Koke

[Jase 43,479]

Might be the case but that was not the issue here. I just wanted a simple answer to the question in my first post instead of talking about bar-room wisdoms.

Well, I gave you the answer before you dragged it further than it needed to, smartass.

[Amblève. 4,995]

Well, I gave you the answer before you dragged it further than it needed to, smartass.

It was more of a bar-room saying than an informative answer, thoug, dude. You can't really deny that

[Jase 43,479]

It was more of a bar-room saying than an informative answer, thoug, dude. You can't really deny that

A matter of intepretation. So, it's your fault, dude.

[Amblève. 4,995]

A matter of intepretation. So, it's your fault, dude.

I'll leave here now. No wonder you're a cats-only person^^

[Jase 43,479]

I'll leave here now. No wonder you're a cats-only person^^

What do you expect? Cats are more loyal than humans.

[Joker10 946]

Well, Simeone is no Mourinho, is he?

Sanchez is playing regularly and he has run out of steam since his fine form in the beginning. Wenger still plays him, and he played Ozil to when he was struggling.

Carlo still plays Bale, eventhough most Real Madrid fan are ready to cut his head off.

Koke has proven a lot under Simeone, no manager is going to bench such player because of bad form. It is just impracticable to do so, and short sighted. You risk the player trust, and dent the player confidence and security.

Every manager does so.

On Koke

I am going through my Mac and all of the latest Atletico games i have downloaded, and if my memory is correct here i would evaluate each of his game:

If anyone disagree let me know becuase how i remember those games. It should be said that Alti have looked back in recent months and i did not watch Alti game to be critical of Koke so if he had a bad game i probably didn't notice.

Vs Barca early Jan- No impact

Vs Real Madrdi also in Jan- Thought he did well. Torres turned back the time in that game, with his 2 goals. Griez and Suarez was not bad either.

Vs Granada- No impact, don't think he was anywhere near best on the pitch. Gabi and Turan performance i can remember it was pretty good, and Manduz penalty is most i can remember in that game.

Several games he did not play, was he injured i can't remember? I thought he did get injured against Real, can't recall completely.

Vs Sevilla- He came on as a sub

Vs Valencia- Scored the only goal in the game.

[nadavTKL 1,787]

If im thinking about this option seriously, i feel he could be a huge signing. Koke is something like Oscar in his functioning on the pitch, but a lot more polished, and just better. Koke-Matic-Cesc could on paper dominate almost every game, this could also end the use of Ramires in the big games. Koke is as smart on the ball as Cesc and Hazard, and he would allow Cesc to push to the 10 role more often, becuase unlike Oscar he has the size to be a CM. Like i said in the "Summer Window" thread, I would have liked to see another explosive and smart winger like Hazard in the team, but Koke, who isnt an explosive attaking player, could might add more than any other kind of player.

[manpe 10,855]

How much would this guy cost approximately? Is it between the 20-40M£ realm, or are we talking Torres price?

[nadavTKL 1,787]

According to reports he has a 60m euros release clause (44m in pounds today).

[Oscar 441]

If im thinking about this option seriously, i feel he could be a huge signing. Koke is something like Oscar in his functioning on the pitch, but a lot more polished, and just better. Koke-Matic-Cesc could on paper dominate almost every game, this could also end the use of Ramires in the big games. Koke is as smart on the ball as Cesc and Hazard, and he would allow Cesc to push to the 10 role more often, becuase unlike Oscar he has the size to be a CM. Like i said in the "Summer Window" thread, I would have liked to see another explosive and smart winger like Hazard in the team, but Koke, who isnt an explosive attaking player, could might add more than any other kind of player.

Question is would Jose use a midfield trio of Cesc-matic -koke in big games...

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Question is would Jose use a midfield trio of Cesc-matic -koke in big games...

The quastion is always if we can control the game and keep the ball good enough, when Jose feels he can trust the team to do it good enough, he'll stop changing our line up and approach dramatically in the big games. With Koke instead of Oscar i think it could be the final change we need to be that proactive team we all want to see.

[Oscar 441]

The quastion is always if we can control the game and keep the ball good enough, when Jose feels he can trust the team to do it good enough, he'll stop changing our line up and approach dramatically in the big games. With Koke instead of Oscar i think it could be the final change we need to be that proactive team we all want to see.

Control? against big teams?

Or park the bus and counter sometimes?

Koke would replace cesc and another physical cm would replace oscar. You can have either cuadrado/willian doing the dirty work on the right side.

[manpe 10,855]

From the times I've seen Koke I think he's well equipped to play alongside Matic. And he's good enough defensively not to be replaced with Ramires or Mikel in the so called big games. That would simply be our best midfield line-up in any circmustances. I think I am one of those guys who prefers Koke to Pogba. He seems to be like an all-round midfielder who is smart and mature enough to play in any role.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Control? against big teams?

Or park the bus and counter sometimes?

Koke would replace cesc and another physical cm would replace oscar. You can have either cuadrado/willian doing the dirty work on the right side.

Define big team.

I think that having such a midfield would bring a new mentality to our game - an element of tiki taka (maybe not quite barca level) to our game. Koke has similarities to Xavi. I think supporter did a good post on this a couple of pages back, but nonetheless; I believe this is the next step we're looking for: A Jose team not just respected, but loved too. Will also raise the standards of English football in the long run.

Midfield as I see it in normal circumstances:

----Matic

Koke./RLC Cesc

Which is quite similar to Busquets-Rakitic/Xavi - Iniesta

However, if we find ourselves being pressed out of the game Arsenal style we could always go back to Chelsea's bread and butter of

Matic - Zouma

RLC/Cesc/Koke

To tighten up and physicalise the midfield. You know, like at Barca where I seriously doubt we could beat them at their own game.

[didierforever 7,349]

Control? against big teams?

Or park the bus and counter sometimes?

Koke would replace cesc and another physical cm would replace oscar. You can have either cuadrado/willian doing the dirty work on the right side.

did we park the bus against spurs in both the PL matches? against arsenal? against united (united might seems so but dont think that was what we had planned. cesc and oscar had a poor match and left matic too much to do).

even pool at anfield was a good normal game. it was after the spurs drubbing at the new years that we have "parked the bus" in big games (except city but that is understandable) and a lot of it is down the jose's trust in the players we have.

[Oscar 441]

did we park the bus against spurs in both the PL matches? against arsenal? against united (united might seems so but dont think that was what we had planned. cesc and oscar had a poor match and left matic too much to do).

even pool at anfield was a good normal game. it was after the spurs drubbing at the new years that we have "parked the bus" in big games (except city but that is understandable) and a lot of it is down the jose's trust in the players we have.

Don't consider spurs to be a big team and arsenal.

United, the game was very conservative on both sides... However, I meant more european games like barcelona, madrid and munich.

[Oscar 441]

Define big team.

I think that having such a midfield would bring a new mentality to our game - an element of tiki taka (maybe not quite barca level) to our game. Koke has similarities to Xavi. I think supporter did a good post on this a couple of pages back, but nonetheless; I believe this is the next step we're looking for: A Jose team not just respected, but loved too. Will also raise the standards of English football in the long run.

Midfield as I see it in normal circumstances:

----Matic

Koke./RLC Cesc

Which is quite similar to Busquets-Rakitic/Xavi - Iniesta

However, if we find ourselves being pressed out of the game Arsenal style we could always go back to Chelsea's bread and butter of

Matic - Zouma

RLC/Cesc/Koke

To tighten up and physicalise the midfield. You know, like at Barca where I seriously doubt we could beat them at their own game.

Matic is more of a destroyer...

Busquets is the best short passing cm in the world. Rakitic is not like koke at all for barcelona. Rakitic as someone else mentioned does all the donkey work for barcelona in the midfield. Iniesta and cesc could not be anymore different.

Having a pivot of matic-koke with cesc in the n10 role would allow teams to attack the middle a lot easier on the counters. None of the three are particularly fast and cesc wouldn't be able to hold up pressing in the n10 role that Jose requires. If this was a different manager, it would make sense, but not Jose Mourinho.

If anything, I can see this in big games

Matic-Koke

Ramires-willian-hazard

Ramires can cover for ivan on the right side and allow willian to press all day long, giving hazard and costa the main outlets scoring goals in general play.

[didierforever 7,349]

Don't consider spurs to be a big team and arsenal.

United, the game was very conservative on both sides... However, I meant more european games like barcelona, madrid and munich.

those 3 are head and shoulders and levels over other teams. to expect us to play like we normally do is downright unrealistic with a backline of a 34 year old JT and an average GC/20 year old zouma flanked by iva. trying to go head to head against those teams would be folly.