Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[didierforever 7,349]

when did I say anything about marquee signings? I said Ferguson bought players every summer to improve the team. Vidic, Evra, and Van Der Saar was basically a reconstruction of their entire back-line that stuck for the next 6 years. Price means nothing. That's starters you are signing.

Case in point for us: Matic wasn't a marquee signing, but he's our most important player. We need to keep making those sorts of signings and not just sign guaranteed backups like Begovic and Falcao. Players actually capable of contributing to a season is what Ferguson signed.

Every summer you need to get at least one player that can win himself a starting spot. We've yet to do that.

P.S. Ronaldo was an 18 year old bought for 13m in 2003, which if adjusted for today's prices will be 20m or so, what we paid for Oscar, who in one years time became a starter. So don't just brush that aside as nothing. If we were to go out and purchase Varane right now, you'd dismiss that as a nothing buy because he would not be a starter this year but next year?

in 04-05, united needed those signings and a new back line and hence bought those players. there next big defender signing was 6 seasons later in smalling. how did you even compare to what i was saying in my first post. in 26 years, of course he will have to sign players and recontruct the whole team. but once, they had their defence, he did not go about "improving it" until rio's age started catching up to him.

in 09-10, united bought : obertan, owen, valencia, pogba, diouf. which one of these was "improving" them drastically?

10-11 - smalling, chicha, bebe, linsgaard - which one of them could win a starting spot?

these were all back up signings.

ps - how are you comparing varane and CR here? varane currently is one of the best CBs in the world. who was CR then? and i dont think that its fair to linearly extrapolate CR's transfer fee. how many highly rated 18 year old have gone for a fee of 20mil? walcott and ox were as hyped up. i think when talking about teenage players, the market has not inflated as much. even lukaku who was considered to be one of the best prospects in the world went for 12mil.

its once these kids break thru and put in 5 good performances that all hell break loose these days, and they are all suddenly the second coming of jesus.

[The Skipper 20,609]

26mil plus moses?

so about 35 pounds for a 3rd CB?

You need to look a bit more long term than that...

[RhesusReus 219]

in 04-05, united needed those signings and a new back line and hence bought those players. there next big defender signing was 6 seasons later in smalling. how did you even compare to what i was saying in my first post. in 26 years, of course he will have to sign players and recontruct the whole team. but once, they had their defence, he did not go about "improving it" until rio's age started catching up to him.

in 09-10, united bought : obertan, owen, valencia, pogba, diouf. which one of these was "improving" them drastically?

10-11 - smalling, chicha, bebe, linsgaard - which one of them could win a starting spot?

these were all back up signings.

ps - how are you comparing varane and CR here? varane currently is one of the best CBs in the world. who was CR then? and i dont think that its fair to linearly extrapolate CR's transfer fee. how many highly rated 18 year old have gone for a fee of 20mil? walcott and ox were as hyped up. i think when talking about teenage players, the market has not inflated as much. even lukaku who was considered to be one of the best prospects in the world went for 12mil.

its once these kids break thru and put in 5 good performances that all hell break loose these days, and they are all suddenly the second coming of jesus.

first of all, i'm not extrapolating. I'm adjusting for market inflation. in those days, 13m was worth 20m nowadays. And Ronaldo wasn't a no body, he was a highly regarded prospect having been playing for Portuguese national team since under 15s.

second of all. Just because the players didn't work out doesn't mean they weren't bought to improve the squad. Ferguson still bought them. He didn't just sit around like you guys are suggesting. He kept adding players to the squad. Them not working out is his failure.

We aren't buying those type of players that are coming in challenging for starting spots. Begovic is not going to contribute to the season unless Courtois is injured. And Falcao is not going to contribute unless Costa and Remy are injured.

Now, if we had bought a CM, that would be a different story. I don't want us to buy a defender or a striker just for he sake of buying some one. We need a midfielder. We aren't getting one.

[didierforever 7,349]

You need to look a bit more long term than that...

currently we have JT-GC-zouma.

if JT retires after this season, stones is 100% NOT the answer. we will be buying an experienced CB. GC-stones at this moment looks bad. i would not want to play norwich at home with them.

considering we buy mr. X, next year. do you think jose would be willing to simply turnover our whole defensive partnership in a single season? i honestly doubt that knowing how jose likes to set up his teams.

as far as i see it, we will be buying a 20mil (max) worth player for almost double his value who would be our 3rd CB for the next 2-3 years atleast while in short term losing a perfectly fine squad player. and this is despite the fact that we have a 20 year old zouma who has already shown to be BRILLIANT in the chances he has got.

whats worse is, if we are actually going to pay 35mil for stones, we might as well put in 15mil more and buy not just someone who has potential or ceiling but someone who already is almost WC - varane.

[illmatic 901]

No news of Witsel, no news of Pedro, no news of anything. I'll go crazy. Where are my transfer rumors!!!

[The Skipper 20,609]

currently we have JT-GC-zouma.

if JT retires after this season, stones is 100% NOT the answer. we will be buying an experienced CB. GC-stones at this moment looks bad. i would not want to play norwich at home with them.

considering we buy mr. X, next year. do you think jose would be willing to simply turnover our whole defensive partnership in a single season? i honestly doubt that knowing how jose likes to set up his teams.

as far as i see it, we will be buying a 20mil (max) worth player for almost double his value who would be our 3rd CB for the next 2-3 years atleast while in short term losing a perfectly fine squad player. and this is despite the fact that we have a 20 year old zouma who has already shown to be BRILLIANT in the chances he has got.

whats worse is, if we are actually going to pay 35mil for stones, we might as well put in 15mil more and buy not just someone who has potential or ceiling but someone who already is almost WC - varane.

I think you're writing Stones off far too quickly. How do you know that Stones wouldn't step up if JT retired after next season?

And we could still buy an experienced CB instead, but who do you suggest? There aren't many quality ones out there. In a couple of years we'll be in the same predicament - obviously hopefully Zouma has developed by then but we'd still need to find him a long term partner and John Stones, if he continues to develop as well, would be a very ideal partner for Happy. Why not get him now and get him to be under JT's tutelage for a season or two?

He plays with maturity beyond his years.

The quoted price for Stones atm is a £26m bid from us and I've seen that Everton might hold out for £30m. Not sure where you're getting £35m from.

Look at it this way - if the club are looking to spend £25m+ on Stones you can guarantee that he'll get lots of game time.

[didierforever 7,349]

first of all, i'm not extrapolating. I'm adjusting for market inflation. in those days, 13m was worth 20m nowadays. And Ronaldo wasn't a no body, he was a highly regarded prospect having been playing for Portuguese national team since under 15s.

second of all. Just because the players didn't work out doesn't mean they weren't bought to improve the squad. Ferguson still bought them. He didn't just sit around like you guys are suggesting. He kept adding players to the squad. Them not working out is his failure.

We aren't buying those type of players that are coming in challenging for starting spots. Begovic is not going to contribute to the season unless Courtois is injured. And Falcao is not going to contribute unless Costa and Remy are injured.

Now, if we had bought a CM, that would be a different story. I don't want us to buy a defender or a striker just for he sake of buying some one. We need a midfielder. We aren't getting one.

lukaku was as highly regarded as CR was at 18. (infact lukaku was 17). yet he was sold for 12mil. you might be adjusting the market for inflation but that does not mean every transfer that happened should be adjusted. some of them were at their max and would have been for the same value even in today's market. that was my whole point.

i have given you examples. tell me which of those players were supposed to be fighting for a first team spot. it was not just that "it dint work out". i am sorry but which of smalling, bebe, chicha or linsgaard was supposed to set united's season on fire?

we are not buying cos we already are pretty set in our starting 11 and even in depth.

you wont find a better combo of a 1st striker in costa and 2nd striker in remy.

i would personally love oscar to be sold when he is still considered as a prospect, but jose has made his stance very clear on that. he expects oscar to have a season like hazard had last year. hence keeping the same trio since willian and hazard both had brilliant season. cuadrado had a poor second half, but people forget that his whole "second half" of the season was 343 minutes. i am glad jose is not judging juan on that. also, we have better cover in moses who was very good for stoke whenever not injured. just see mancity vs stoke to see how good.

we had one of the best back 5. plus looking to add stones. more than adeqaute cover in zouma and luis/newLB.

matic-cesc pick themselves up. again, i would love for cesc to be shifted to no.10 or us to go 4-3-3 while buying vidal/witsel, but that would again mean oscar being dropped.

the only missing player for me would be a better back-up to cesc and matic, i totally agree with you on that. but there are 40 days left, lets hope we do get that player. if not, i still would not feel bad, cos mikel and rambo are decent back ups who can do a job when required to.

also,lastly,who said that SAF just sat around doing nothing. did you read the post that i quoted of essien19's .http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/11895-general-transfer-talk/?p=1119223

"Mourinho is doing a Ferguson, other Clubs spend more, Chelsea wins more, simple as that. Begovic and Falcao are already here, maybe Stones and Witsel will come, that isn't too bad."

he says that stones and witsel will come. and thus i agreed, that this is exactly what even SAF would do. no big names but adequate cover.

[didierforever 7,349]

I think you're writing Stones off far too quickly. How do you know that Stones wouldn't step up if JT retired after next season?

And we could still buy an experienced CB instead, but who do you suggest? There aren't many quality ones out there. In a couple of years we'll be in the same predicament - obviously hopefully Zouma has developed by then but we'd still need to find him a long term partner and John Stones, if he continues to develop as wel, would be a very ideal partner for Happy. Why not get him now and get him to be under JT's tutelage for a season or two?

He plays with maturity beyond his years.

The quoted price for Stones atm is a £26m bid from us and I've seen that Everton might hold out for £30m. Not sure where you're getting £35m from.

Look at it this way - if the club are looking to spend £25m+ on Stones you can guarantee that he'll get lots of game time.

fair enough.

the 35mil i was quoting is to someone who said 26mil +moses - which makes it as a ball park figure of that.

the only point i dont agree on is both stones and zouma developing. defenders need to make mistakes to learn. every defender has. where does zouma get his game time? will even stones really get his gametime despite the fee. i mean zouma was brilliant against city and then dropped like a sack of potatoes for GC (who to be fair himself was very good after the spurs shambles).

like i said "fair enough" on the scenario that you have given me. but something like this is as likely to happen, zouma gets very less playing time and still is as "raw". and then he gets sucked into our "loan system" next year in search of gametime. stones is relegated to the bench for the "experienced" players. and which affects his own development.

currently, i would like this money to be spent on a CM rather than stones (IF there are any restrictions, which i feel may really be there after listening to jose's comments).

[iseah100 5,612]

Stones and Aranguiz/Witsel and the transfer window is done.

[didierforever 7,349]

Stones and Aranguiz/Witsel and the transfer window is done.

baba too.. since luis is off.

[iseah100 5,612]

baba too.. since luis is off.

Never seen him play. But sure!

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

Stones, Charles Aranguiz, Rahman Baba and hopefully a new winger and we are good to go.

[Oscar 441]

Simeone picked up Savic. Good transfer window for Atletico.

This team might be better than 2 seasons ago...

Definitely the best team in terms of transfers this summer so far.

[yum 15]

Simeone picked up Savic. Good transfer window for Atletico.

This team might be better than 2 seasons ago...

Definitely the best team in terms of transfers this summer so far.

That's an exaggeration. Simeone and Atletico are wonderful, but they've lost Costa, Courtois, Filipe Luis, Turan, Miranda since the 13-14 season. Not forgetting Diego and Villa.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Savic for 10m and Suarez is terrible deal IMO. One of worst transfers from Simeone.

[Oscar 441]

That's an exaggeration. Simeone and Atletico are wonderful, but they've lost Costa, Courtois, Filipe Luis, Turan, Miranda since the 13-14 season. Not forgetting Diego and Villa.

Last season's barcelona would of won the title in 2013.

Atletico 2013

26 goals allowed

Atletico 2014

29 goals allowed

*Difference: Thibo returned to Chelsea, Luis was sold and Miranda missed a good chunk of the season

That was a -3 difference.

Atletico 2015

Moya

Juanfran-Godin-Gimenez-luis

Gabi-Saul

Koke-Vietto-Griezmann

Jackson

Bench: oblak, savic, suarez, Torres, Torres, Tiago, Carrasco, Garcia, etc.

Atletico has the best young core in Spain.

Oblak, gimenez, saul, koke, griezman, vietto, Correa, Torres and Carrasco...

This team has a fantastic starting 11 and quality on the bench, unlike like last season

[RhesusReus 219]

Last season's barcelona would of won the title in 2013.

Atletico 2013

26 goals allowed

Atletico 2014

29 goals allowed

*Difference: Thibo returned to Chelsea, Luis was sold and Miranda missed a good chunk of the season

That was a -3 difference.

Atletico 2015

Moya

Juanfran-Godin-Gimenez-luis

Gabi-Saul

Koke-Vietto-Griezmann

Jackson

Bench: oblak, savic, suarez, Torres, Torres, Tiago, Carrasco, Garcia, etc.

Atletico has the best young core in Spain.

Oblak, gimenez, saul, koke, griezman, vietto, Correa, Torres and Carrasco...

no they wouldn't have. they had 12 points less. 90 points in 2013-14; 78 points in 2014-15.

[Oscar 441]

no they wouldn't have. they had 12 points less. 90 points in 2013-14; 78 points in 2014-15.

Goals allowed....

[Unionjack 7,531]

I know for whatever unmentioned reasons whether its the club pulling the purse strings tight due to new stadium being built or some other daft reason Mous not going into the market for upgrades, how would the Bartomeu win effect them transfer wise? Ive seen theyre keeping Turan.

[didierforever 7,349]

Last season's barcelona would of won the title in 2013.

Atletico 2013

26 goals allowed

Atletico 2014

29 goals allowed

*Difference: Thibo returned to Chelsea, Luis was sold and Miranda missed a good chunk of the season

That was a -3 difference.

Atletico 2015

Moya

Juanfran-Godin-Gimenez-luis

Gabi-Saul

Koke-Vietto-Griezmann

Jackson

Bench: oblak, savic, suarez, Torres, Torres, Tiago, Carrasco, Garcia, etc.

Atletico has the best young core in Spain.

Oblak, gimenez, saul, koke, griezman, vietto, Correa, Torres and Carrasco...

This team has a fantastic starting 11 and quality on the bench, unlike like last season

he has repeatedly said that koke will play as a CM.

on paper they have a much more exciting team than 13/14. but what that 13/14 had was spirit, character and fight. they have literally revamped their attack with carrasco, vietto, martinez, even antoine and jimenez have been there for 1 season and correa has not played yet cos of his surgery.

all in all, the jury will be out there on them. i think they take some time for gelling.