Jase 43,479 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Tomo said: However we knew we were getting some of this when we appointed Frank, we'll get the promise but we'll also get the mistakes, all things considered if you were told we'd go into game 38 needing a point for top 4 with a cup final against a vastly inferior side to come, we would have all accepted it. But here's the thing - playing the back 3 has never worked for us in consecutive games this season. Every time Lampard has played it, he did it for specific matchups and just because it worked in the first games, he persisted with the same system for the following games even though the system does not match up well against the opposition. Why? Why stick with it just because it worked? Why stick with it when Lampard used it only for specific matchups? Making mistakes once or twice is fine but this has been committed far too many times. And let's save that last bit until after Sunday because there's every chance we'll still blow it. Fernando and Laylabelle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mana said: If we go to next season, with NO defensive coach and/or no new defensive players... We should write off next season. No fecking way we can challenge for top 4 with that same defence and GK. We are hanging on by a thread now. Despite the defense and keeper issues we're one point away from getting top 4 with Tammy/Giroud and Willian but we won't get it with Werner, Ziyech and possibly Havertz? Ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jason said: But here's the thing - playing the back 3 has never worked for us in consecutive games this season. Every time Lampard has played it, he did it for specific matchups and just because it worked in the first games, he persisted with the same system for the following games even though the system does not match up well against the opposition. Why? Why stick with it just because it worked? Why stick with it when Lampard used it only for specific matchups? Making mistakes once or twice is fine but this has been committed far too many times. And let's save that last bit until after Sunday because there's every chance we'll still blow it. Even if the worst happens on Sunday we've still massively hit above fan expectations. Go back to August, people were claiming we'll be lucky to finish top half (and even claimed they'd be happy with it aslong as we promoted youth, lol). Fernando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mana said: You DO know we had a helping hand many times this season right? You should be as happy as anyone because you wrote off our chances of even making Europe and had us being around where Arsenal are. Fernando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoSalah 9,104 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Vybz Kartel said: Personally I think he needs to be sacked for Pochettino, his a average manager at most imo. He will never really take us anywhere because he can't coach defending. I think no top 4 - it could be something the club looks at but probably highly unlikely. You want to give managers time but again, 12 points clear 6 months ago to relying on a last week fixture it doesnt look good. We sacked Di Matteo sitting 2nd, sacked Carlo when he finished second etc so if it happened, although I doubt it will, you would not exactly be surprised with the way football is. I know its a different time and squad but to blow that 12 points regardless of your manager in the manner we did looks bad. I still think we will make it v Wolves and win the FA cup but it covers the cracks a bit. I know we lost Hazard in the summer but the definitive thing from this season that has caused us a lot of grief is the backline. We werent particularly clinical under Sarri either so the conversion while its been a big issue isnt as bad as the defences inconsistency and obvious signs of regress imo. I do agree with what Tomo said in this thread top 4 and a potential cup win isnt the worst season and weve seen the promise, the good, the bad but it cannot be the same next season in terms of losing 12 or 13 PL games or losing such a gap. Thats why I think we will give Lampard next season to improve on this one. Vybz Kartel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,727 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Tomo said: Even if the worst happens on Sunday we've still massively hit above fan expectations. Go back to August, people were claiming we'll be lucky to finish top half (and even claimed they'd be happy with it aslong as we promoted youth, lol). Which is a good thing but to lose it on the last day with a run of silly results be hard to take. We had a gap..we were comfy now suddenly down to the wire in the space of a few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tomo said: Even if the worst happens on Sunday we've still massively hit above fan expectations. Go back to August, people were claiming we'll be lucky to finish top half (and even claimed they'd be happy with it aslong as we promoted youth, lol). That's pre-season expectations. You can always adjust them as you go along and having been in the Top 4 for pretty much all season, it would be a major disappointment if we were to crash out of it on Sunday. Laylabelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,727 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Jason said: That's pre-season expectations. You can always adjust them as you go along and having been in the Top 4 for pretty much all season, it would be a major disappointment if we were to crash out of it on Sunday. Exactly. Couple games ago we had a 5 point gap. Now we don't. Its the manner in which its been lost. Not so much today but Sheffield and West Ham. Shouldn't be defending like that still at this stage! And Palace couldve ended worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jason said: That's pre-season expectations. You can always adjust them as you go along and having been in the Top 4 for pretty much all season, it would be a major disappointment if we were to crash out of it on Sunday. Im not arguing it will be a crushing disappointment but at the same time we can't go overboard on squad bashing and lose sight of the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,727 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 We are just lucky other results have fallen our way cause we could easily be out the running aleady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mana said: I should be happy? I should be happy that we crashed out of top 4...but because it's "above fan expectations" I should be happy. Also I told everyone - that I'm going to treat FL as I would with ANY other manager. I don't care if he's a rookie. ANY other season we would be around 8th place. Hold on, are you saying you're holding Frank to the same expectations you are to the manager's who's managed the old guard in their prime? Blue Armour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, Tomo said: Im not arguing it will be a crushing disappointment but at the same time we can't go overboard on squad bashing and lose sight of the bigger picture. It's hard to look at the bigger picture when we've been taking one step forward and then two steps backward for at least a good few months now. Laylabelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jason said: It's hard to look at the bigger picture when we've been taking one step forward and then two steps backward for at least a good few months now. Well I guess it's personal perception, for me this season has always been a evolutionary one (that's why I've at times been downbeat after wins and the opposite in defeat). If this was about getting top 4 at all costs we'd have brought back Jose and shithoused it. Yes there's a lot of work that needs doing to get us back challenging for the league (including tactically from Lampard's perspective) but I've seen more than enough promise to make me hopeful going forward. Blue Armour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,727 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Let's hope can sort out the huge defence problems for next season.. 54 goals against... you have to go down to Southampton in 12th with 59 to find the next highest. Thats shite. Only 7 teams have a worse count... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Lamps 11,692 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jason said: It's hard to look at the bigger picture when we've been taking one step forward and then two steps backward for at least a good few months now. Have we tho? I think we took a massive step forward with the performance vs Utd and today a loss va a far superior wide was always in the cards. You always criticized that our offensive dynamism has gone lost during the season but we have rediscovered some of it lately. Become more versatile too. Today’s loss was more down to an inferiority of individual quality than a Regress in development Alabama and Blue Armour 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Tomo said: Well I guess it's personal perception, for me this season has always been a evolutionary one (that's why I've at times been downbeat after wins and the opposite in defeat). If this was about getting top 4 at all costs we'd have brought back Jose and shithoused it. Yes there's a lot of work that needs doing to get us back challenging for the league (including tactically from Lampard's perspective) but I've seen more than enough promise to make me hopeful going forward. Even if it is an evolutionary season or whatever you want to call it, it does not mean some form of expectations should not be expected. We are still Chelsea FC and have not even fallen to the depths of Arsenal. I have said this before and I will say it again, I do not care if it is the players but if Lampard does not solve our defensive problems next season - be it from set pieces or just our general defending from open play - it will get him the sack and it could be his downfall as a manager long term wise. Our tactical organization at times this season has been abysmal. Different type of manager but compared to someone like Conte, we can be so easy to play against. You have players running around like headless chickens. You have players who look like they are being asked to do things that they are not good at - and then Lampard punishing them by dropping them, ironically. In general, it looks as if Lampard just asks the players to go out there and score more goals than the opposition. Vybz Kartel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said: Have we tho? I think we took a massive step forward with the performance vs Utd and today a loss va a far superior wide was always in the cards. You always criticized that our offensive dynamism has gone lost during the season but we have rediscovered some of it lately. Become more versatile too. Today’s loss was more down to an inferiority of individual quality than a Regress in development Read the whole post again. I never said it was only this game or the last. We have been yo-yo-ing between the good and bad for a number of months now and the same mistakes are getting made over and over and over again without anyone seemingly learning from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mana said: Errr...yeah? He took the Chelsea job. He's not ready to take over Chelsea and it's showing. Hazard is gone - I get - fine. But how can our defence be THIS bad? Last season our defence is one of the best in the country, now this season we are one of the worst. Are you saying we badly miss David Luiz?? That's ludicrous, how can a team with not a single world class player fresh from losing their game changer and trying to completely overhaul their style of play be expected to reach the same targets a team with about 7 international captains and finished article managers hit? Yes Lampard has rough edges he needs to fix but the reality is we don't have the squad at present to be doing better than a top 4 challenge and expecting more because "we're Chelsea" is the exact type of unrealistic expectations we use to laugh hysterically at Liverpool fans for having pre Klopp. Regarding the defense, we were one of "the best" last season because Sarri played risk averse possession football after Arsenal cut us open about 6 times in 15 minutes, and people spent the season moaning about how boring it was, with this squad there's a trade off, Sarri decided to master the possession bit first whereas Lamps wants to get the attack firing first, the end result is roughly the same one-way or another, we challenge for the top four as that's where this current squad is at and it's the ceiling. Blue Armour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo 21,751 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Jason said: Even if it is an evolutionary season or whatever you want to call it, it does not mean some form of expectations should not be expected. We are still Chelsea FC and have not even fallen to the depths of Arsenal. I have said this before and I will say it again, I do not care if it is the players but if Lampard does not solve our defensive problems next season - be it from set pieces or just our general defending from open play - it will get him the sack and it could be his downfall as a manager long term wise. Our tactical organization at times this season has been abysmal. Different type of manager but compared to someone like Conte, we can be so easy to play against. You have players running around like headless chickens. You have players who look like they are being asked to do things that they are not good at - and then Lampard punishing them by dropping them, ironically. In general, it looks as if Lampard just asks the players to go out there and score more goals than the opposition. We're just basically saying the same thing in different ways. Ofcourse there has to be improvement next season, especially with the backing he's getting and (hopefully) a keeper of his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiCFC 8,516 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Most goals conceded since 1996/1997 season. 55 back then, now 54 but we have one more game. PL before had 42 games... So this is our worst defensive season in the last around 30 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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