Axel Witsel

[Tomo 21,751]

Southampton have stated that their aim is Champions League football, so that's a fair amount of pressure. They're also off to a pretty good start despite promoting youth, and it's not really a new thing with them.

Wilsere had one loan spell and was then put into the first team - we gave Nat a loan spell and then fucked him around at the start of this season.

Pogba at United is an example of what happens when you don't give youngsters a shot. Still, for that one example there are countless other examples of young players getting a shot at United (Januzaj being the latest) - I don't think we can say there isn't pressure of expectation at United can we?

Like I said, I like Witsel but £40 million for a guy who has never played in a top quality league is a bit of a risk and I also think it's another step in the wrong direction for what this club should be doing. At some point the academy needs to start contributing to the first-team in a meaningful way. Mourinho right now has more freedom to take risks than any manager has in almost a decade, but instead we're flitting between Lampard and Mikel once again.

Speaking of Januzaj, didn't Moyes completely chicken out of playing him against Arsenal (i bet he won't get a single minute against a top 7 side this season).

Apart from Rafeal, i can't think of a regular that came through at United for a long time without needing/having a PL loan first, like Welbeck, Cleverly. They could have used there academy instead of splashing out for Jones and Smalling, but they didn't.

United are better at utilizing their academy for squad depth (but hopefully with us using Bertrand as a squad player the penny has started to drop) but in terms of developing stars from scratch, they have been just as bad as us since the turn of the millennium (if we credit them for Rooney and Ronaldo, then we should be credited for Robben).

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

Alonso is 31 (nearly 32) - that really isn't that old.

What's amazing to me is that we're also looking at Pogba (who was a young lad given a shot by a big team), whilst Southampton are above us having given chances to Ward-Prowse and Shaw. Yet we're afraid to actually give someone like Nat Chalobah a go.

Instead we're looking at spending £40 million on Witsel - a very good player but that is a lot of money to spend.

The problem is that many fans here want impact players as they are too impatient with the group of young potential players we already have.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Speaking of Januzaj, didn't Moyes completely chicken out of playing him against Arsenal (i bet he won't get a single minute against a top 7 side this season).

Apart from Rafeal, i can't think of a regular that came through at United for a long time without needing/having a PL loan first, like Welbeck, Cleverly. They could have used there academy instead of splashing out for Jones and Smalling, but they didn't.

United are better at utilizing their academy for squad depth (but hopefully with us using Bertrand as a squad player the penny has started to drop) but in terms of developing stars from scratch, they have been just as bad as us since the turn of the millennium (if we credit them for Rooney and Ronaldo, then we should be credited for Robben).

Welbeck and Cleverley really aren't that good though. They were never at Pogba or Chalobah's level as youngsters, and they're destined for a career a la John O'Shea which is important (as you said) for squad depth. I can't think of a United academy prospect who was as good in defence as Phil Jones either.

I just wonder why we didn't give Nat Chalobah a chance. He impressed at Watford and his reward was a loan to a club in very much the same position. Now we're looking at signing a player who is good, but has never played in a league that is at the level of the Premier League. Yes he has Champions League experience and he's looked good at international level (with Kompany behind him and Hazard and De Bruyne in front of him) but why don't we look at the Pogba example and actually trust our young exceptional players?

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

Speaking of Januzaj, didn't Moyes completely chicken out of playing him against Arsenal (i bet he won't get a single minute against a top 7 side this season).

Apart from Rafeal, i can't think of a regular that came through at United for a long time without needing/having a PL loan first, like Welbeck, Cleverly. They could have used there academy instead of splashing out for Jones and Smalling, but they didn't.

United are better at utilizing their academy for squad depth (but hopefully with us using Bertrand as a squad player the penny has started to drop) but in terms of developing stars from scratch, they have been just as bad as us since the turn of the millennium (if we credit them for Rooney and Ronaldo, then we should be credited for Robben).

the fact that we have a very wealthy owner explains why our youth are not getting a chance.Now don't get me wrong,I am not complaining or blaming Roman for the current academy situation at the club.It's just that when managers have the luxury to spend around 30m+ each transfer window, they then try to forget about the academy as they want already developed players who can make a quick impact.

Also the change of managers almost every season has made the situation worse.So now since we have Jose and know that he's here for the long run.splashing out money every season should not be an option.If Jose believes that our young players aren't good enough then that's just his decision and since no one can dispute it,we all will accept but since that really isn't the case,the young players should be given more insurance about their future at this club by gradually giving them chances.

We have spent a lot to get these players and develop them so I don't understand why the club overlook them for other players in the market.The only reason why they are being overlooked is because the other clubs are giving a CHANCE for their own players to showcase their talents.If we do the same and showcase the talent we have,then I am sure that other clubs and their fans will be drooling over the prospect of signing our players.

[Tomo 21,751]

Welbeck and Cleverley really aren't that good though. They were never at Pogba or Chalobah's level as youngsters, and they're destined for a career a la John O'Shea which is important (as you said) for squad depth. I can't think of a United academy prospect who was as good in defence as Phil Jones either.

I just wonder why we didn't give Nat Chalobah a chance. He impressed at Watford and his reward was a loan to a club in very much the same position. Now we're looking at signing a player who is good, but has never played in a league that is at the level of the Premier League. Yes he has Champions League experience and he's looked good at international level (with Kompany behind him and Hazard and De Bruyne in front of him) but why don't we look at the Pogba example and actually trust our young exceptional players?

I am actually not to keen on signing Pogba because of Chalobah as the ages clash which you are right about, Witsel on the other hand is what 24/25? so by the time Chalobah is 23 Witsel will be approaching his 30's.

You are right in the point that Chalobah should have been playing PL football this season, whether that was for us or someone on loan, but i have no doubt he will make it here and will be our next long term captain in my book.

[Tomo 21,751]

the fact that we have a very wealthy owner explains why our youth are not getting a chance.Now don't get me wrong,I am not complaining or blaming Roman for the current academy situation at the club.It's just that when managers have the luxury to spend around 30m+ each transfer window, they then try to forget about the academy as they want already developed players who can make a quick impact.

Also the change of managers almost every season has made the situation worse.So now since we have Jose and know that he's here for the long run.splashing out money every season should not be an option.If Jose believes that our young players aren't good enough then that's just his decision and since no one can dispute it,we all will accept but since that really isn't the case,the young players should be given more insurance about their future at this club by gradually giving them chances.

We have spent a lot to get these players and develop them so I see no reason why the club should overlook them for other players in the market.The only reason why they are being overlooked is because the other clubs are giving a CHANCE for their own players to showcase their talents.If we do the same and showcase the talent we have,then I am sure that other clubs and their fans will be drooling over the prospect of signing our players.

Roman's money plays a part in it yes, but at the same time most top clubs in Europe are very, very cautious with the whole youth thing these days. Chelsea, United, Liverpool, Tottenham have all got a poor record with their academy since the millennium.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He's one hell of a player, but 40m is A LOT of money. On any account, I very much doubt it would happen in Jan.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I am actually not to keen on signing Pogba because of Chalobah as the ages clash which you are right about, Witsel on the other hand is what 24/25? so by the time Chalobah is 23 Witsel will be approaching his 30's.

You are right in the point that Chalobah should have been playing PL football this season, whether that was for us or someone on loan, but i have no doubt he will make it here and will be our next long term captain in my book.

I have major doubts because we fucked him over this season. I mentioned it in another thread but I think one could make a case for almost every young player either stagnating or regressing since Jose came into the club (yes it's a short time, yes there are factors etc.).

The age thing is why I'd love us to get Alonso. He knows the league, he knows Mourinho, he's proven at the highest level and he would compliment our young players fantastically. Witsel is a good player but we're paying over the odds for someone who went from the Belgian leagues, to the Portuguese league, to the Russian league.

He'd cost over DOUBLE the price Spurs paid for Dembele. In fact the rumoured price is essentially the same as Yaya Toure PLUS Dembele.

[The Mak 4,459]

Alonso is 31 (nearly 32) - that really isn't that old.

What's amazing to me is that we're also looking at Pogba (who was a young lad given a shot by a big team), whilst Southampton are above us having given chances to Ward-Prowse and Shaw. Yet we're afraid to actually give someone like Nat Chalobah a go.

Instead we're looking at spending £40 million on Witsel - a very good player but that is a lot of money to spend.

It's pretty old compared alongside Witsel, Gundogan, Pogba, Chalobah etc. who we'd get much more milage out of.

I see Nat as a better option than Lampard right now and, if he keeps going the way he is, he'll also surpass Mikel easily. So in a perfect world we would have Chalobah developing in the pivot at this very moment. But we're not in a perfect world; we're Chelsea, not Southampton and we're in the most competitive league in the world, not the Serie A.

But Witsel is perhaps the best DM in the world right now. At this moment he could have the capability of changing the whole dynamic of our team because he's the player we've been craving for years.

It looks like Nat's time will have to come later. Essien's contract won't be renewed and Lampard could be on the way out in the next season or two. So he could very well be 3rd choice for us next season or the season after. That isn't bad for someone who'll still be under 21 playing for a team like Chelsea.

[Special Juan 28,132]

Joke if we pay 40M for this lad. I'm firmly in the Alonso camp, thing he is fantastic.

[Tomo 21,751]

I have major doubts because we fucked him over this season. I mentioned it in another thread but I think one could make a case for almost every young player either stagnating or regressing since Jose came into the club (yes it's a short time, yes there are factors etc.).

The age thing is why I'd love us to get Alonso. He knows the league, he knows Mourinho, he's proven at the highest level and he would compliment our young players fantastically. Witsel is a good player but we're paying over the odds for someone who went from the Belgian leagues, to the Portuguese league, to the Russian league.

He'd cost over DOUBLE the price Spurs paid for Dembele. In fact the rumoured price is essentially the same as Yaya Toure PLUS Dembele.

Im not to sure on that, i think the reason we left it until after the August window because we were trying to find him a PL club, when that was unsuccessful we then had no choice but to look at the Championship again.

While i can see where you are coming from regarding Alonso, i think we can do with a player approaching his prime which Witsel is, if there is one thing our squad lack it's players in the 25-29 bracket, i can't see Alonso leaving Madrid personally.

Yeah Witsel might have not played in the PL yet but sometimes that works out because he will be hungry to make that step up (like say Carvalho was) and he has proven himself at International stage (all be it around great players like you said) and in the Champions League against top opponents.

I think he is worth the risk, but i wouldn't exactly complain with Alonso either.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It's pretty old compared alongside Witsel, Gundogan, Pogba, Chalobah etc. who we'd get much more milage out of.

I see Nat as a better option than Lampard right now and, if he keeps going the way he is, he'll also surpass Mikel easily. So in a perfect world we would have Chalobah developing in the pivot at this very moment. But we're not in a perfect world; we're Chelsea, not Southampton and we're in the most competitive league in the world, not the Serie A.

But Witsel is perhaps the best DM in the world right now. At this moment he could have the capability of changing the whole dynamic of our team because he's the player we've been craving for years.

It looks like Nat's time will have to come later. Essien's contract won't be renewed and Lampard could be on the way out in the next season or two. So he could very well be 3rd choice for us next season or the season after. That isn't bad for someone who'll still be under 21 playing for a team like Chelsea.

He's roughly the same age as Makelele was when we signed him. He's proven in this league and he's worked under Jose. I can't imagine he'd be much more than a quarter of Witsel's price too.

Nat should've been developing in the Premier League this season, and like Lukaku I think it should've been with us rather than sticking with Essien/Mikel/Ba/Eto'o. Instead we're being linked with Witsel and Falcao - the twin stars of the Russian and French leagues respectively (except they're not because Hulk and Ibra probably are).

He's a good player but he's in far too inferior a competition to say he's best in the world. Yes he's looked good for Belgium but they're an exceptional team right now. A few months ago you'd get a few people saying Paulinho was the player we needed but he's had a few struggles (he also cost £17 million which is less than HALF what Witsel is being quoted at - there's just no value in this transfer).

Im not to sure on that, i think the reason we left it until after the August window because we were trying to find him a PL club, when that was unsuccessful we then had no choice but to look at the Championship again.

While i can see where you are coming from regarding Alonso, i think we can do with a player approaching his prime which Witsel is, if there is one thing our squad lack it's players in the 25-29 bracket, i can't see Alonso leaving Madrid personally.

Yeah Witsel might have not played in the PL yet but sometimes that works out because he will be hungry to make that step up (like say Carvalho was) and he has proven himself at International stage (all be it around great players like you said) and in the Champions League against top opponents.

I think he is worth the risk, but i wouldn't exactly complain with Alonso either.

I don't think Alonso will leave after the Khedira injury and that's a shame.

There is just so much risk associated with this transfer and the price is absurd. I just can't keep thinking of other transfers that make us look like we're overpaying (Fellaini, proven in the league and over £10 million cheaper) whilst marginalising our own developments. Maybe that's a consequence of neglecting the midfield for so long but I think I'd be happier sticking with Mikel until next summer.

[bouletje 82]

With the way Mourinho plays, i'm sure witsel fits the profile.

40mil for a player you actually really need for the spot going against a30 million payed for another AM then I can't really see the financial problem Some are making out of this.

Altho mou was in the stands at the Bel-Col game I don't believe he was there to have a look at Witsel, think my point will be proven if he shows up at Netherlands-Col tonight;)

[The only place to be 11,313]

With the way Mourinho plays, i'm sure witsel fits the profile.

40mil for a player you actually really need for the spot going against a30 million payed for another AM then I can't really see the financial problem Some are making out of this.

Altho mou was in the stands at the Bel-Col game I don't believe he was there to have a look at Witsel, think my point will be proven if he shows up at Netherlands-Col tonight;)

I'd say the player we actually needed was someone like De Rossi - a proven leader.

At £25 million this deal actually makes a lot of sense (comparable to the prices paid for Fellaini, Luiz, Toure etc.) but £40 million is a big step up.

But maybe he becomes our Javi Martinez - comparable price and in a similar position in their careers....urgh. This is just one of those transfers where you cover your eyes and hope it works out for the best. It's not a Courtois where you end up buying a world-class player on the cheap and boast about it.

If we sign him, let us never disclose the figure and never even guess the numbers involved. Let's all just look at his pretty hair and pray to fuck that he isn't shit.

[LeonDavis23 371]

Joke if we pay 40M for this lad. I'm firmly in the Alonso camp, thing he is fantastic.

I'm on team witsel, we haven't had much recent luck with ex-lpoo players