David Luiz

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I seriousley dont get what people have against this guy. Is it some kind of english "thing" because he sticks out?

He's been far better than Cahill, and is now doing great as DM, yet people are either writing him off or just drop really stuipid comments. Cahill never gets this. Why?

Because he isn't doing great as a DM. Luiz sometimes gets criticized unfairly and I think he's a better CB than Cahill but nobody thinks Cahill is a world-class defender and he didn't cost us 25M pounds.The thing that drives me crazy is that Luiz can have a terrible game like he did today but because he makes a couple of brilliant plays, people think he had a good game. (Similarly, I've seen him have good games where people think he sucked because he had a couple of bad plays. People just pay too much attention to individual plays.) Today, his positioning was just terrible but beyond that-3 shots from dangerous areas, none of them were within 15 feet of the goal, 0 interceptions, 2 tackles, 4 fouls, 3 for 7 on long balls, 3 turnovers, and was dispossessed once. He was better once Lampard came in and he could play defensively and simplify his game,instead of bombing forward and yeah, he gets criticism because he sticks out, but he also gets credit for the same reason.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Take it you've not been watching today's game? Or the game against Villa?

Why does everybody love to hate Luiz?

It's so frustrating that you can't have a different opinion around here anymore. Criticizing Torres makes you a hater, supporting him makes you a fan boy; Criticizing the owner makes you plastic and being a Mikel fan makes you retarded. You know, when I first joined TC, you could voice a different opinion and get logical opinions and analysis in reply not prejudice claims about you and insults. Obviously a lot has changed, unfortunately..

I don't like Luiz in midfield; How does that make me a Luiz hater? I'll have you know that when everyone was slating him including all the British media, Tomo, LDN, myself and a few other posters were the only people defending him and praising his abilities.

PS: This post is not directed at you personally Muzchap but rather at a lot of people on here.

[Muzchap 8,966]

It's so frustrating that you can't have a different opinion around here anymore. Criticizing Torres makes you a hater, supporting him makes you a fan boy; Criticizing the owner makes you plastic and being a Mikel fan makes you retarded. You know, when I first joined TC, you could voice a different opinion and get logical opinions and analysis in reply not prejudice claims about you and insults. Obviously a lot has chanced, unfortunately..

I don't like Luiz in midfield; How does that make me a Luiz hater? I'll have you know that when everyone was slating him including all the British media, Tomo, LDN, myself and a few other posters were the only people defending him and praising his abilities.

Sigh I already explained that as heat of moment post!!!

A lot of people are saying that Luiz is shit in midfield - he isn't, he's playing much better there and has been the difference IMHO.

Stop using my posts to claim insults - I haven't insulted anybody!!!

He expressed his view, I expressed mine, we chatted some more and ALL COOL

Stop being a drama queen!

[DDA 9,924]

I love these forums but fuck me sometimes reading your over analyitical bullshit makes me wanna bash my head against a moving bus. How can anyone not like Luiz in the DM role... it was made for him. Fuck anyone who says different!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Sigh I already explained that as heat of moment post!!!

A lot of people are saying that Luiz is shit in midfield - he isn't, he's playing much better there and has been the difference IMHO.

Stop using my posts to claim insults - I haven't insulted anybody!!!

He expressed his view, I expressed mine, we chatted some more and ALL COOL

Stop being a drama queen!

I already edited my post and said this isn't aimed towards you. Your post is one example of what's been happening way too often. And I'm not just talking about insults but more about the branding and name calling of posters based on the opinions they express which is preventing any real discussions from happening and instead turning them into a name-calling contest.

[Muzchap 8,966]

I already edited my post and said this isn't aimed towards you. Your post is one example of what's been happening way too often. And I'm not just talking about insults but more about the branding and name calling of posters based on the opinions they express which is preventing any real discussions from happening and instead turning them into a name-calling contest.

Well its an Internet forum with disparate geographic people, religions and beliefs.

I actually don't think it's all that bad to be fair.

Agreed we (me included) need to stop the black and white stuff e.g. Torres fanboy/hater etc and just keep it all in perspective.

If we keep winning things will get better, been a turbulent few months on the CFC roller coaster

[The Skipper 20,609]

Luiz isn't playing as a DM. Just because he's in the pivot doesn't mean he's automatically qualified as a DM. To me he's being played as a B2B CM - he's always seen on either side of the pitch - whilst Mikel sits deep and allows Luiz the freedom to do that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Luiz isn't playing as a DM. Just because he's in the pivot doesn't mean he's automatically qualified as a DM. To me he's being played as a B2B CM - he's always seen on either side of the pitch - whilst Mikel sits deep and allows Luiz the freedom to do that.

You can't have b2b midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, it goes against the definition of the double pivot and screws up your defense completely.

[The Skipper 20,609]

You can't have b2b midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, it goes against the definition of the double pivot and screws up your defense completely.

We have Luiz as a B2B and Mikel holding.

[Leif 6,006]

Luiz is actually playing a very similar role to Yaya Toure's at Man City IMO.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

We have Luiz as a B2B and Mikel holding.

Then we should go back to 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 if that is the way the manager wants the two to play.

@SeB, made a brilliant post some time ago about the functionality of the pivot and the responsibilities of the two players in it, but I can't find it now. Anyway, even if one of the two is playing a bt deeper than the other, both still have the responsibility to cover for both fullbacks to allow them having "modern" full backs who join the attack. Both should pick their runs carefully. You can't have one of them constantly making forward runs to the edge of the pen box because it's going to leave huge spaces behind.

Take last season for example: Frank was playing a head of Mikel, but he still had to pick his runs very carefully and stay deep at other times. That's one of the main reasons why the 4-2-3-1 worked wonders last season.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Then we should go back to 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 if that is the way the manager wants the two to play.

@SeB, made a brilliant post some time ago about the functionality of the pivot and the responsibilities of the two players in it, but I can't find it now. Anyway, even if one of the two is playing a bt deeper than the other, both still have the responsibility to cover for both fullbacks to allow them having "modern" full backs who join the attack. Both should pick their runs carefully. You can't have one of them constantly making forward runs to the edge of the pen box because it's going to leave huge spaces behind.

Take last season for example: Frank was playing a head of Mikel, but he still had to pick his runs very carefully and stay deep at other times. That's one of the main reasons why the 4-2-3-1 worked wonders last season.

Of course both players in the pivot have the responsibility of defending but from what we've seen about the 4-2-3-1 there is always that one player in the -2- that has more freedom and a larger attacking responsibility. When Luiz and Mikel play together, naturally that's going to be Luiz as he offers more going forward.

I've seen a few on here suggest that Luiz should replace Mikel as our primary (holding) DM in the pivot based on his recent performances in the pivot but he's plays a completely different role to Mikel. As @Leif just mentioned above, Luiz is doing a similar job as what Yaya Toure does for City. You can see Yaya at either ends of the pitch but that doesn't mean he's neglecting his defensive responsibility - he's just been given the freedom and is probably encouraged by Mancini to join in on the attacking phase of play. I suspect it's the same with Luiz. Essentially, Mikel could be our Barry, and Luiz our Toure.

Your Lampard analogy is quite relevant but do remember that we did set up a defensive 4-2-3-1, not an expansive one as we see today. In an expansive style of football - there will always be gaps for the opposition to exploit. It's not so much about making sure that everyone is perfectly in position... That's what you do when you're a defensive minded team. What CFC needs to learn is how to defend with the ball. It's our biggest flaw IMO.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Of course both players in the pivot have the responsibility of defending but from what we've seen about the 4-2-3-1 there is always that one player in the -2- that has more freedom and a larger attacking responsibility. When Luiz and Mikel play together, naturally that's going to be Luiz as he offers more going forward.

I've seen a few on here suggest that Luiz should replace Mikel as our primary (holding) DM in the pivot based on his recent performances in the pivot but he's plays a completely different role to Mikel. As @Leif just mentioned above, Luiz is doing a similar job as what Yaya Toure does for City. You can see Yaya at either ends of the pitch but that doesn't mean he's neglecting his defensive responsibility - he's just been given the freedom and is probably encouraged by Mancini to join in on the attacking phase of play. I suspect it's the same with Luiz. Essentially, Mikel could be our Barry, and Luiz our Toure.

Your Lampard analogy is quite relevant but do remember that we did set up a defensive 4-2-3-1, not an expansive one as we see today. In an expansive style of football - there will always be gaps for the opposition to exploit. It's not so much about making sure that everyone is perfectly in position... That's what you do when you're a defensive minded team. What CFC needs to learn is how to defend with the ball. It's our biggest flaw IMO.

I agree about most what you said in there and a brilliant point about defending with the ball.

But I don't think Luiz can be our Toure simply because we play different formations. Yaya plays in a 3-5-2 which allows you to have b2b CMs because you'd still have at least 5 players behind him when he makes his forward runs. I agree that one of the two in the pivot should have more freedom to roam and make forward runs, but not in every attack. I think, even for that role, Luiz has been way out of position way too often. Even if he is given more freedom than Mikel, at no stage should he end up by the opposition's corner flag!

[The only place to be 11,313]

I think, even for that role, Luiz has been way out of position way too often.

It's almost as if he's played the position less than half-a-dozen times.

He's shown enough in his games there for us to continue with the experiment. Yesterday he struggled until Mikel went off, and then he seemed to settle down. His shooting was off but it was the right conditions to test the keeper from that range, especially with the way Norwich defended.

Arguing about what type of midfielder he is after 4 games in that position seems a little premature. Personally I'd be inclined to go with him in midfield against Everton too but that depends on his fitness as well as Mikel and Ramires.

And I'm not sure what point you're making about him being by the opposition's corner flag, but Lampard was in a similar position when he came on too. Clearly Rafa wanted a certain amount of attacking from whoever was playing that position.

[bushman 2,043]

Whatever or however one calls Luiz´ current role at Chelsea, this should have been done much earlier.

Since we all know, his love of going forward left the defense open most of the times. Now, Iva or Cahill can cover the space & he may attack more freely. His kicking technique is pretty good too. Apparently, he even stays behind after training sessions & practice it.