of supposedly chances. So what I meant is with time Hazard will capitalize more, he'll be more objective - risking shots more often - and will also be able to add to his stats numbers, especially with a better striker ahead of him and the team working as a well oiled engine. My main points was bringing CC when people were talking about goals and assists and how we put a lot of expectations on a player that is still under development and who will sharpen his game with time.

Even so you can't just dismiss the stat completely. Yes there are chances that weren't really chances in the stats but Hazard's numbers (chances created) were a lot better then any other player in the top 5 competitions.(I think 20 more then the runner up) That says something.

It's not an pinpoint accurate stat but it's a good indicator that Hazard creates more danger then the other players.

Again you can't dismiss the chances a player created because the player who got the chance missed. The creator still created the chance. The quality is still there. For example Hazard vs Stoke. Created 2 tap in chances (1 for Lampard, 1 for Ramires and Eto'o)

He also created a chance for Oscar who hit the post but that wasn't a tap in but still Hazard created those chances. The fact that they missed doesn't detract from the quality Hazard showed to create them.

Well i brought CC into the discussion because i consider chances created to go hand in hand with assists. So in a goals, assists discussion i feel CC has it's place too.

I'm not calling him lazy at all. I don't remember ever calling him that. What I meant is that there are guys who work way harder than others because of their approach of the match. What I meant is that sometimes Hazard just fades... for example the first two Belgium matches at the world cup (didn't watch today's). He simply faded in the background for the most part and he seemed quite conformed from afar (or laid back as you put it). If he didn't receive the ball enough, if he didn't run, move enough, if he didn't yell at his teammates enough to receive more than ball than he could work harder or be more vocal or seek the game (in Portuguese we say that a player can take ownership of a match, meaning that when things aren't going his way, he just makes it happen, take matter into his hands and fight, fight, fight). It doesn't mean he was lazy, just that he was passive. I'm calling him passive, not lazy, and I don't mean all the time, but often when he's quiet. Bale is very active, he's presenting himself all the time, running all the time, complaining quite often when he doesn't receive the pass... you see that he's a Energyzer bunny and even annoying. I look at Hazard and I feel like he's okay at all times, whereas other players seem more bothered if things aren't going their way... that's what I meant...

Well he is more passive due to his laidback character but like i said that can be both an advantage as a disadvantage.

He indeed doesn't force his way into games as much as Ronaldo or Bale does but Hazard also isn't as wastefull as those 2 are and that's also down to the difference in character. Like you say Bale,(Ronaldo) will get annoyed at times and try and force his way into games making poor decisions and wasting possession while i find that Hazard, throughout the full 90 minutes, will be more balanced in his decisionmaking.

Honestly i would want Hazard to be a little bit more aggressive in his approach but not as much as Bale or C Ronaldo as they really can be extremely wastefull and downright annoying.