🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[communicate 2,703]

8 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Tbf I think Rashford showed plenty under van Gaal and even Mourinho playing from a wider position that our guys haven’t in terms of affecting games. In the same way Sterling did for Liverpool. Okay his final ball is maybe more consistent/better and his finishing is better now but hes more experienced. In my eyes, his general play was always good at United and he wasn't exactly inconsistent bar his finishing and final pass but with young attacking players those things are to be expected regardless of their talent. The other aspects of his game were always there and clear to see, his pace, his willingness to take players on, to always be positive, they were there when he started playing and are still there now. Now he has obviously been shifted back into a more central position where he was originally started under Van Gaal to greater effect. 

So it is easier to incorporate young attacker to a team. United is playing 'youth', only Greenwood is truly young. The rest are experience professional. 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

8 hours ago, communicate said:

So it is easier to incorporate young attacker to a team. United is playing 'youth', only Greenwood is truly young. The rest are experience professional. 

 

Maybe it is easier to integrate young attackers yes but they still their own issues.

I feel for the other positions it is slightly harder for young players because if you make a big mistake in goal, in a back 4 or in central midfield they can be more likely to lead up to a chance or goal being conceded and these things can knock a player, ie: Andreas after his mistake v Barca under Conte. Sure attackers can have this but you always feel in the right team they will always get another big chance and then people forget that miss or this miss etc but as a GK or defender particularly these things aren't forgotten as quickly.

I mean even established players in those positions, look at Jamie Carragher and Richard Dunne, both had long PL careers with varied levels of success but people still remember Dunne more for scoring the most own goals in the PL more than what he actually carved out which was a decent career. Carragher will be more remembered again for a few own goals and being made a right cunt of by Gianfranco Zola near a corner flag by opposition fans. David Luiz for the titles he’s won throughout his career, will likely always be remembered for his bad performances at club level and in particular than Brazil Germany game as opposed to the outstanding season under Antonio Conte or good performances he had with Benfica against Liverpool and some at the beginning here with Carlo.

Also, the thing with United is that they have a real tradition of bringing through youth over the years and it is something engrained into the clubs DNA so to speak. Similarly like Ajax. We have to try go down that route, then maybe people will change their opinions towards it a bit and accept their will be issues with young players as there always are.

Regardless though you need high standards as well good pros/players in and around these young guys to guide them, bail them out or tell them to get the finger out. Especially at the likes of a club of our stature where the history of the Roman era has been built on winning trophies. Being young shouldn’t necessarily mean they are immune to criticism but it has to be construction as opposed to plainly over the top. 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

I have no problems with not being a big team that develops youth consistently. Its rare, I'm more interested in being successful. We were successful without doing it. Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich don't do it. Especially Munich, they just buy the best German players once they've had time to develop. City dont do it. Man United only do it when they aren't challenging. Liverpool rarely do it (one main youth product who's world class? No shit!) Barcelona dont do it. They had a ten year golden patch.

 

I honestly don't care about having half a team of youth products. I won't a team that is good. As good as it can get. That takes money, we are developing a brand so that we should consistently have the money to build a good team.

 

Youth is a bonus.

 

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[killer1257 3,282]

I have no problems with not being a big team that develops youth consistently. Its rare, I'm more interested in being successful. We were successful without doing it. Real Madrid, Juventus and Bayern Munich don't do it. Especially Munich, they just buy the best German players once they've had time to develop. City dont do it. Man United only do it when they aren't challenging. Liverpool rarely do it (one main youth product who's world class? No shit!) Barcelona dont do it. They had a ten year golden patch.
 
I honestly don't care about having half a team of youth products. I won't a team that is good. As good as it can get. That takes money, we are developing a brand so that we should consistently have the money to build a good team.
 
Youth is a bonus.
 
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Bayern do not do it because they have a garbage youth team. Their best youth product was Müller and he is a low level player. He only made a career because of robben and Ribery.

But they started doing some investments for their youth and invested 70 million for a new youth team center to develop new players. Uli Hoeneß said that he is sick of this transfer neymar chaos investing 250 million for players and it is far more sustainable to go with youth. So you chose the wrong example

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[Vesper 30,175]

5 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Their best youth product was Müller and he is a low level player. 

 

ludicrous statement m8

smdh

it really is

you can dislike a player immensely, that is 100% fine

but to literally slag off his entire (and uber successful) is madness

25 assists, 12 goals this season in 3100 minutes, broke the Bundesliga single season assist record

462 goals produced  (235 goals, 227 assists) for club and country in the past 11 years, that is over 40 a year average for over a decade

100 caps, 24 major trophies, including a WC and CL (and 44 CL goals)

one of the top all time WC finals scorers

[killer1257 3,282]

ludicrous statement m8
smdh
it really is
you can dislike a player immensely, that is 100% fine
but to literally slag off his entire (and uber successful) is madness
25 assists, 12 goals this season in 3100 minutes, broke the Bundesliga single season assist record
462 goals produced  (235 goals, 227 assists) for club and country in the past 11 years, that is over 40 a year average for over a decade
100 caps, 24 major trophies, including a WC and CL (and 44 CL goals)
one of the top all time WC finals scorers

I love Müllers personality. He is a goofy guy, but if he was coming from Frankfurt youth team with his skill sets, Bayern would have never bought him. Many of his assists are just simple passes to Robbery and you pass a ball to Robben, it is a goal most of the times. Robben for me is the greatest Buli player of all time. Never seen someone better than Arjen.

I would rather have Oscar and Willian than Müller and that says a lot. I am not the only one in Germany that thinks he is not special. I know even Bayern fans that think he is nothing special. The only Bayern fans that really rate him, do love his personality so much that they think he is this iniesta level player.

When you watch Müller in his prime, you had Robben on the right wing and when Robben comes from the right, you at least have to double him, sometimes triple him. Same with Ribery on the left. So that means there is always space in the box for Müller who runs into the space because some other defenders and midfielders have to move out of their position. Many classic Müller goals are in the box when nobody marked him. Why did they not mark him? They forgot him and focused on Mandzukic Robben Ribery or this season Lewa. So of course there was always space for Müller to score a goal in the box. I am not the only one that does not think he is special. I would even say Mount has more skill sets than Müller. Mount at Bayern would have had the same career as Müller.

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[Jase 43,479]

 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

has been evident before. once the players enter the field they are like a ship without a captain. Azpi is just not a vocal leader. Rüdiger has leadership qualities but is a clown and does not back up his big mouth with performances. I could see Mount become a leader at some point, even though he is not a natural one. Maybe that is part of our defensive organisation problem. Some people just need to be told what to do, who to mark, where to run. If not every one just does what he wants and defensive errors happen bc of lack of communication/organisation

[Vesper 30,175]

2 hours ago, killer1257 said:

I love Müllers personality. He is a goofy guy, but if he was coming from Frankfurt youth team with his skill sets, Bayern would have never bought him. Many of his assists are just simple passes to Robbery and you pass a ball to Robben, it is a goal most of the times. Robben for me is the greatest Buli player of all time. Never seen someone better than Arjen.

I would rather have Oscar and Willian than Müller and that says a lot. I am not the only one in Germany that thinks he is not special. I know even Bayern fans that think he is nothing special. The only Bayern fans that really rate him, do love his personality so much that they think he is this iniesta level player.

When you watch Müller in his prime, you had Robben on the right wing and when Robben comes from the right, you at least have to double him, sometimes triple him. Same with Ribery on the left. So that means there is always space in the box for Müller who runs into the space because some other defenders and midfielders have to move out of their position. Many classic Müller goals are in the box when nobody marked him. Why did they not mark him? They forgot him and focused on Mandzukic Robben Ribery or this season Lewa. So of course there was always space for Müller to score a goal in the box. I am not the only one that does not think he is special. I would even say Mount has more skill sets than Müller. Mount at Bayern would have had the same career as Müller.

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profoundly disagree, I really do

the numbers, the trophies,, the sheer amount of all of them is staggering

and you are assuming that he did not LIFT UP the other players as much as they lifted him

its a two way street

also

here are Franck Ribéry's numbers in the 10 years with Muller

66 league goals in 10 years, 91 total, so basically 9 a year all comps, hardly a massive haul (Messi scored 91 goals in the calendar year 2012 alone)

 Ribéry was injured SO often, so Muller was often without him

Robben's numbers are better but even he came in at less than 10 league goals a year (almost, 9.9) and again, so often injured

 

an average of 16 or 17 league goals per year (8 or so goals each on pure average) TOTAL for both your superstar wingers and 23 per year all comps per year TOTAL are hardly the type of stat-stuffing production for Muller to have coasted and padded his rep and production off of

out of 20 years combined, they produced a grand total of 6 or 7 great years (mostly Robben) great seasons, Ribery never scored over 20 goals in a season (he only scored 148 top flight goals (102 league) in his entire 16 year club career, all comps )  Ribery only broke double digits in league goals 4 times in his entire career, with his all time high being 12, then one season at 11 and two at 10

Robben did twice (scored 20 goals all comps with Bayern), and indeed those were the only 2 seasons he scored 20 or more, all comps, his entire 19 year top flight club career, he only broke double digits in league goals 6 times with Bayern and once with PSV

I am NOT slagging them off at all, just showing that I think you are overstating their effect on him to a degree, especially when HALF of those 20 seasons were injury plagued ones between the 2, either one or even both at the same time

[Vesper 30,175]

Let me just set this out there

whether we get CL or not

here are the SEVEN people I blame for this semi-shitshow of a season (who play or manage)

 

1. Lampard himself, so so many tactical errors, formation errors, failure to coach defence and set pieces correctly, shit subs, etc, and it is NOT getting better in many of those areas

2. Kepa, ........doghsit, a £140m (wages, transfer fee, etc) pile of dogshit (it isn't Willy's fault he is now too old and is also shit at this point)

3,4,5,6  All four of the CB's, AC, Zouma, Rudiger (wtf is wrong with him??) and Tomori absolutely shambolic, the lot of 'em for most of the year, NONE are good enough

7 Emerson (not the most obvious choice, but he is literally the worst player on the 25 man roster, save for the GK'ers (and Bats, who doesn't play at all for ages), and his FAIL has forced us to use a far too often pile of poo (only when he is played there) Azpi at LB FAR too many times, when Alonso cannot have a go. Azpi at LB almost always crushes us on offence against low block teams, and often against better teams too, although sometimes his defence alone can carry the day

 

the rest all have positives and negatives, but those 6 players, and Lampard, have been overall PISS POOR far too often and they have fucking cost us 20 plus points in the league alone far beyond the other players on the roster

 

 

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

has been evident before. once the players enter the field they are like a ship without a captain. Azpi is just not a vocal leader. Rüdiger has leadership qualities but is a clown and does not back up his big mouth with performances. I could see Mount become a leader at some point, even though he is not a natural one. Maybe that is part of our defensive organisation problem. Some people just need to be told what to do, who to mark, where to run. If not every one just does what he wants and defensive errors happen bc of lack of communication/organisation

Could explain why we seem to be all in for Declan Rice.

[communicate 2,703]

7 hours ago, killer1257 said:

I love Müllers personality. He is a goofy guy, but if he was coming from Frankfurt youth team with his skill sets, Bayern would have never bought him. Many of his assists are just simple passes to Robbery and you pass a ball to Robben, it is a goal most of the times. Robben for me is the greatest Buli player of all time. Never seen someone better than Arjen.

I would rather have Oscar and Willian than Müller and that says a lot. I am not the only one in Germany that thinks he is not special. I know even Bayern fans that think he is nothing special. The only Bayern fans that really rate him, do love his personality so much that they think he is this iniesta level player.

When you watch Müller in his prime, you had Robben on the right wing and when Robben comes from the right, you at least have to double him, sometimes triple him. Same with Ribery on the left. So that means there is always space in the box for Müller who runs into the space because some other defenders and midfielders have to move out of their position. Many classic Müller goals are in the box when nobody marked him. Why did they not mark him? They forgot him and focused on Mandzukic Robben Ribery or this season Lewa. So of course there was always space for Müller to score a goal in the box. I am not the only one that does not think he is special. I would even say Mount has more skill sets than Müller. Mount at Bayern would have had the same career as Müller.

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Quite surprised that you have such a low regard for muller. I haven't watched him in years but I watched him against leverkusen after the restart, I thought he was excellent. He is not skillfull but he can feed the frontline, occupy space that is vacated by the winger or striker and press hard. I personally love this kind of no 10. 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Could explain why we seem to be all in for Declan Rice.

I've seen multiple articles explaining our scouting system and personality or character traits seems to be quite high on the list.

Declan has character all right

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[NikkiCFC 8,319]

On 12/07/2020 at 8:22 PM, NikkiCFC said:

Azpi Zouma Rudiger Alonso played just two games? 

Liverpool and Everton back to back wins before the break. And two clean sheets.

Wonder why Lampard did not continue with them...

Thank you. Clearly our best defensive line. Another clean sheet. Don't know why he changed it after lockdown. 

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Thank you. Clearly our best defensive line. Another clean sheet. Don't know why he changed it after lockdown. 

I know we have been shit defensively of late but it's Norwich. Let's see how we do if he plays the same duo in the last 3 games. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

41 minutes ago, Jason said:

I know we have been shit defensively of late but it's Norwich. Let's see how we do if he plays the same duo in the last 3 games. 

They have been better then they had for the entire season today and we did not even give them a sniff at goal. This was a highly concentrated defensive performance. We have conceded against all kinds of shit teams. We definitely have conceded tons of chances even vs poor teams like Watford and Villa. But today we completely shut out a team. I think this deserves praise even if it as just Norwich.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Magic Lamps said:

They have been better then they had for the entire season today and we did not even give them a sniff at goal. This was a highly concentrated defensive performance. We have conceded against all kinds of shit teams. We definitely have conceded tons of chances even vs poor teams like Watford and Villa. But today we completely shut out a team. I think this deserves praise even if it as just Norwich.

Plenty of our defensive combinations have had games this season where they kept the opposition out completely and then looked like clowns in other games. So until we see some actual consistency, I wouldn't praise them just yet, especially when it was only against Norwich today. 

[El P. 1,354]

I think pivot of Kovačić and Jorginho gave us stability and balance and less job for defense. Yeah, Mount and Barkley give us more flair, but with defense this fragile and without Kante we should really force those two to play.

Azpi-Zouma-Rudiger-Alonso really looks least bad of our all defensive combinations.

We created many chances, so I think we are set offensively too, we were really lacking a bit of luck to score one of so many chances created. Giroud, Pulisic and Willian are undisputed in this moment if you ask me.

If Frank is going to play this 4-3-3 formation, he should stick with this players, only question is if we play RLC, Barkley or Mount as most advanced midfielder.

[Special Juan 28,141]

It was a shit performance again and I just want us to get top 4 and just forget this season.

FL has a shit ton of work to do when that final whistle goes.

[Jase 43,479]

25 minutes ago, Mana said:

I am still fuming (although not as much anymore) from that Sheffield Utd defeat. We would have been 1 point from confirming top 4. We somehow have to find 4 points against Liverpool and Wolves.

Sheffield United are a good side, losing to them can happen although the manner of the loss stinks.

If anything, it's the defeats against West Ham (twice!), Bournemouth (plus that stupid 2-2 draw), Newcastle etc that could well cost us. Would have been home and dry by now had we picked up even only half of the points available from those games.