Ruben Loftus-Cheek

[King Kante 1,299]

23 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

RLC was a complete game changer for Sarri Ball and it was way more direct.

Also, Hazards off the ball qualities are garbage too. I rarely see people hating on him because of that. If RLC does more off the ball movement and stops scoring 10 goals and 5 assists in 2000 minutes, he will be just a tall version of Mason Mount. Now, people want more Mounts and when Mount is not showing something offensive, people will say that he should do more for the offensive part of his game. People can't have it all. Yaya at Man City was not doing that much defending either and I am sure City could have cared less. You will not see 190 cm tall, 90 kg footballer with crazy technique and making those Yaya Toure/RLC bulldozer runs. Mount said in an interview that he knew he will never be tall and strong like other players. That is why he focused on pressing and a little bit of passing (in my opinion average). RLC knows that he will never be a marathon runner and that is why he focused more on his other areas. Lukaku knows he is not made for being a marathon runner, that is why he has a sprinter style of play. Football is a team's sport and not a individual sport. We have 11 players and want to have different style of players available for our first eleven. I would be suicidal if we had 11 Mounts or 11 Willians playing for us. Just running and running, but nothing else.

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Honestly, I do not know where you have seen evidence of RLC being similar to Yaya Toure. Yes, he can shield the ball well but he doesn't bulldoze his way through like he did. Maybe he has done it once or twice but there is no consistency to it to say it is a fundamental part of his game. Further, Yaya was very good at incepting the ball, which RLC isn't and he did move off the ball. 

Honestly, what me and Grevesie are saying has also been said by every manager that has had him fit and available. Close to zero work rate off the ball and wants it played to feet. Conparing this to Hazard is also wrong on two counts as a) Eden did make runs to draw defenders and b ) Eden's ability to dribble against packed defences is at a much higher level. 

I am really not trying to be condescending here but next time you watch Chelsea with RLC in the team, please try and following him as best you can when he is without the ball as it is very clear what I and Grevesie are talking about. 

Further, to avoid any confusion, I have absolutely no desire to do RLC down for no reason and would be ecstatic if he was able to adapt his off the ball work so that he could become similar to Yaya (who is in my top 3 favourite non-Chelsea PL players.) However, this belief that he does this is not reality (and I say this as someone that thought the same when I saw him in youth football, only to be disappointed when I actually watched him play live.) 

 

[Tomo 21,681]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

RLC was a complete game changer for Sarri Ball and it was way more direct.

Also, Hazards off the ball qualities are garbage too. I rarely see people hating on him because of that. If RLC does more off the ball movement and stops scoring 10 goals and 5 assists in 2000 minutes, he will be just a tall version of Mason Mount. Now, people want more Mounts and when Mount is not showing something offensive, people will say that he should do more for the offensive part of his game. People can't have it all. Yaya at Man City was not doing that much defending either and I am sure City could have cared less. You will not see 190 cm tall, 90 kg footballer with crazy technique and making those Yaya Toure/RLC bulldozer runs. Mount said in an interview that he knew he will never be tall and strong like other players. That is why he focused on pressing and a little bit of passing (in my opinion average). RLC knows that he will never be a marathon runner and that is why he focused more on his other areas. Lukaku knows he is not made for being a marathon runner, that is why he has a sprinter style of play. Football is a team's sport and not a individual sport. We have 11 players and want to have different style of players available for our first eleven. I would be suicidal if we had 11 Mounts or 11 Willians playing for us. Just running and running, but nothing else.

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Where's all this stuff that Mount's just a workhorse coming from? An admittedly poor winter period has seemingly distorted reality and made people think that's his level.

Things like his goal at Norwich, run against Spurs (before Alonso's goal), and piece of play yesterday to set up what should have been the easiest goal of the season have all been excellent pieces of individual brilliance by him.

I was as happy as anyone with the progress made by RLC at the back end of last season (Sarri doesn't get the credit he deserves for the work he did with him) but unfortunately for him he's got a mountain to climb now as a player that suits Frank's system down to the ground is playing in his position (and personally  I think Mounts form before the second international break and Spurs away and beyond is better than anything I've seen from Ruben with the exception of those last two months I mentioned, comfortably so aswell).

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

People are genuinely blind if they don't see how essential Mount is to our build up. 

Why is it we create a shit load of chances compared to last season? Because our build up is very fast. 

[King Kante 1,299]

RE: Mount. I haven't understood some of the comments I have seen from people on here about Mount. Even during his dip in form he was still working his arse off and wasn't exactly a passenger. For me, Mount has been our most consistent and reliable youth product this season. Further, the kid is what 20/21? Which also makes him the second second youngest first team youtth product to James doesn't it? A lot of our chances come off him either directly or through his work rate. Needs to get a few more goals but I do not know what more people are expecting from him. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,199]

I remember someone genuinely wanted us to replace Mount for Gallagher. 

[killer1257 3,282]

RE: Mount. I haven't understood some of the comments I have seen from people on here about Mount. Even during his dip in form he was still working his arse off and wasn't exactly a passenger. For me, Mount has been our most consistent and reliable youth product this season. Further, the kid is what 20/21? Which also makes him the second second youngest first team youtth product to James doesn't it? A lot of our chances come off him either directly or through his work rate. Needs to get a few more goals but I do not know what more people are expecting from him. 

Willian and Oscar did the same and that is just not good enough for Chelsea. Just running and pressing will not win you titles.

Compare Mount to KDB, who both play same position and more or less have same body type. And yes, even a younger KDB was better than Mount. I saw him play at Bremen and Wolfsburg. It was obvious that he was going to become the best midfielder in the world.

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[Jase 43,479]

Maybe, just maybe, there's a reason why Loftus-Cheek was never favored under pragmatic managers like Mourinho and Conte because he doesn't do near enough with the defensive work. If a player is gonna be allowed to not do any defensive work, then he better compensates it consistently going forward. Loftus-Cheek is certainly nowhere near that. Also IIRC, he was also mostly used on the flanks at Crystal Palace and then of course on the LW under Lampard last weekend, where his defensive issues would be slightly of a concern compared to playing in midfield. 

[killer1257 3,282]

 

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, there's a reason why Loftus-Cheek was never favored under pragmatic managers like Mourinho and Conte because he doesn't do near enough with the defensive work. If a player is gonna be allowed to not do any defensive work, then he better compensates it consistently going forward. Loftus-Cheek is certainly nowhere near that. Also IIRC, he was also mostly used on the flanks at Crystal Palace and then of course on the LW under Lampard last weekend, where his defensive issues would be slightly of a concern compared to playing in midfield. 

 

Mourinho is a youth hater and does not know anything about youth integration. He also said in an interview that he sees RLC as a future no. 6. WTF. He wanted him to be a Mikel. Also what does Mourinho know about talents? He chose fucking Oscar over KDB, who most people saw as a future world star.If someone sees Oscar's potential higher than KDBs, you can't be helped. And I knew Oscar even before he was at Chelsea because I read reports that Oscar was the next Modric and I started watching him before he came to Chelsea and I saw nothing of Modric...

 

RLC had no place in a Conte 3-4-3 . RLC is useless in that system just like he is useless in a 4-4-2 because he does not work in a 2 men midfield . System that work with RLC are 4-2-3-1 or his best system 4-3-3. What a coincidence. Sarri played that system. I have been saying this for years...

 

Some players work only in different formations.

 

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[King Kante 1,299]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Willian and Oscar did the same and that is just not good enough for Chelsea. Just running and pressing will not win you titles.

Compare Mount to KDB, who both play same position and more or less have same body type. And yes, even a younger KDB was better than Mount. I saw him play at Bremen and Wolfsburg. It was obvious that he was going to become the best midfielder in the world.

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Who is comparing Mount to KDB? I haven't said he is better than KDB or even a similar type player. What I said is that he has been the most consistent performer of the youth products and he is one of the youngest of the youth products. 

[communicate 2,703]

14 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Willian and Oscar did the same and that is just not good enough for Chelsea. Just running and pressing will not win you titles.

Compare Mount to KDB, who both play same position and more or less have same body type. And yes, even a younger KDB was better than Mount. I saw him play at Bremen and Wolfsburg. It was obvious that he was going to become the best midfielder in the world.

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We won the league with Oscar though 

[communicate 2,703]

16 hours ago, killer1257 said:

RLC was a complete game changer for Sarri Ball and it was way more direct.

Also, Hazards off the ball qualities are garbage too. I rarely see people hating on him because of that. If RLC does more off the ball movement and stops scoring 10 goals and 5 assists in 2000 minutes, he will be just a tall version of Mason Mount. Now, people want more Mounts and when Mount is not showing something offensive, people will say that he should do more for the offensive part of his game. People can't have it all. Yaya at Man City was not doing that much defending either and I am sure City could have cared less. You will not see 190 cm tall, 90 kg footballer with crazy technique and making those Yaya Toure/RLC bulldozer runs. Mount said in an interview that he knew he will never be tall and strong like other players. That is why he focused on pressing and a little bit of passing (in my opinion average). RLC knows that he will never be a marathon runner and that is why he focused more on his other areas. Lukaku knows he is not made for being a marathon runner, that is why he has a sprinter style of play. Football is a team's sport and not a individual sport. We have 11 players and want to have different style of players available for our first eleven. I would be suicidal if we had 11 Mounts or 11 Willians playing for us. Just running and running, but nothing else.

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If you don't want to run, no problem but you have to be the best player on the team otherwise, you have to freaking run. 

Like you said Hazard off the ball effort is garbage, but Hazard is the best player in our team by far. 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

On 23/06/2020 at 7:29 PM, killer1257 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Mourinho is a youth hater and does not know anything about youth integration. He also said in an interview that he sees RLC as a future no. 6. WTF. He wanted him to be a Mikel. Also what does Mourinho know about talents? He chose fucking Oscar over KDB, who most people saw as a future world star.If someone sees Oscar's potential higher than KDBs, you can't be helped. And I knew Oscar even before he was at Chelsea because I read reports that Oscar was the next Modric and I started watching him before he came to Chelsea and I saw nothing of Modric...

 

RLC had no place in a Conte 3-4-3 . RLC is useless in that system just like he is useless in a 4-4-2 because he does not work in a 2 men midfield . System that work with RLC are 4-2-3-1 or his best system 4-3-3. What a coincidence. Sarri played that system. I have been saying this for years...

 

Some players work only in different formations.

 

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Tbf I think regarding Ruben before last season: Mourinho seen him more Ruben as a 6/8 in his team, Conte seen him as more of a striker in his team, Hodgson seen him as a winger in his team, Sarri seen him as a CM in his team and Gareth Southgate seen him as a CM/CAM for England.

His biggest problem has probably been the fact he was always seen as someone where nobody was completely sure of his best position until Roy and Sarri played him more consistently at first team level. Even then before last year he didnt really have consistent end product or numbers and none of the other guys beforehand had ever given him persistent playing time either in one position to cement it and make it his own. Frank played him more off the left but I do feel based on last season he is a central midfielder in a 3 or a 10. Whether or not he will persist with him there on the long term or not, we will find out.
 

 

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Tbf I think regarding Ruben before last season: Mourinho seen him more Ruben as a 6/8 in his team, Conte seen him as more of a striker in his team, Hodgson seen him as a winger in his team, Sarri seen him as a CM in his team and Gareth Southgate seen him as a CM/CAM for England.

His biggest problem has probably been the fact he was always seen as someone where nobody was completely sure of his best position until Roy and Sarri played him more consistently at first team level. Even then before last year he didnt really have consistent end product or numbers and none of the other guys beforehand had ever given him persistent playing time either in one position to cement it and make it his own. Frank played him more off the left but I do feel based on last season he is a central midfielder in a 3 or a 10. Whether or not he will persist with him there on the long term or not, we will find out.
 

 

The problem with ruben is the fact that off the ball he is quite lethargic that is why it is difficult to find the best position for him, his skill set probably suited to cm/am role. But those require you to run more. 

[communicate 2,703]

Need tons of matches to get ready, it doesn't feel like he can run at all

[killer1257 3,282]

He was sprinting normal though.

But Barkley fucked up three passes to RLC, in which Ruben could show if he still has it or not. But Barkley misplaced three passes to Ruben and basically we still have the same questions because of Barkleys bad passing. We still have to see, but I think we will see Ruben more in midfield when CHO is back again

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[killer1257 3,282]

He is improving. Nice assist to Tammy.



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[Puliiszola 519]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He is improving. Nice assist to Tammy.



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And some of his runs from the mid. Had been waiting so long to see him make those runs.

[NikkiCFC 7,582]

Baby steps... He is getting better by every game.