Should AVB be sacked for Mourinho?

[nullabletype 987]

If SAF isn't some 'miracle working youth developing legend', then how in good gracious is talent like that somehow emerged?

SAF- Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Neville, Fletcher, Butt, Pique, Brown, Oshea, Rossi, Welbeck, Cleverly

I think you're missing the point. People talk about Ferguson like he has some sort of conveyor belt of young talent just waiting to go, like he's year in year out producing superstar youngsters. The truth is, if most good managers were given the same time (26 years) and shown the patience that Ferguson was they'd probably produce of a list of 12 youth success stories too. Also, half the players on that list you provided were from the same era and Ferguson hasn't really produced players to that standard since. Never mind the fact that it's not like Ferguson does it all on his own. It's not like he has a whole team of staff, youth coaches, scouts etc to help him find and produce such talent.

[Santiago. 1,500]

You arrogant , do you ever take the time to read other people's post and actually take the time to digest it? What is irrational or illogical about a counter argument about your outrageous and ridiculous post about Jose being lucky? So when he 'APPROACHED' Porto were they CL winners before his tenure? Inter had spent a far sum before his 'APPROACH' but were they CL winners? We had spent a lot under Ranieri, yet were we Champions? Did Pelligrini or whatever his name was that managed Madrid before Jose win the spanish title despite spending huge sums? Of course its a huge fucking NO, they had good squads, spent fortunes but couldn't achieve what Jose has. What is 'truly astonishing is people like you who cannot bring yourself to give the man a tiny bit of credit for his achievements but continue to play down his success because you have a wankfest over Playstation of FIFA 10000 and you think you know it all, there are too many jumped up arseholes like you on here that need to fuckoff and support someone else!

You typify what is wrong with fans today, haven't got a fucking clue yet you preach from the high heavens and show complete disrespect to the best Chelsea manager ever and when did i ever spout off that 'Jose was the best manager in the world' i stated and it is FACT that he is the most successful Chelsea manager ever, next time you reply to someone read and take in their post before counteracting with abuse and a response that clearly puts you on a fishing trip. Its clear to say that best you avoid me in future.

Since when did i not say that Mourniho wasn't Chelsea's best manager?

If you haven't noticed, my arguments are going throughout this topic,

My basic statement and point throughout this argument in how many believe that "Jose Mourinho is the best manager in the world", is that he inherited world class players to begin with at Porto, Chelsea, Inter, and Madrid. I would like to see him manage wolves or how he could stay at a club for a period of time and build a team generation after generation, rather than leaving after a couple years to another big shot club with talent flowing though the ranks. When you claim that i don't take the time to read, your being hypocritical as would have known that i clearly stated that i only praise Mourinho for his tactics in outsmarting his opponent. Porto won the Champions league due to a pair of luck getting aside United, and outclassed Monaco in the final. At Chelsea, was purely in the right direction with the cash being brought in for the players as well as Mourinho, who's tactics brought a premier league title for the club as well as other domestic cups. At Inter, yet again, talent emerging throughout the club and out smarted tactically against Barcelona. At Madrid, with the most expensive squad in the history of football, yet only managed to win one trophy while pep manages to humiliate him 6 times in 9 meetings, Madrid only winning 1. While he cowards back with 5 defenders and a 3 men midfield at home against barca, a sight of him being too cautious. Like i said previously, his tactics are the only thing i praise him for.

He was inherited a great squad where ever he went, but his tactics with that club got him to where his prestige is. It's purely based on preference, but being a Chelsea forum, there will be biased reasoning into play rather than logical thinking.

The fact he has taken on the great Barca side 'the greatest chemistry you have ever seen' and is now a mere 10 points ahead, is that also luck?

Post of the fuckin year, 'How he took on the great barca side?' LMAO, which one? the 5-0 defeat? the 2-0 Defeat? the 3-1 defeat?

The most expensive squad in history, with world class talent even on the bench, i would have expected them too. 1 victory out of 9 against Barca is truly a great feat. How barca are still in mathematically 3 competitions in the season and Madrid are only in 2, never knew the season ended in feb.

[Santiago. 1,500]

I think you're missing the point. People talk about Ferguson like he has some sort of conveyor belt of young talent just waiting to go, like he's year in year out producing superstar youngsters. The truth is, if most good managers were given the same time (26 years) and shown the patience that Ferguson was they'd probably produce of a list of 12 youth success stories too. Also, half the players on that list you provided were from the same era and Ferguson hasn't really produced players to that standard since. Never mind the fact that it's not like Ferguson does it all on his own. It's not like he has a whole team of staff, youth coaches, scouts etc to help him find and produce such talent.

Which just proves my point. Year after year he portrays talent and generation after generation united have continued to be successful under him.

[FranklyFrank 103]

You arrogant , do you ever take the time to read other people's post and actually take the time to digest it? What is irrational or illogical about a counter argument about your outrageous and ridiculous post about Jose being lucky? So when he 'APPROACHED' Porto were they CL winners before his tenure? Inter had spent a far sum before his 'APPROACH' but were they CL winners? We had spent a lot under Ranieri, yet were we Champions? Did Pelligrini or whatever his name was that managed Madrid before Jose win the spanish title despite spending huge sums? Of course its a huge fucking NO, they had good squads, spent fortunes but couldn't achieve what Jose has. What is 'truly astonishing is people like you who cannot bring yourself to give the man a tiny bit of credit for his achievements but continue to play down his success because you have a wankfest over Playstation of FIFA 10000 and you think you know it all, there are too many jumped up arseholes like you on here that need to fuckoff and support someone else!

You typify what is wrong with fans today, haven't got a fucking clue yet you preach from the high heavens and show complete disrespect to the best Chelsea manager ever and when did i ever spout off that 'Jose was the best manager in the world' i stated and it is FACT that he is the most successful Chelsea manager ever, next time you reply to someone read and take in their post before counteracting with abuse and a response that clearly puts you on a fishing trip. Its clear to say that best you avoid me in future.

Don't you think you are being a little over extreme. Both of you have different opinions but that's fine. I agree that he is not the best manager in the world but you can not deny the trophies he has one. He has won at just about every club he has been at. Look at Inter Milan without Mourinho, heck, look at us without Mourinho.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Don't you think you are being a little over extreme. Both of you have different opinions but that's fine. I agree that he is not the best manager in the world but you can not deny the trophies he has one. He has won at just about every club he has been at. Look at Inter Milan without Mourinho, heck, look at us without Mourinho.

Which i mentioned, countless times, his tactics are outstanding

[Lampy 110]

Semia, you make me want to throw up. Go ahead, continue to shit on the memory of our greatest manager ever. Continue to spit on the man who brought us everything and who is arguably the best coach in the world. Continue to defile the legacy of a man who loves this club and the people in it openly.

But don't expect us to join in with your tripe. Mourinho is father to us all. Chelsea till I die.

[FranklyFrank 103]

Semia, you make me want to throw up. Go ahead, continue to shit on the memory of our greatest manager ever. Continue to spit on the man who brought us everything and who is arguably the best coach in the world. Continue to defile the legacy of a man who loves this club and the people in it openly.

But don't expect us to join in with your tripe. Mourinho is father to us all. Chelsea till I die.

I don't think you understand Semia's point of view. I think he likes Mourinho. He didn't "defile" him at all. Semia just says he isn't the best manager right now.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Semia, you make me want to throw up. Go ahead, continue to shit on the memory of our greatest manager ever. Continue to spit on the man who brought us everything and who is arguably the best coach in the world. Continue to defile the legacy of a man who loves this club and the people in it openly.

But don't expect us to join in with your tripe. Mourinho is father to us all. Chelsea till I die.

Where have I attempted to shit on the memory of Mourinho and Chelsea?

Debatable, highly debatable

Where have i even made a remark of disrespect to his accomplishments at Chelsea

Remarkable

A truly logical and rational post

[nullabletype 987]

Which just proves my point. Year after year he portrays talent and generation after generation united have continued to be successful under him.

No it doesn't, he has produced various talent sure, but he spends money just like any other club, and he realistically hasn't produced any more talent that any half decent manager graced with longevity wouldn't.

More so, as I pointed out, half on that list were players from the same era. If anything, you've proved that he produced one amazingly strong group of players and that his production slowed ever since. In Beckhams heyday, look at the amount of super young players MUFC had produced. Look at their current youth, realistically how many of them are superstars who you'd have at Chelsea now?

Of course Ferguson is successful year after year, but it's not because he produces youngsters like its nobody's business.

[Santiago. 1,500]

No it doesn't, he has produced various talent sure, but he spends money just like any other club, and he realistically hasn't produced any more talent that any half decent manager graced with longevity wouldn't.

More so, as I pointed out, half on that list were players from the same era. If anything, you've proved that he produced one amazingly strong group of players and that his production slowed ever since. In Beckhams heyday, look at the amount of super young players MUFC had produced. Look at their current youth, realistically how many of them are superstars who you'd have at Chelsea now?

Of course Ferguson is successful year after year, but it's not because he produces youngsters like its nobody's business.

Producing youngsters isnt what my main point of argument is. It's the fact that year after year he continues to build the team, bringing moral as well as attacking football ever since the 80's. He's stuck with that team to thick and thin and during transitions, he took time, and rebuilt the squad to become a dominant force in English football once more. Over the past 5 years, he has spent less than City and Chelsea, he relies on smart transfers as well as a system that builds to players strengths year in and year out which plays to his advantage. With the absence of Ronaldo and Tevez, many predicted united would fall, yet he formatted and reshaped the squad that focused on the entire squad rather than ronaldo.

Realistically, Pogba, Cleverly, Kean, and Morrison if he wasn't a douche.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Semia, you make me want to throw up. Go ahead, continue to shit on the memory of our greatest manager ever. Continue to spit on the man who brought us everything and who is arguably the best coach in the world. Continue to defile the legacy of a man who loves this club and the people in it openly.

But don't expect us to join in with your tripe. Mourinho is father to us all. Chelsea till I die.

Speak for yourself...

[communicate 2,703]

I think what semia meant is that SAF buy players not only to win now but also for the long term (smalling, da silva brother, cleverly). When they were bought by SAF, they are not ready to play at PL.

Mourinho on the other hand, his transfer policy has always been to win now. It's true that Mourinho bought young player, but buying young player such as di maria, ozil does not count because not only they does not come cheap but also they are already international level player. It is very difficult to sustain long term success in this way unless you have plenty of capital (ex: Real Madrid)

[ZanSnake 1,211]

I think AvB should be given more time, it is clear he has some sort of vision for what he wants for the club for the long run, and even acknowledge's that. The problem that lies with the season we have is that the players are who they are, and our manager is so young and is learning. I think we have bled as much out of this squad as it is, and another managerial transition would put us back into the same position - despite if it is Jose or not. I respect Jose for what he has done with his career, and for his special bond for us and the EPL - but we need to grasp this oppertunity we have with someone like AvB who has a project and at least try to build on it.

If AvB does a large overhaul and brings in some amazing and exceptional buys like he did with Mata and Romeu, maybe we would have more of an eager time to win and maybe we could get somewhere. All i want from this season is a top four finish and the FA Cup honour, which we could do if the players actually get motivated to push on from the team's failings to turn the season around. I don't want AvB sacked, as to me he is someone and something that we haven't had yet, and it might be a good risk to keep him on, as much admiration i have for Jose, this 'project' should be given an oppertunity to run.

[FranklyFrank 103]

I think AvB should be given more time, it is clear he has some sort of vision for what he wants for the club for the long run, and even acknowledge's that. The problem that lies with the season we have is that the players are who they are, and our manager is so young and is learning. I think we have bled as much out of this squad as it is, and another managerial transition would put us back into the same position - despite if it is Jose or not. I respect Jose for what he has done with his career, and for his special bond for us and the EPL - but we need to grasp this oppertunity we have with someone like AvB who has a project and at least try to build on it.

If AvB does a large overhaul and brings in some amazing and exceptional buys like he did with Mata and Romeu, maybe we would have more of an eager time to win and maybe we could get somewhere. All i want from this season is a top four finish and the FA Cup honour, which we could do if the players actually get motivated to push on from the team's failings to turn the season around. I don't want AvB sacked, as to me he is someone and something that we haven't had yet, and it might be a good risk to keep him on, as much admiration i have for Jose, this 'project' should be given an oppertunity to run.

I don't think AvB has the ability to get the players motivated yet. I may be wrong but that is my opinion.

[Lampy 110]

I think what semia meant is that SAF buy players not only to win now but also for the long term (smalling, da silva brother, cleverly). When they were bought by SAF, they are not ready to play at PL.

Mourinho on the other hand, his transfer policy has always been to win now. It's true that Mourinho bought young player, but buying young player such as di maria, ozil does not count because not only they does not come cheap but also they are already international level player. It is very difficult to sustain long term success in this way unless you have plenty of capital (ex: Real Madrid)

Umm. except he bought them relatively cheap ... Especially Ozil (15 million euro, on this years short list for ballon d'or) .... both of whom far outclass the united lads so i'd give mourinho the nod. Just happens that the youth he picks out are so good, you have trouble classifying them as youth.So you are completely wrong about that too. lol